SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2018, 01:29 PM   #1
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Dizzy changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

I was driving my 2002 Sl2 the other day and it died in the Walmart parking lot. I was able to jump start it with cables, so I figured it must just be a battery issue.

Went to the store, bought a new battery, and put it in, but it's still not starting. I've checked the new battery and it's got plenty of juice.

When I turn the key, the lights will come on, but cranking it all the way does nothing, and after returning it to the normal on position there's a couple of clicks that sound like they're coming from under the glove box.

I've recorded a video of the dash when attempting to start it here: photos.app.goo.gl/qsz8v4RA6dV7TFNw7

I checked the fuses and they all look fine, none are loose.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 07-31-2018, 01:41 PM   #2
ErikTande
Member
ErikTande is a jewel in the roughErikTande is a jewel in the roughErikTande is a jewel in the roughErikTande is a jewel in the rough
 
ErikTande's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 137
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Loose ground maybe, or possible bad starter.

I had a starter go bad that wouldn't even click, but when you jumped the car it would turn over. Tap the starter with a hammer or screwdriver and try it again.

...
http://www.youtube.com/velocitylabs

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to ErikTande's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help ErikTande reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
ErikTande is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2018, 09:04 PM   #3
Waiex191
Senior Member
Waiex191 is a jewel in the roughWaiex191 is a jewel in the roughWaiex191 is a jewel in the rough
 
Waiex191's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Poplar Grove, IL
Posts: 1,929

1999 SL2
1998 SC2
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

When the starters fail they mysteriously fix themselves intermittently. Your jump start probably didn't do anything. What is your voltage when the car is running?

...
Bryan Cotton
'99 SL2, 5SP bought new
Rebuilt at 204,067 September 2017
Engine, subframe, diff pin mod, brake lines, headliner, alternator, and so on!
'98 SC2, 5SP bought 2018

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Waiex191's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Waiex191 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Waiex191 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 11:08 AM   #4
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikTande View Post
Loose ground maybe, or possible bad starter.

I had a starter go bad that wouldn't even click, but when you jumped the car it would turn over. Tap the starter with a hammer or screwdriver and try it again.
I looked for the starter, but don't think I found it. I don't have anything to jack the front up with, and I believe it's hidden underneath?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 11:10 AM   #5
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
When the starters fail they mysteriously fix themselves intermittently. Your jump start probably didn't do anything. What is your voltage when the car is running?
don't currently have a tool to test that with, but the dash lights flicker and sometimes take a second to turn on, which sounds like the battery may not be supplying enough voltage? but I know the battery is brand new and fully charged.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 12:08 PM   #6
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,892
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

In your video, when you turned the ignition switch to START, all the lights died. This is the biggest hint of a power problem. Eliminating a new battery as one fault leaves a number of other possibilities. Power; battery, battery cables, and their connections. Lights dying immediately suggests a new battery isn't getting power thru the battery cables. Power begins at the battery so a new battery isn't the problem.

Battery cables need to be clean and free of corrosion on their connections to battery. Terminals need to be tightened correctly. If powdery residue is seen on one or both battery terminal posts, dried battery acid can prevent power to the car. A warm solution of water and baking soda with a toothbrush will dissolve and neutralize dried battery acid with a plain water rinse. Check to be sure battery negative is connected to chassis and engine block without corrosion on those two end connections. With battery and cables checked, the next step is whether or not the starting circuit or starter is faulty.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 05:22 PM   #7
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
In your video, when you turned the ignition switch to START, all the lights died. This is the biggest hint of a power problem. Eliminating a new battery as one fault leaves a number of other possibilities. Power; battery, battery cables, and their connections. Lights dying immediately suggests a new battery isn't getting power thru the battery cables. Power begins at the battery so a new battery isn't the problem.

Battery cables need to be clean and free of corrosion on their connections to battery. Terminals need to be tightened correctly. If powdery residue is seen on one or both battery terminal posts, dried battery acid can prevent power to the car. A warm solution of water and baking soda with a toothbrush will dissolve and neutralize dried battery acid with a plain water rinse. Check to be sure battery negative is connected to chassis and engine block without corrosion on those two end connections. With battery and cables checked, the next step is whether or not the starting circuit or starter is faulty.
I hooked up a code reader and it's throwing the 'vehicle theft deterrent password incorrect' error. Problem is, the guides I've found online for resetting the password dont seem to work, as they all involve turning the car on and waiting for 5 minutes until the security light goes off. My security light goes off right away every time I start it up.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 05:54 PM   #8
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,892
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

You came to Saturnfans for Saturn information. Unless you found another site for Saturns, the internet is full of information, misinformation, facts, and hearsay. How do you separate false info from genuine? Here in Saturnfans, we share as much free service manual info as possible. Your Saturn uses GMs Passlock theft deterrent system. You'll find all you need to know here unless you pay GM to give you info or subscribe to alldata or Mitchell for online GM service manuals.

Your descriptions of security turning on then off means Passlock is working and isn't interfering with starting. Passlock disables injector operation, not starter operation. When security is flashing quickly, Passlock is enabled and actively disabling injectors so you can crank the engine all day until either the battery dies or starter burns out - the engine will never fire up if injectors are disabled. A dead no start issue you have is not a Passlock issue.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 06:52 PM   #9
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
You came to Saturnfans for Saturn information. Unless you found another site for Saturns, the internet is full of information, misinformation, facts, and hearsay. How do you separate false info from genuine? Here in Saturnfans, we share as much free service manual info as possible. Your Saturn uses GMs Passlock theft deterrent system. You'll find all you need to know here unless you pay GM to give you info or subscribe to alldata or Mitchell for online GM service manuals.

