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Old 07-18-2019, 12:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Waiex191, make, model and year of your Buick?

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Old 07-18-2019, 12:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

2000 Buick Century.

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Old 07-18-2019, 12:46 AM   #23
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Service manual doesn't seem to discern any differences of service valve core replacement.

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Old 07-18-2019, 06:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
Schrader valve, uses a standard core just like a tire. You should still be able to get a seal with an o-ring in the cap. Might be time for some plain old liquid leak detector. Such as this: https://www.amazon.com/Snoop-Leak-8O...s%2C217&sr=8-6 It is possible you have more than a single leak at that assembly.
I would suspect what you are looking at is a blow through cap as is found on large dual wheel truck tires. The ball is spring loaded closed and when the air chuck is applied the ball is depressed and gas is then forced through the usual spring schrader valve. Might be a non OEM adaptation. Ask any of your dual wheel frinds how they work.

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Old 07-18-2019, 07:26 AM   #25
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

I neglected to attach a file in my previous post.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Service Information.pdf (65.7 KB, 6 views)

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Old 07-18-2019, 09:30 AM   #26
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Here is a video of the style of high side port that I have.
https://youtu.be/FGeulEvasnA
If I ever have to service one of these systems again, I'm converting the valves.

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Old 07-18-2019, 10:25 AM   #27
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Yep, that is a blow through valve, strange to find one on an A/C system though. On a tire there is a real schrader underneath it so there are 2 valves in series.

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Old 07-18-2019, 10:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

So this AM the air was cool, but not as cold as yesterday. I think I have a high and low side port replacement in my future. Should I get those same stupid ball valves or get aftermarket schraeder valves?

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Old 07-18-2019, 10:42 AM   #29
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Get the real things so you don't end up with constant leaks. Also get the ones with the metal caps with built in o-rings or at least the heavy plastic ones. Thew blow through valve is supposed to seal tight enough that no additional cap is required, they clearly don't work.

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Old 08-08-2019, 11:49 PM   #30
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

So I put 1/4 oz of dye in when I had the valve out. Still have a slow leak. Looks like a chafe on the liquid line. When I charge it again, should I add more dye?

In case it is of interest to the Saturn crew, this is what I am trying. I've glued a patch over the chafe spot. I made the patch from a Mr. Clean mop handle.


Here it is glued on.


Metlweld is the aviation flavor of JB Weld. This pipe is a bear to remove. That is why I am fooling around like this.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190808_211626356.jpg (84.7 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190808_220804583.jpg (82.8 KB, 50 views)

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Old 08-09-2019, 04:38 AM   #31
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

1-GM service manual recommendations - no more than 1/4 oz of dye compatible with r134a. GM spec; J 41447.

2-With a patch on the high side line, are you aware of operating pressures? According to service manual charts, maximum high side pressures can be 445 psi@ambient temp of 100F with 60% humidity. The problem with aluminum is its soft metallurgy lending itself to stress hardening from heating and cooling cycles. As you may be aware, highest operating pressures strains system plumbing. Other than replacing this damaged line to ensure integrity, patching or welding are two possibilities. In the hvac industry, there are videos showing welding techniques to repair residential condenser coils. The welding community also show videos on aluminum welding with special techniques along with recommended aluminum welding sticks. aluminum welding is generally at much lower melting temperatures with propane heat possible or mapp gas. Difficult to master but not difficult for above average people willing to learn. Patching presents its own strengths and weaknesses.

Patching a high pressure line has considerations to be made; area of damage, coverage of patch material over the damage area, metal compatibility, adhesive used, expected temperature operation range, etc. Was this band a plain patch covering the area or a clamp to afford its own clamping effect against pressures forcing the patch to move away from the epoxy bond? Can a band clamp be used to reinforce the patch against pressure separation once ac is at operating pressures?

I had the opportunity to repair a blown copper capillary line on a small refrigerator after someone inadvertently drilled the cabinet side for a hasp to lock the fridge. Once the cabinet sheet metal was peeled back to expose the small diameter line, the drill nicked it to allow refrigerant to leak out. I used mapp gas to heat the copper line (1/8" OD?) and applied a brass brazing rod to flow over the damage like solder, removed heat and let it cool. Attached a bullet valve onto a stub tube used at factory assembly to connect a vacuum pump and gauge, evacuated the system and refilled with r134a. Its been operating for around 10-15yrs without issues. Capillary tubing used in refrigerators is the defacto thermal expansion valve separating low from high side and used for decades with zero moving parts

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Old 08-09-2019, 07:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

This is the low side. It is the big line that comes from the evaporator and goes into the accumulator, then into the suction side of the pump. The part seems to be NLA except at the junkyard. To replace it I have to R&R the cruise control and ABS modules.

