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Old 04-24-2018, 10:13 AM   #1
Ewb4arch
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2000 SL2
Wrench 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

So before posting I checked all the various other posts and like I mentioned in the title, have done "all the things" that typically cause a no start:

Before I list all that, let me begin with what happened.

I've owned the car for about 8 months and use it to commute frequently 45 miles one way. Worked fine on my way home but the next morning it hesitated a little bit pulling out. Almost stalled at the 2nd stop sign. Ran ok for a mile or two then suddenly had no power. Feathering the gas I got it back home, but couldn't get over about 30 mph max while having to feather the gas and down shift (manual trans) to maintain RPMs. Took my truck to work since then.

After I got home I tried to start it again and it would crank fine but not fire. So off to the inter-web!

I did all the things:
1) Replaced coolant temperature sensor. One in the car was brass tipped.
2) Removed the EGR valve to discover the previous owner had put a plate on this to block it off. Cleaned it up and removed the plate and reinstalled.
3) New copper plugs and new wires. I did check for spark on every wire by using one of the new plugs on each wire. Spark looks fine.
4) Checked for clogged air filter. It's a K&N filter that seems clean enough. Also tried starting with it removed. Still no start.
5) Removed and cleaned the throttle body. Was pretty dirty but seemed to move freely and seal well enough when closed.
6) Checked for blocked Cat in the exhaust by removing the upper O2 sensor in the manifold and blowing air from the output on my shop vac up the tail pipe. Plenty of air flow out the O2 hole. Installed a new O2 sensor. I do have a new down stream O2 Sensor but haven't installed it yet.
7) Replaced PCV valve.
8) Replaced Crankshaft Position Sensor on the block above the starter.
9) Checked for fuel pressure. I can hear the fuel pump working and there is a squirt of fuel when I press the schrader valve at the fuel rail. I don't have the tools for more that that right now. I did see something online about activating the fuel pump 4 times without starting. There was still pressure after trying that.
10) Looked into the security system locking me out. I don't believe this to be the case since the security light on the dash comes up fine when first starting but then turns off like it is supposed to after a couple seconds. It doesn't stay lit or blink or anything. Also since I seem to be getting spark properly I don't think this is it.

Some other info:
a) Before it quit running, when coming to a stop in neutral the RPM's would be about 2000 until I came to a complete stop. After a couple seconds they would drop to 900 or so and remain there until I start moving again.
b) The thermostat likely needs replacing. Car didn't warm much this past winter and the temp gauge stayed about 1/4, which it seams to mean it's stuck open. I will replace, but don't think this should affect starting the car.
c) I've tried starting both foot off the gas and wide open throttle with the gas pedal to the floor. No gas I just get cranking with no hint of firing. Full Gas I get a little bit of stuttering/almost starting/misfiring until I let off the starter.
d) Pulled codes the night after it quit: They don't seam relevant to the no start, but they are: P1133, P1404, P0442, P0401.

So what next? With my long commute I don't want to keep driving my 13 mpg truck.

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Old 04-24-2018, 10:23 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

I'd have bought/rented a compression tester long before buying all those parts. Should be 180psi or higher across all 4 cylinders. Rent a fuel pressure tester at the same time, that should show over 45psi and not leak down more than 8psi in 10 minutes.

Cheapest thing to check now, I think, is the timing chain. Pull the valve cover off and see what it looks like on the cam gears.

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Old 04-24-2018, 10:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Go back to the beginning and check both compression and fuel pressure with gauges. Just seeing a spurt at the fuel-rail isn't good enough; it is hard (impossible?) to reliably tell if the pressure is correct.

Have you checked for spark? I don't think I saw that mentioned. Also, try disabling fuel (pull injector fuses) and using a quick blast of starting-fluid, see if it will fire briefly like that. Let's see if this is *only* a fueling problem.


Were the plugs wet with fuel after one of these "crank, no start" episodes?

