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Old 11-01-2018, 11:19 PM   #1
billr
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Default '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Alrighty, I will end this with a real question or two, but will start with the history.

Problems started some months back, and I will try to list the symptoms in chronological order. The ECT sensor has been changed and I can read live-data that shows all sensors read normal for expected values. No blinky codes have ever been set except 12. The engine has always cranked normally.

Original issue was a very quick and intermittent "hiccup" in idle speed when at a stop. This was very infrequent. SES not set, only blinky code was 12; but scanner showed "flag 52". I cleared the 52 flag.

At some point, it began having an idle that stayed too high right after starting, then would drop too low. After running for a minute or so this all got healed. Along with this, the tach would sometimes show zero rpm, even though the engine was clearly running. Again, after a minute or so the tach would just come alive and function normally. No blinky codes, 52 on the scanner; so I cleared codes. I think it still had the idle "hiccup".

Next, hard starting was been added to the drama; it can take several seconds of cranking before it fires. This hard starting seems to be only when it is cold. No SES, no blinky codes, flag 52 set, all sensors read normal.

Recently, the SES has come on, but still no blinky codes. Usually just that flag 52 from the scanner, but a couple of times 19 got set, and once there was a 42.

Now that it will give me a few seconds of "crank but no fire" I have checked spark at the coils (both spark, but a bit more orange than I was expecting); and I quickly pulled a plug that looked dry; and I tried a quick blast or starting-fluid. It fired quickly with the starting-fluid and kept running, so no more testing was possible as it would would fire normally after that until the next episode. I would like to believe the starting fluid (coupled with the dry plug) hints at a fueling problem; but who knows? Maybe it was simply time for it to self-heal after the previous cranking to check spark and check the plug for wetness.

So, I got a fuel-pressure gauge. Pressure, when the pump has run is about 40 psi, idling at about 35 psi and increasing with increasing MAP.

Did you catch the italics in that "when"? Here is where it gets confusingly interesting! Previously, I would always turn the key from run to crank fairly quickly, not much chance to hear the pump or see exactly what the dash lights were doing. To test for FP, I just turned the key to run and noticed that for the next several seconds various strange things happened. Sometimes the fuel pump would not come on. Sometimes it would go on-off-on-off-on... Sometimes the cooling fan would come on. Sometimes there would be a relay clicking or the SES light would blink off-on-off.. during all this. So far, I see no consistent pattern in these shenanigans, and they all happen before any attempt to crank. And, of course, sometimes everything works normally, the pump comes on for a couple of seconds then goes off and that is all; you can then crank and it will fire instantly.

So, it being intermittent I am anticipating a long effort of tracking this down with my voltmeter with long leads; maybe even having to set up a way to data-log voltages as I work my way through the circuits.

The questions:

Are the schematics for a '94 posted here somewhere?

Where would you suggest I start? Power to the PCM? Signal to the FP coil? Power to the FP itself? Injectors for pulsing?

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Old 11-02-2018, 01:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

1st gens use a different pin number than F5 in 2nd gens but they can still suffer the same issue as they're wired in a similar manner (too much draw on a single pin). I know it's been posted before but I can't remember where/when and I haven't found the fuse box in it's entirety in my AllData collection.

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Old 11-02-2018, 09:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Gen-1 is F6 same connector, Red/white wire.

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Old 11-02-2018, 10:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Ha, glad I asked! I have heard of the F5 problem here many times, of course, but thought that didn't apply to the gen1. That is sort of true, since it is called "F6" on the gen1, but same basic problem...

It is kind of late to be asking, but is that F6 terminal in the UHJB, or someplace else? I have pulled the cover plate off the UHJB and everything looks good there. I unfastened the UHJB to lift it up and look at the wiring/terms underneath, but it won't lift more than about 1/2". Do I really have to remove the LF wheel and splash-shield to unclip the cables under there, just to get a peek?

