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Old 08-16-2018, 11:25 AM   #21
Pitcher
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

I remember my Dad & BIL putting a Quart of ATF in the Oil to clean out a sludged engine back in the Mid 70's!


That was the Genesis of opening my brain up to experimenting with Additives!

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Old 08-16-2018, 05:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc2Zr2 View Post
im still looking into running rotella t6, but am hesitant to put anything other than the manufacturers recommended 5w-30. don't want to cause anymore damage to any components due to lack of proper lubrication as i do plan to rebuild this engine in the near future.
I understand ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc2Zr2 View Post
as far as running a synthetic oil i may consider trying it out if i get a good deal on something, but at the rate im burning it i may as well just run the $12/gal chevron 5w-30 from Walmart. after rebuild synthetic all the way.
Yes, I was thinking about the high consumption and agree with you. However, instead of either 5W-30 conventional or 5W-xx synthetic, I'd run Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella 15W-40 (T4). These oils use so-called Group II+ base stocks and include the better dual-rated additive packages, so they'll provide better protection than 5W-30 and probably slow consumption a bit in the process. You might find similar benefits from a high-mileage 5W-30, but I'd expect higher consumption and I don't know how the cost compares to Delo or Rotella.

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Old 08-16-2018, 06:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Burning a quart every 400 miles is a lot... I would go straight to the B-12 application on a warm engine.

This is what I did:
1) Clean spark plug wells
2) Loosen spark plugs on a cold engine
3) "Snug" the plugs back in
4) Start engine, let it warm up, shut it off
5) Drain oil in a clean container (to be reused)
6) Leave the drain plug off and put another container under the drain
7) Remove spark plugs
8) Pour 2-4 oz of B-12 through spark plug holes on a moderately warm engine. Sometimes I mixed the B-12 with PB Blaster Small Engine Tuneup
9) Hand crank or wiggle the serpentine belt to move the cylinders around a little to help the B-12 work in the rings
9) Let it drain out to oil pan
10) Add some more B-12 if it drained out quickly
11) Let it drain out
12) Once cylinders are drained or have waited long enough, put drain plug back on
13) Refill oil with the oil that was just drained
14) If B-12 is still in the cylinders try to get it out by cranking engine without plugs in (disconnect fuel pump or fuel pump relay)
15) Add a teaspoon of oil to each cylinder for lube (however, this will cause hard starting if it gets on plugs)
16) Put plugs back in
17) Reconnect fuel pump or relay if you disconnected it
18) Start up engine.
19) Engine will be EASIER to START if its still WARM, but it may take awhile and sound like crap for a little bit.
20) Take a drive
21) Change oil with new oil/filter or repeat the entire process again for another quick soak

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Old 08-16-2018, 07:01 PM   #24
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

After the B-12 soak crank the engine with a towel over to catch liquid B-12 that didn't drain down. Then use compressed air and replace all the air in the cylinder several times over with shop air. Failure to do the last step will cause it to be very difficult to start since the cylinders are super rich. If you cannot do that at least start with the gas peddle pressed to the floor to put it in rich mode. Continue cranking with the gas peddle pressed until it starts to catch. It may be difficult to start.

Don't poor the B-12 directly into a hot engine. The vaporization temp on the B-12 isn't very high and it will just vaporize immediately.

-Robert

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Old 08-17-2018, 11:29 AM   #25
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Step 14, rather than disconnect fuel pump or fuel pump relay, pull the PCM-B fuse from the box under the hood.

Per OldNuc, that disables the fuel injectors and spark (no PCM signal - shuts off everything except the starter, and the battery / oil pressure lights)

Also, weigh down the rag over the spark plug wells, carefully and securely.

If you do it in haste and don't quite catch a corner, there is enough pressure when cranking to blow the rag up and you end up with MMO all over the hood and the walls of your garage. Ask me how I know

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Old 08-17-2018, 11:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

If the B-12 does it job, you probably won't have any left in the combustion chambers... it's pretty thin, and once it does it job, it will drain easier and there probably won't be any left on top of the cylinders. Only when I used MMO, did I have problems with it draining out. So you most likely will be able to skip step 14.

