SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-30-2008, 06:09 PM   #1
DJCannon5
Member
DJCannon5 is on a distinguished road
 
DJCannon5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 107
 

1995 SC1
2007 ION-1 Sedan
Default Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

Broke my car last night at about 5600 rpms. We thought we had just blown a lifter due to cam chattering. We popped cam cover and everything seemed fine so we did compression check:
190 195 195 200
Hopefully its just a bad bearing and a blown gasket. When it turns over it smokes from timing chain and first exhaust cyclinder also scrapes and screeches and squeals. bent rods bent valves we dont know. Guess well start by dropping the bottom out. Oil lvl was fine also.

Here is a video if your interested in hearing and seeing it on a start up.

http://www.cannonshaven.com/images/engine_problem.mov

"http://www.cannonshaven.com/images/engine_problem.mov"

...
"1995 SL2 Manual" Red
"1995 SC1 Manual" White
"2007 Ion-1 Automatic" Midnight Blue

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DJCannon5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DJCannon5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DJCannon5 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 12-30-2008, 06:58 PM   #2
Low Saturn
Super Member
Low Saturn is a splendid one to beholdLow Saturn is a splendid one to beholdLow Saturn is a splendid one to beholdLow Saturn is a splendid one to beholdLow Saturn is a splendid one to beholdLow Saturn is a splendid one to beholdLow Saturn is a splendid one to behold
 
Low Saturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 15,293
 

2000 SC2
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

Spun rod bearing or bearings is my guess. Sounds like a piston or pistons is slapping agianst the head. I bought a 1994 SL2 that sounded like that. The timing chain could also be installed incorrectly.

Is it a new new engine or a new used engine?

...
Mike

-1991 Turbo SL2.
11.809 @ 116.488 mph
www.differentracing.com

-2000 SC2
-2001 Limited Edition SC2 (#78)
-2001 Chevrolet Suburban
-2011 Rally Yellow Chevrolet Camaro 2SS RS

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Low Saturn's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Low Saturn reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Low Saturn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 07:32 PM   #3
DJCannon5
Member
DJCannon5 is on a distinguished road
 
DJCannon5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 107
 

1995 SC1
2007 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

we just rebuilt it at 197k. Was running great minus an idlign problem that was coming around. I did see smoke coming from timing chain today. But then mostly #1 EXHAUST. I figure the bearing was cooking down there or the head gasket broke its seal around there. Hope it is jsut a bearing and seal. The slapping is what was really messing us up. So the piston is keeping the valves from their full range of motion where it slaps.

Thanks for taking a look Lo.

...
"1995 SL2 Manual" Red
"1995 SC1 Manual" White
"2007 Ion-1 Automatic" Midnight Blue

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DJCannon5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DJCannon5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DJCannon5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 08:57 PM   #4
93SC2'in
Senior Member
93SC2'in is on a distinguished road
 
93SC2'in's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Banos, ca
Posts: 1,012

1993 SC2
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

wow, that sounds pretty horrid, what kit did you use to replace your timing chain? where you driving it when this happened?

...
93 SC2, 5-speed, <dead and gone>
95 SL2 5-speed, oem header, gsi TB, sprint 2.0, kyb gr2's, wb02, SAFCII, CAI, 17"s
---------------
Speed Kills - save lives, Drive a honda

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 93SC2'in's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 93SC2'in reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
93SC2'in is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 09:17 PM   #5
Canyon
Advanced Member
Canyon has a spectacular aura aboutCanyon has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 937
 

1995 SC2
1999 SL1
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

Need a little more detail.

Was this a complete rebuild?
In car or out of car?
Did you replace the timing chain?
How did it run before you ran it up to 5600 RPM?
Was it quiet before you ran it up to 5600 RPM?
How tight did you make the tensioner when you put it back together?
Did you have the head rebuilt?
Did you clean the lifters?
Do you have oil pressure?