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Old 11-03-2018, 08:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

I did some searching and concluded the F5/6 stuff is in the IPJB, not UHJB. So, I pulled loose the connector on the back of the IPJB (very grateful that the screw jacks it loose!) and found all contacts to be nice and shiny, no sign of burning anywhere. F5 and F6? There are no wires to those cavities (closest is F3,4,&7). In fact, I can find no RED/WHT wire, or WHT/RED wire anywhere on the IPJB connector.

So, I'm asking (OK, begging) again for schematics...

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Old 11-03-2018, 09:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Well, the F-6 is right from he FSM for 94. It is located in the I/P Panel. It is located in the large brown connector, there is 1 locating tit on 1 long side and 2 on the other. The F row is along the 1 tit side. On 1 end there is a dark blue wire and on the opposite end there is a brown wire. Next to the brown wire there is a red with white tracer wire --that is F-6. Look at the connector in the plug block and mating terminal in the panel.

If that is not the problem then it is likely internal and that can all be tested from F-6 to the associated fuse high side for any signs of a high resistance internal connection.

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Old 11-03-2018, 10:36 PM   #7
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Post Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Will this help??

1995 SL1 236,300 2005>2018
1997 SL1 68,800 21 yrs. and Legal!!
CHECK YOUR OIL!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Fuel relay.jpg (125.1 KB, 11 views)

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Old 11-03-2018, 11:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

1 of 2, IP Fuse box for 1994 wiring diagrams. F6 shows as a red w/ white stripe wire for '94.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01.jpg (179.6 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 02.jpg (111.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 03.jpg (153.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 04.jpg (125.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 05.jpg (100.8 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 06.jpg (78.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 07.jpg (146.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 08.jpg (193.5 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 09.jpg (199.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg 10.jpg (110.8 KB, 2 views)

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Old 11-03-2018, 11:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

2 of 2, connector diagrams for IPFB, F6 is the top row, middle of the second section.

Sorry for some of these being white text on black background, figured out why it's doing it but it requires a disc I apparently didn't copy over if it was even included in the 91 DVD set I got.

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Old 11-04-2018, 09:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Be careful with those pix as that is the wrong connector and pinout. The proper F-6 is in the BROWN connector. Left side of this drawing.
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Old 11-04-2018, 01:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Yep, when you mentioned that it is a BRN connector, in reply #6, that was the hint I needed.

Do the rest of you understand, there are two similar-looking connectors there, two different "F6" connections to the IPJB? The connector housings have pretty much the same shape (tits and all), but the easy-to-see and get to one is the BLK, the BRN is up where it can be missed. I found the BLK one, with "F6" and such, and didn't look further.

Alas, the F6 wire/contacts on the BRN connector are fine too, so that isn't it!

I will study those schematics and try to find the most productive place to start probing, thanks.

In the same area, behind the driver-side panel, is a "dangling" cable. It is BLU with four inline pins wired like this:
A => YEL
B => BLK
C => GRN
D => BRN

What is it for? I assume it is not my problem, probably and option not installed on this car.

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Old 11-04-2018, 01:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

AllData shows no brown connector, just 2 different size black ones.

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Old 11-04-2018, 01:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

I'm looking for some commonality between the circuits of the FP, tach, SES light, and engine-cooling fan; as they are all operating erratic at times. The only thing I see so far is the PCM.

Alldata is clearly wrong then. I'll post pictures of the two if you can't believe that...

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Old 11-04-2018, 01:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

I don't disagree, but I can't post diagrams of something that AllData/GM doesn't provide. I believe the '1 of 2' post has the entirety of the IPFB across the 10 pages but it'll be tricky to stitch them together.

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Old 11-04-2018, 01:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

I went over those schematics posted once, but will have to go over them again. However, I don't think they show the whole IPJB.

Errors in manuals are inevitable, we just need to keep that in mind. I'm not faulting your good intentions!

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Old 11-04-2018, 02:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Yep, when you mentioned that it is a BRN connector, in reply #6, that was the hint I needed.