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Old 08-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealt View Post
If the B-12 does it job, you probably won't have any left in the combustion chambers... it's pretty thin, and once it does it job, it will drain easier and there probably won't be any left on top of the cylinders. Only when I used MMO, did I have problems with it draining out. So you most likely will be able to skip step 14.
Its the vapor that's left inside that causes the issue. There will be small amounts pooled on the top of the piston that maintains the vapor. Just need to blow the vapor out.

-Robert

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Old 08-17-2018, 12:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
Step 14, rather than disconnect fuel pump or fuel pump relay, pull the PCM-B fuse from the box under the hood.

Per OldNuc, that disables the fuel injectors and spark (no PCM signal - shuts off everything except the starter, and the battery / oil pressure lights)

Also, weigh down the rag over the spark plug wells, carefully and securely.

If you do it in haste and don't quite catch a corner, there is enough pressure when cranking to blow the rag up and you end up with MMO all over the hood and the walls of your garage. Ask me how I know
Pushing the gas peddle to the floor also disables the injectors. Its the flooded start mode in the PCM.

-Robert

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Old 08-22-2018, 02:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitcher View Post
I remember my Dad & BIL putting a Quart of ATF in the Oil to clean out a sludged engine back in the Mid 70's!


That was the Genesis of opening my brain up to experimenting with Additives!
I have a YouTube video and photos of a destroyed engine block, from running ATF in my first engine. I know, from experience, how stupid it was to not listen to Wolfman and OldNuc about putting additives in the oil.

I'll be looking at anywhere between $700-900 just have the bottom end bored, rebuilt, and spin balanced, not including the cost of replacing all 16 of my valves and lapping the seats because of the burnt exhaust valve I now have in my #3 cylinder.

...
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Old 08-22-2018, 02:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc2Zr2 View Post
im still looking into running rotella t6, but am hesitant to put anything other than the manufacturers recommended 5w-30. don't want to cause anymore damage to any components due to lack of proper lubrication as i do plan to rebuild this engine in the near future.

as far as running a synthetic oil i may consider trying it out if i get a good deal on something, but at the rate im burning it i may as well just run the $12/gal chevron 5w-30 from Walmart. after rebuild synthetic all the way.
I am running the Rotella T6 5w-40 in my current engine. The current JY engine I have has bad valve stem seals and burns about 1qt/400 miles. Even after 3,000 miles and using the Purolator PL20195 filter, my oil is only dark brownish color and I can still read the lettering on the dipstick.

It will actually keep the engine much cleaner and it is specially designed for turbo-diesel engines which makes it better suited to the average cylinder wall temperatures of the S-series 1.9L engine, before it begins to oxidize and turn to varnish.

Eiron's thread has confirmed that I will continue to run Rotella T6, because he pulled open the oil filters and showed how much gunk it can pull out of the engine.

Plus, you can register your saturn VIN with the Rotella MyMilesMatter Rewards program(they will INSULT your Saturn by stating the VIN belongs to a damn Dodge.....but you can still register the VIN) which you can then trade the miles in for $25 Shell gifts cards for either buying more oil or gas, and they have a bunch of other things you can redeem the mile points for

...
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"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 08-24-2018, 02:36 AM   #31
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Eiron's thread has confirmed that I will continue to run Rotella T6, because he pulled open the oil filters and showed how much gunk it can pull out of the engine.
I'd like to mention that I'm using the T6 as the "carrier oil" for the Auto-Rx engine cleaner. (I'm not using T6 alone to clean my engine.) I'm using T6 because I know its Group III base oil chemistry won't interfere with the Auto-Rx cleaning process, it's durable enough for a 10,000 mile OCI, and it includes a robust additive package which I feel aids the Auto-Rx cleaning process.

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Old 08-24-2018, 10:49 AM   #32
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertGary1 View Post
Pushing the gas peddle to the floor also disables the injectors. Its the flooded start mode in the PCM.

-Robert
Good point, and I've used it a few times before I replaced my ECTS . . . and then a few times after, until I replaced the ECTS connector

But that does not disable spark and depending on what brew I have in the cylinders for the soak, I may want to disable spark . . . just in case

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Old 08-26-2018, 11:54 AM   #33
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertGary1 View Post
Pushing the gas peddle to the floor also disables the injectors. Its the flooded start mode in the PCM.