It certainly sounds timing related but until I know it has oil pressure I wouldn't rule that out.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Canyon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Canyon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Canyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 10:05 PM   #6
DJCannon5
Member
DJCannon5 is on a distinguished road
 
DJCannon5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 107
 

1995 SC1
2007 ION-1 Sedan
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

93SC2'n: yes new timing chain and other components were installed without a problem. Car was finally starting to idle smooth after some emissions issue. used as close to stock timing chain and other engine parts.

Canyon:

Was this a complete rebuild?

Was complete rebuild. Block head were cleaned honed. About $600 worth of stock parts and machine shop fees. Thing we left out were lifters and cam crank shafts. Valves were reused as well which was not choice but they were in great shape. And oil pump valve was left alone.

In car or out of car?
You mean rebuild or when it happened? If you mean when it happened we were on interstate and pushed it through 2nd and 3rd shifitng at 5600. basically up to 70 without red lining it and getting a ticket. Was first time we had took it that high. It actually started falling apart after we brought it back down. Was some gnarly sounds after the fact. Sound like seizing once and som other bad ****. At first we thought a lifter had gotten stuck due to teh intial cam chatter. Anyhow we drove it back and two running start it a few times.

Did you replace the timing chain?

Yes. Was running fine with a 190-200 compression range.

How did it run before you ran it up to 5600 RPM?
Had a leaky cam cover seal for the second time in a row other then that I was waiting for a tiem to weld on new muffler. Felt liek lower end torque dropped a lil when i deleted the cat and installed the header.

Was it quiet before you ran it up to 5600 RPM?
It would run very quite at 810 regular idle. Up to speed there was a problem bringin it back down. got it from riding up to 4k back down to about 1800. We just avoid bringing it down without down shifting at stops. If you bring it down slow it would let itself drop back down. If it went over 2k wed tap the gas to get it to go back down.


How tight did you make the tensioner when you put it back together?
Not sure I always get on my friend to use torque specs but we try to do too much at once normally working around 10pm - 6am. I trust he knows when he really needs to. trying to avoid a total pull again but will probally have to. i knwo one thign we did I didnt liek was get lower grade 8.9 bolts for clutch plate instead of 10s.

Did you have the head rebuilt?
Yes and I did it myself. itd pick upa chatter now and again. i also switch to synthetic and was worried a thinner oil might let some play build that sludge was stopping before. original lifters and alot of valve protrusion. lapping them made my clearances off.

Did you clean the lifters?
Yes

Do you have oil pressure?
We are going to add in a Oil pressure guage after this incident. There was limited oil spray. i could see it coming up bubbling through the lifters and the cams werent dry but that is soemthing we are worried about. Checked oil as soon as we coudl get off the interstate and Nothign was lost. Was running cheap synthetic 10-30 with lucas engine breakin and had oil at 3/4th.

It certainly sounds timing related but until I know it has oil pressure I wouldn't rule that out

From what we gather so far we might have a oil pimp valve problem. We cleaned out the pieces and housing on it but didnt replace that valve. Think the bearing around 1 & 2 gave out. belive it may have cause damge to piston rod. The compression thing is wierd. With cams off it knocks a little in rotation. 1 & 2 compression is lower then 3 & 4 So we think mayeb the decrease in compression is from the bent piston rods.

Can you tell me a few things about bad oil presure to look for? That would help out. The car use to get sluggish and burn off oil till it was low before the rebuild. i used GTX hard drive before and got more performance and slower oil burn with low oil. hard for me to tell how oiled the cam were with clean synthetic versus the old stuff.