Do the rest of you understand, there are two similar-looking connectors there, two different "F6" connections to the IPJB? The connector housings have pretty much the same shape (tits and all), but the easy-to-see and get to one is the BLK, the BRN is up where it can be missed. I found the BLK one, with "F6" and such, and didn't look further.

Alas, the F6 wire/contacts on the BRN connector are fine too, so that isn't it!

I will study those schematics and try to find the most productive place to start probing, thanks.

In the same area, behind the driver-side panel, is a "dangling" cable. It is BLU with four inline pins wired like this:
A => YEL
B => BLK
C => GRN
D => BRN

What is it for? I assume it is not my problem, probably and option not installed on this car.
Yes, option not installed.
94 IP panel has a total of 2 connectors on the back side. Both are identical as far as numbering is concerned.

So, main power is good. There is minimal commonality between the fuel pump, Tach, SES, and cooling fan. The odd one here is the fan, so more detail would help. The remainder sounds suspiciously like a battery issue.

AllData no longer provides DVD/CD based info, only on line. They have not done this for many years. One thing to check is the radio presets, are they gone by any chance?

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Old 11-04-2018, 04:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

I think the radio presets have remained intact through all this, but expect they are gone now; I disconnected the battery before fussing with these JBs. I have been clearing codes using the scanner, not bat disconnect.

I also have the flag 52 that the scanner shows, but it is never in the blinky codes and doesn't turn on the SES, of course. I'm not completely confident that the 52 is real, as the scanner also shows cycles since it was first set, and those are always way higher than the times the car has been on/off since codes were cleared. Or, is the PCM power so flaky the PCM is experiencing on/off cycles as I drive along; ones so fast that they don't impact perceived driveablity?

Yeah, I'm trying to get a better handle on the symptoms; but things are getting bad enough that it is no longer a preferred vehicle. We tend not to take it unless time is of no importance in our trip and we have a "rescue plan" that can be implemented. Last resort is a tow from AAA, as that usually takes several hours.

Two connectors on that IPJB? No, I have five plugged in there. Besides the big BLK/BRN ones, there are two small gray ones and a blue one that looks to be 8-pin (two rows of 4). They may not be electrically connected to what is defined as the IPJB, but they sure go into the same plastic molded part that is the IPJB. We need to be very careful how we describe things. If I can get so confused, then surely the casual DIYers coming here for help can get confused as well.

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Old 11-04-2018, 05:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Help me with a quick detour here. The Saturn dealer I bought the car from had installed an aftermarket anti-theft system, which I asked them to remove before buying the car (new). They just disabled it, and some of the wires to the BLK connector are kind of butchered. Copper is intact, but the insulation has been skinned away to wrap the new "tapping" wires onto the conductors. I have removed that old crap and want to elegantly insulate/stiffen those bare spots; so would like to be able to slip heat-shrink onto the wires.

Questions are: Do the contact come out of the housing from the wire-side, as I hope? Does the tool for depressing the locking tang go in from the wire-side, or does it go in from the mating side? I don't want to ruin either the housing or contacts trying to "fix what ain't broke"...

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Old 11-04-2018, 06:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

As you note there are only 2 harness connectors to the i/P Panel, that is not all that connects there though.

As to the security system. I would physically verify that every last withe is no longer connected to any OEM wiring.

The individual connectors do come out but the process bends the latch and you have to straighten it back out. The blue connector assurance devise must be removed.
This collection shows where to poke and what to poke with. https://imgur.com/a/411Aa Look at the pictures and then ask questions. The pin comes out the wire side and the poking tool enters on the face side against the rounded edge. Unmodified screwdriver will not work.

Flag 52 could very well originate in the UHJB with the PCM B or PCM I circuit. It could also be a defective alternator. The fusible link is always suspect as well as a failing regulator plug.

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Old 11-04-2018, 06:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: '94 SL2 manual trans, electrical help needed

Flag 52 is monitoring the voltage at the PCM From the IGN-4 section of the key switch through the PCM I fuse in the UHJB. A defective ignition switch is not out of the question as it is made by Jos. Lucas Co., King Of The Road - Prince Of Darkness.

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