Check for injector pulsing, when cranking, using a voltmeter or "noid light".

Use live-data to check various sensors, like MAP/ECT/IAT/TP, before throwing parts at it. Yes, getting the tools to check things will cost some money, but might already have been paid for with the cost of parts that weren't really needed. Besides, tools can be used again-and-again on this car or others.

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Old 04-24-2018, 07:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
....After I got home I tried to start it again and it would crank fine but not fire..... 3) New copper plugs and new wires. I did check for spark on every wire by using one of the new plugs on each wire. Spark looks fine.
Spark means the crank sensor is working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
6) Checked for blocked Cat in the exhaust by removing the upper O2 sensor in the manifold and blowing air from the output on my shop vac up the tail pipe. Plenty of air flow out the O2 hole. Installed a new O2 sensor. I do have a new down stream O2 Sensor but haven't installed it yet.
Since the engine won't run at all, exhaust blockage can be easily tested by just leaving the front O2 sensor off. The alternate exhaust hole allows breathing for starting and driving around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
8) Replaced Crankshaft Position Sensor on the block above the starter.
Since spark is verified with a spark test, replacing the crank sensor wasn't necessary but you have a spare anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
9) Checked for fuel pressure. I can hear the fuel pump working and there is a squirt of fuel when I press the schrader valve at the fuel rail.
Three ways to check for fuel; remove spark plugs and examine them for fuel especially after several failed starting attempts that should have flooded the engine, use a loaner f/p gauge from Autozone or Advance Auto or spray starting fluid into the throttle body. If starting occurs with starting fluid, the fuel system is suspect; fuse, relay, wiring to pump, pump, pump ground and fuel filter. Filter should be replaced every 100k miles. Check for a blown injector fuse too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
10) Looked into the security system locking me out. I don't believe this to be the case since the security light on the dash comes up fine when first starting but then turns off like it is supposed to after a couple seconds. It doesn't stay lit or blink or anything. Also since I seem to be getting spark properly I don't think this is it.
Passlock security, when flashing/blinking quickly means injectors are deliberately disabled to prevent the engine from running. Passlock does not disable spark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
Some other info:
a) Before it quit running, when coming to a stop in neutral the RPM's would be about 2000 until I came to a complete stop. After a couple seconds they would drop to 900 or so and remain there until I start moving again.
The idle air control valve may be sticking as it controls all idle speeds as commanded by the pcm. The mechanical throttle stop positions the throttle plate for 500-600 rpm with the bypass air port (in front of throttle plate) blocked. If someone meddled with the throttle stop screw then returning from high rpm to idle may be affected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
b) The thermostat likely needs replacing. Car didn't warm much this past winter and the temp gauge stayed about 1/4, which it seams to mean it's stuck open. I will replace, but don't think this should affect starting the car.
The worn t-stat keeps the engine cooler than normal and the pcm keeps a higher idle as it believes the engine hasn't fully warmed up. Replace the t-stat asap.

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Old 04-25-2018, 08:12 AM   #5
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2000 SL2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

I appreciate the replies!

I didn't have a ton of time last night but I did do the following:

Rented a fuel pressure test. At first it wasn't moving off of zero so I thought it must be the fuel pump. Then my neighbor wanted to check his truck. I hooked it up to it and at first it too was at zero so I said to myself this can't be right unless the gauge is bad. Had him start and run the truck for a while and it slowly built pressure up to ~40 psi. Think the gauge might have been sticking or something. Hooked it back up to my Saturn and it now came up to 44 psi and held steady.

Also rented a compression test gauge and did the "dry" compression test. I didn't read about the "wet" test until after it was too late to do. Unless something is seriously wrong, I think I did get a bad gauge for this test. The needle would bounce around while cranking, but never stick at the high point. I mean it would instantly drop back to zero. This happened for every cylinder. This made it kind of hard to tell the high point, but all the cylinders seemed to bounce up and read between ~140 and 155 which is quite a bit lower than then 180 mentioned. I should have hooked it up to another engine to confirm if the gauge was bad but didn't think of that until after I went to bed. I may return the compression tester and ask for a different one if they have one to try this test again and also the wet test.