So, regarding the dye, how do I know how much came out? If there is no oily mess would I just assume a trace?

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Old 08-09-2019, 09:40 AM   #33
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

If you mean tracing a dye leak, an inexpensive uv blacklight will illuminate leak areas since a system is considered sealed whether from factory assembly or proper repairs. Low/high side pressures can go as high as 100 psi when ac isn't used. A leak, no matter how small will release refrigerant, oil and dye. Oil and dye marks the leak spot. Traces of dye are on service valves along with oil, a natural occurrence from service whether connecting or disconnecting gauge hoses.

Advanced skills, experience interpreting gauge pressures in relation to 2k rpm, local temperature and humidity are cross referenced against GM ac charts to determine a sneak approach to topping off a system. All info must be correlated to examine which part of ac charts display expected low and high side pressures without over filing with refrigerant. I can post a chart or two of you like. This assumes your patch job is holding up including a wrap around worm clamp to ensure mechanical stability against line expansion in any amount that cam compromise inflexible epoxy.

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Old 08-09-2019, 09:40 AM   #34
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiex191 View Post
So I put 1/4 oz of dye in when I had the valve out. Still have a slow leak. Looks like a chafe on the liquid line. When I charge it again, should I add more dye?

In case it is of interest to the Saturn crew, this is what I am trying. I've glued a patch over the chafe spot. I made the patch from a Mr. Clean mop handle.


Here it is glued on.


Metlweld is the aviation flavor of JB Weld. This pipe is a bear to remove. That is why I am fooling around like this.
Is that a polyester or true Epoxy product? If the 134a does not attack it then that will work.

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Old 08-09-2019, 10:10 AM   #35
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

fdryer, the system is empty so I'll just put in the specified amount of R134a.

OldNuc, it is epoxy:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...lweldepoxy.php

On my airplane I used it to bond my titanium landing gear struts into their steel sockets. On my Suzuki I used it to bond my fuel outlet back into the petcock. I've used it a few other places also.

...
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Old 08-09-2019, 12:23 PM   #36
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

The fake epoxy is degraded by PAG oil and some refrigerants while epoxy is not, that is why I asked. The patch you made is the first attempt before the cut and flair approach is tried.

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Old 08-09-2019, 01:18 PM   #37
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The patch you made is the first attempt before the cut and flair approach is tried.
Exactly, I have little to lose ($15 worth of Walmart R134a) and much to gain. Whether I cut and flare or replace, there is a lot of work to get the tube out.

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Old 08-09-2019, 04:30 PM   #38
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

The stainless Yor-Loc union fitting should do the job. https://www.mcmaster.com/tube-fittings. I would also use a real thin wipe of RectorSeal #5 on the cleaned tube before installing the collars.

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Old 08-12-2019, 07:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

I charged the system 70 hours ago, and still have 43F air coming out.

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Old 08-12-2019, 08:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: A/C Schrader valve leak

Great!? Just an FYI - I had the pleasure of one evaporator coil leaking on a 280-Z after 5(?) years. R12 system. The center console vent showed oil (no factory dye back then) and zero oil stains everywhere else. Once the evap coil was removed (easy back then) the factory manufacturing was displayed - the all aluminum evap coils uses 'U' shaped tubes to connect each length of straight tubing. Similar to pcv plumbing. They were assembled with epoxy......and gave up after several excellent years of perfect service. Angry and not knowing anyone capable of aluminum welding, I bought a copper evap coil from JC Whitney (why buy another mistake from a dealer?). Repaired and ac was back to excellent cooling. I received a recall letter in the same summer. Guess what the recall was for? I already threw away the receipt for the replacement so didn't try negotiating with Datsun for compensation.

I don't know if Datsun used the Japanese equivalent of JB WELD or aircraft epoxy back in 1977 but epoxy was not very good for joining evap coils. It was gray in color, matching the bare aluminum color. My guess is aluminum thin wall welding wasn't established yet. But America already sent men to the moon and they left trash there while hauling rocks back. Hopefully your epoxy repair lasts forever.

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