...
"1995 SL2 Manual" Red
"1995 SC1 Manual" White
"2007 Ion-1 Automatic" Midnight Blue

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DJCannon5's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DJCannon5 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DJCannon5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2008, 10:47 PM   #7
Canyon
Advanced Member
Canyon has a spectacular aura aboutCanyon has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 937
 

1995 SC2
1999 SL1
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCannon5 View Post
How tight did you make the tensioner when you put it back together?
Not sure I always get on my friend to use torque specs but we try to do too much at once normally working around 10pm - 6am. I trust he knows when he really needs to. trying to avoid a total pull again but will probally have to. i knwo one thign we did I didnt liek was get lower grade 8.9 bolts for clutch plate instead of 10s.
When you installed the timing chain did you take a pair of channel locks and squeeze the chain together to get the tensioner to extend as far as it could? If not, this might be your problem. If the chain did not have adequate tension it could have jumped on the crank. Once the chain jumped the pistons may be hitting the valves. I am hoping this is not your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCannon5 View Post
Do you have oil pressure?
We are going to add in a Oil pressure guage after this incident. There was limited oil spray. i could see it coming up bubbling through the lifters and the cams werent dry but that is soemthing we are worried about. Checked oil as soon as we coudl get off the interstate and Nothign was lost. Was running cheap synthetic 10-30 with lucas engine breakin and had oil at 3/4th.
I was expecting to see more oil when you ran it with the cover off but I have not personally done this so I can not say if it should be more. Possibly someone else will chime in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCannon5 View Post
From what we gather so far we might have a oil pimp valve problem. We cleaned out the pieces and housing on it but didnt replace that valve. Think the bearing around 1 & 2 gave out. belive it may have cause damge to piston rod. The compression thing is wierd. With cams off it knocks a little in rotation. 1 & 2 compression is lower then 3 & 4 So we think mayeb the decrease in compression is from the bent piston rods.
You have to put an oil pressure gauge on it to really now if you have good pressure. It is a bit of a pain on these engines. I have an adapter that plugs into one of the oil plugs in the oil galley so I can plug in my oil pressure gauge. I use it for the first start of all my rebuilds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJCannon5 View Post
Can you tell me a few things about bad oil presure to look for? That would help out. The car use to get sluggish and burn off oil till it was low before the rebuild. i used GTX hard drive before and got more performance and slower oil burn with low oil. hard for me to tell how oiled the cam were with clean synthetic versus the old stuff.
I don't think oil has anything to do with your current problem.

At this point all you can do is tear the engine apart and see what broke. When you take it apart pay very close attention to the timing chain. Turn the cam gears until the marks are straight up. They should both be straight up at the same point. If not, then one has skipped a link. If they are both straight up at the same point, then check the position of the crank. The crank should be at TDC at that point. If not, then the crank skipped a link. Don't worry about the timing chain colored links. There is some rotation where they line up but I can never remember how many it is. I have pics of the timing chain in the tread labeled "Anyone Ever Rebuild //97SC2" which was recently posted. I need to figure out how to post the link to the thread or save the pics to my photos.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Canyon's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Canyon reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Canyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 03:31 PM   #8
S-forever
Junior Member
S-forever is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 26

1997 SL2
1991 SL2
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyon View Post

You have to put an oil pressure gauge on it to really now if you have good pressure. It is a bit of a pain on these engines. I have an adapter that plugs into one of the oil plugs in the oil galley so I can plug in my oil pressure gauge. I use it for the first start of all my rebuilds.
The oil filter sandwich adapters by glowshiftdirect are an ideal solution to installing a pressure gauge quickly and easily. Great for a temporary check if you're not going to install the gauge permanently. They're available on their site. See the thread on "Oil pressure gauge solution".

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to S-forever's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help S-forever reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
S-forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2019, 03:50 PM   #9
454cid
Member
454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 136
Default Re: Broke my new engine please watch video for diagnosis

This is a decade old thread!

...
2000 SL2 Automatic (back on the road) 16X,XXX miles.
1999 Chevy K3500

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 454cid's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 454cid reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
454cid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Watch thi video ! black98dohc S-Series Mods 9 08-01-2008 08:37 PM
Help with knocking diagnosis (please see video). jenssorenson S-Series Tech 11 05-06-2007 07:01 PM
Engine diagnosis extremesaturn74 S-Series Tech 6 02-17-2007 12:25 AM
Engine Problem Diagnosis GTO S-Series General 4 06-18-2006 06:07 PM
Sparkplug broke, in engine llamaWOOT L-Series Tech 24 11-04-2003 04:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:41 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.