-Robert
Only on 1996-2002 S-Series. This "clear flood" mode is not programmed into OBD-I systems. The the injectors being disabled during coasting/braking is also not programmed into OBD-I, as I would get Code 45 for Rich Exhaust Detected after One Minute of Operation when coasting at 0% throttle, just before I burnt my exhaust valves in the #3 cylinder of my DOHC.

The OP shows to have a 1995 Saturn in his profile. His car will be OBD-I. Of he floors the gas, while cranking, he will have a LOUD surprise when it fires. And if he has leaking valves, he will have a NASTY backfire through the intake manifold.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

Last edited by Saturn Night; 08-26-2018 at 12:02 PM..

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Old 08-26-2018, 12:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiron View Post
I'd like to mention that I'm using the T6 as the "carrier oil" for the Auto-Rx engine cleaner. (I'm not using T6 alone to clean my engine.) I'm using T6 because I know its Group III base oil chemistry won't interfere with the Auto-Rx cleaning process, it's durable enough for a 10,000 mile OCI, and it includes a robust additive package which I feel aids the Auto-Rx cleaning process.
I understand that. I read your thread, when I was given the suggestion to try that oil by another user after I had to replace my engine. I have bad valve stem seals on the JY engine I swapped into my car.

No amount of Auto-Rx is going to save a set of 16 trashed valve stem seals. That requires the head to be properly serviced at a reputable machine shop, or by a mechanic with the proper tools.

Even with the leakage through the valves, the oil alone, is keeping my engine clean enough to only be dark brown by the 3,000 OCI mark.

You can sell me on the oil, and the Auto-Rx combo. There is not a living soul that will ever sell me on a 10,000-mile(or longer) OCI.

I will post the photos of my JY engine block, because I did have to put a head gasket in it when I got it. The car it came out of had 211k on its odometer, but the PO of that car had changed the engine.

So actual mileage is unknown.

...
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Old 08-26-2018, 04:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
No amount of Auto-Rx is going to save a set of 16 trashed valve stem seals. That requires the head to be properly serviced at a reputable machine shop, or by a mechanic with the proper tools.

Even with the leakage through the valves, the oil alone, is keeping my engine clean enough to only be dark brown by the 3,000 OCI mark.

You can sell me on the oil, and the Auto-Rx combo. There is not a living soul that will ever sell me on a 10,000-mile(or longer) OCI.
Sure, I understand that your situation is different than mine, and that no chemical is going to repair a mechanical problem. I wasn't telling you so much as I was letting others know that I'm not only using T6 to get that much crud out of my engine and into the filters. I think you'd see an equal amount of cleanliness on your dipstick if you used T4 (or Delo 400) since they both contain comparable additive packages to T6. (These two oils have shown better cold-flow than other 15W-40 oils and cost significantly less than T6 in the quantities you're using.)

I also understand the resistance to long OCIs. In my case, I'll have added about a gallon of fresh oil by the time I drain it out, so I'll actually have the equivalent of two complete oil changes (and three new filters) at the 11,000 mile mark. (I'm counting the starting oil change as one of the two total changes.) In your case, 1qt/400 miles gives you three complete oil changes by the time you reach 3,200 miles and more than seven complete changes at 10,000 miles.

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Old 08-26-2018, 09:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Excessive oil consumption

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiron View Post
Sure, I understand that your situation is different than mine, and that no chemical is going to repair a mechanical problem. I wasn't telling you so much as I was letting others know that I'm not only using T6 to get that much crud out of my engine and into the filters. I think you'd see an equal amount of cleanliness on your dipstick if you used T4 (or Delo 400) since they both contain comparable additive packages to T6. (These two oils have shown better cold-flow than other 15W-40 oils and cost significantly less than T6 in the quantities you're using.)

I also understand the resistance to long OCIs. In my case, I'll have added about a gallon of fresh oil by the time I drain it out, so I'll actually have the equivalent of two complete oil changes (and three new filters) at the 11,000 mile mark. (I'm counting the starting oil change as one of the two total changes.) In your case, 1qt/400 miles gives you three complete oil changes by the time you reach 3,200 miles and more than seven complete changes at 10,000 miles.
Ok, now that you put a better explanation to it, I understand what you were trying to say. Now, it makes more sense.

...
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