Some more comments addressing the various posts:
I did try starting it with the upper O2 sensor off figuring it would provide an "out" if the cat was blocked. Blowing air backwards was a sanity check.

I don't recall the plugs being wet with fuel when I pulled them but I think I tired the WOT starting right before pulling them which might have burned off the fuel since it sort of fires/misfires when I do this. Since I've ran the test with the gauge and it came up to 44psi, it seems fuel is making it to the fuel rail. I have not changed the fuel filter which is probably due, but it still seams to work since the pressure is there. I did not check injector fuse (anyone know which one it is, though I'm sure I can google it. Car didn't come with a manual). Billr mentioned: Check for injector pulsing, when cranking, using a voltmeter or "noid light". I do have a voltmeter. I haven't done this sort of test but will look into trying it as well after I make sure the fuse is good. Anything else to check concerning the injectors? I didn't try starting with starting fluid yet but will try to test that tonight too.

I have the new T-stat but am not going to install until after I get the car running again.

Live data will require a better device than the one I used to pull the codes. That was a cheepo one I borrowed from my brother. It didn't have a cable so I had to plug it in directly and of course this put the display facing down so I couldn't read it while plugged in. I'm not sure if it does live data or not. I do have a nice USB cable, but it was for VAGCOM for Audi/VW's. I don't think it can be used for other makes. I know the software doesn't support other makes anyway.

I don't have much time tonight so it might be Friday before I respond back with more results. Thanks for the input so far!

As far as all the various parts I've bought and installed. Well overall I don't think I'm into them for more than about $100 which is less than 1 hour shop time someplace and certainly didn't hurt anything. I am slightly surprised no one hit me with this though :

pics.me.me/the-parts-cannon-because-sometimes-you-just-dont-have-a-472442.png - Link not allowed since I'm too new a user. Add https:// to the beginning if the file name isn't enough for ya!

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Old 04-25-2018, 11:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Sorry, I missed that you had already checked for spark.

The compression gauge is almost certainly bad, and if it "bounces" up above 100 on any one stroke, your compression is probably good enough for it to fire and start. If you do take compression again, don't bother with the wet test. Worn rings/bore on these engines seems to be very rare.

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Old 04-25-2018, 12:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

https://www.autocodes.com/p1133_chevrolet.html

Code P1133 is indicative of your upstream O2(Heated) sensor and should clear, UNLESS you have a vacuum leak somewhere. This can also affect starting.

https://www.engine-codes.com/p1404_chevrolet.html

This P1404 and the P0401 will clear once drive cycles are completed, as these were the result of EGR block off.

https://www.obd-codes.com/p0442

You have a leak in the EVAP system, somewhere, and this shouldn't cause too big of an issue, and certainly doesn't cause a "No Start" condition.

As far as compression, you should get a working compression test gauge. You have verified both fuel pressure AND spark.

So, we can confirm the Ignition Control Module, Coil Packs, and Crank Position Sensor are good.

This leaves only TWO possibilities that would cause your condition:

The PCM needs to be replaced
Mechanical Failure of Internal Engine components(Pistons/Valves Burnt, Cracked Head/Head Gasket, snapped/skipped timing chain).

I would concur that the Security system is to be in working condition, as the symptoms of a dead BCM are a flashing or solid security light remaining on.

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Old 04-25-2018, 12:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
Sorry, I missed that you had already checked for spark.

The compression gauge is almost certainly bad, and if it "bounces" up above 100 on any one stroke, your compression is probably good enough for it to fire and start. If you do take compression again, don't bother with the wet test. rings/bore on these engines seems to be very rare
This is only true of the cylinder sleeves, Billr. The sticking oil control rings leaving oil on the cylinder wall(hence why they burn so much oil), would likely be why the bores do not wear.