Your descriptions of security turning on then off means Passlock is working and isn't interfering with starting. Passlock disables injector operation, not starter operation. When security is flashing quickly, Passlock is enabled and actively disabling injectors so you can crank the engine all day until either the battery dies or starter burns out - the engine will never fire up if injectors are disabled. A dead no start issue you have is not a Passlock issue.
Gotcha. I just figured I may have triggered the security by replacing the battery, and the code reader seems like confirmation of that.

like you say, though, the security light doesn't blink or flash or remain on. I checked the battery connectors, and they seem very clean, with no powder or rust.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 07:21 PM   #10
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,892
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

You can search within these forums for Passlock explanation in details, how its triggered in Tamper mode (10 min lockout), full lockout (flashing security either in Tamper Mode or not) and requiring a 30 minute relearn procedure. The SL2 uses GMs last security system before adapting to the rfid/chipped remote theft deterrent system. Even this system, used almost worldwide still incorporates the original factory system to disable something in the EFI system without needing to buy any aftermarket alarm system. Most systems will disable injectors, spark or starter to stop thieves. Only the smarter ones steal with access to expensive electronic sniffers to seek xmitter frequency signals and break into a car without breaking anything to drive a car away. Smart thieves with money and very sophisticated electronics skills.

For now, ignore the error message and try suggestions given. As nice as the Bosch reader is, it may trip on giving false info. Believe me (or not, your choice), I've witnessed supposedly well trained electronics techs fail to diagnose a simple problem and turn in into a genuine clusterf***. I still remember incidents from life experiences because I wasn't allowed into that exclusive club.....

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2018, 12:30 PM   #11
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
You can search within these forums for Passlock explanation in details, how its triggered in Tamper mode (10 min lockout), full lockout (flashing security either in Tamper Mode or not) and requiring a 30 minute relearn procedure. The SL2 uses GMs last security system before adapting to the rfid/chipped remote theft deterrent system. Even this system, used almost worldwide still incorporates the original factory system to disable something in the EFI system without needing to buy any aftermarket alarm system. Most systems will disable injectors, spark or starter to stop thieves. Only the smarter ones steal with access to expensive electronic sniffers to seek xmitter frequency signals and break into a car without breaking anything to drive a car away. Smart thieves with money and very sophisticated electronics skills.

For now, ignore the error message and try suggestions given. As nice as the Bosch reader is, it may trip on giving false info. Believe me (or not, your choice), I've witnessed supposedly well trained electronics techs fail to diagnose a simple problem and turn in into a genuine clusterf***. I still remember incidents from life experiences because I wasn't allowed into that exclusive club.....
Well, I cleaned the battery cables and exchanged the new battery for another new one, just in case. The dash lights came on the first time I turned it to on, but it still wouldn't start and now none of the lights come on at all. maybe this battery is even worse than the first one.

think I will probably get it towed to NAPA tomorrow perhaps

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2018, 12:40 PM   #12
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,892
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

What's the maintenance history of this car? Mileage? If you aren't familiar with diagnosing car problems and repairs, repair shops may be the best way to go. Saturnfans are here to help if you need guidance for diy repairs.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2018, 01:19 PM   #13
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,892
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

And it's not a battery problem.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2018, 03:28 PM   #14
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,626
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

This is a classic internal corroded positive cable failure. This is not a visible failure unless you know exactly what to look for. It is not a failure that can be fixed by any cleaning etc., the battery cable is scrap. Junk Yard is the best deal on OEM copper cables.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2018, 05:46 PM   #15
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
This is a classic internal corroded positive cable failure. This is not a visible failure unless you know exactly what to look for. It is not a failure that can be fixed by any cleaning etc., the battery cable is scrap. Junk Yard is the best deal on OEM copper cables.
is this something I could replace myself fairly easily, or is it something I should just trust to a mechanic do you think?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2018, 06:47 PM   #16
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,626
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

The likely issue is the red cable which is connected at 3 places, battery, UHJB, and the starter. It is also best to replace the black one at the same time and it is connected to the block and the battery. As long as you have a safe way to get the car up in the air so you can get at the starter this is a simple DIY job. Parts stores sell an aluminum conductor replacment and sometimes they have the copper replacement, there is a considerable price difference. The actual replacement is only a matter of realizing the starter terminal is a cope alloy and can not be overtightened or it breaks off and this is also the case at the battery and UHJB terminal. If you changed out the battery and cleaned the cables yourself you should be OK. As to what to get for replacements the JY for copper is the lowest cost but you do run the chance of getting another bad one. The point of failure is where that flat copper terminal at the battery is crimped to the copper cable. IF the cable is an OEM design the red or black battery end terminal cover will alide off once the terminal bolt is unscrewed-pulled out of the cable end. At this point you can se the crimp and the very end of teh cable. If it has any white or green deposits or swelling it is no good.

The cables that fit your car come from any 00-02 Saturn. Earlier cables may work OK but are a different length.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 09:06 AM   #17
belac77
New Member
belac77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 8
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

just wanted to post an update; it is running great again. I hadn't really done too much other than try to cycle it on and off, so perhaps I did it enough that it reset the security system or something.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to belac77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help belac77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
belac77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 11:07 AM   #18
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,626
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: changed the battery, but my SL2 still won't start up

Cycling the power will eventually punch through a high resistance connection for awhile.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
odometer reading changed after 12v battery replacement katemcd Vue General 6 10-13-2015 11:03 AM
Changed battery, now no warning beeps rununix Aura General 2 11-20-2010 02:02 AM
Idle changed after battery died w-in-ga S-Series General 4 12-08-2009 09:03 AM
Changed battery now transmission Bangs groingo S-Series Tech 4 09-20-2009 03:56 PM
Changed Battery, Odometer lost it's mind martinsmommy L-Series Tech 4 01-10-2007 12:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.