However, the rings usually disintegrate on severely-abused engines, which can cause compression losses.

My '95 SC2 was losing almost 40HP on its original engine, due to the rings and valve stem seals being shot, causing compression losses. Right before I burnt the #3 cylinder exhaust valve, it was getting hard to start in severely cold weather, began backfiring upon re-aceleration from extended highway coasting, and started throwing a Code 45 for exhaust being too rich.

OP, redo the compression test, with a good gauge. Make sure that all cylinders are above 180psi, with less than 4 psi variance between highest recorded cylinder and lowest recorded cylinder.



To perform the test, block the throttle plate wide open. Make sure the battery is FULLY charged and the engine makes at least 10 revolution on each test. Pull the PCM B fuse to disable the injectors. Pull the spark plugs.

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Old 04-25-2018, 12:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

"...leaving oil on the cylinder wall..."

Hmm, that implies you are always doing a "wet test". It can't hurt any to do a retest, though; I'll certainly agree with you there.

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Old 04-25-2018, 11:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Ewb4arch, every new member trying to post pics run into problems when its more about the file size and image format. If its from a cellphone or digital camera, every image created is large, around a few megabytes for high resolution but unnecessary and too large as thumbnail attachments. Simply use Paint or your image software to resize to around a megabyte and reformat (if necessary) to jpeg and try again. Attachments are limited to 150 kb but I've attached images over a megabyte in size (in jpeg) without issues. Most members aren't aware of high res images from cellphones and cameras and find it difficult to attach their pics here when there's an easy work around. As others have found, images hosted on other sites eventually fail for whatever reason when its just easier to insert images here. They remain permanent on this site since a link isn't needed to find images on another hard drive that may stop hosting images.

Unfortunately, loaner tools sometimes become abused or wear out. That's the nature of borrowing tools when "they're not mine so who cares?". Compression gauges have a few moving parts and either the sealing gasket or schrader valve wears out. The schrader valve is the same tire valve in tires. Fuel pressure gauges either work or damaged from mishandling. Even with 44 psi, the next check is to find out if injectors are firing. Instead of using noid lights or measuring injector voltages (tricky), simply removing spark plugs after several starting attempts should result in wet smelling plugs. If not sure of injectors operating with pressures to feed them, spray starting fluid into the throttle body. If spark is good then the engine should fire up immediately. Either injectors are firing or not as long as fuel under pressure is feeding the fuel rail. No tools, noid lights or multimeter are needed unless they're available or borrowed from Autozone/Advance Auto.

Below are both fuse panels for your car.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Untitled-1.jpg (156.0 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Untitled-2.jpg (142.8 KB, 3 views)

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Old 04-26-2018, 07:46 AM   #11
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2000 SL2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Ok so here's the update. Not looking good.

I got a different compression gauge set and retested (dry) the compression. This time from drivers side (1) to passenger side (4) the results were: (1) = 145 (2) = 140 (3) = 177 (4) = 189

So it appears something not quite right with #1 and #2.

I also attempted to start it with starting fluid by spraying into the throttle body. It actually started! Unfortunately it ran EXTREMELY rough. I'm talking engine bucking bad, shaking the whole car. There was also a sound like a marble banging around inside the engine. It also smoked out my whole garage. Surprisingly the check engine light didn't come on nor any other service light. Did this last night.

Just for giggles I attempted to start it this morning without starting fluid. It took a couple trys but did start, again running extremely rough. The marble banging sound was still present but perhaps not quite as frequent, every second or two instead of a few times a second like last night. I had to stay on the gas about half throttle or it would just about stall out.

Looks like it's time to pull the valve cover gasket to see what I can see. This will be venturing into uncharted areas for me but perhaps it's something obvious. I may double check to the plug wire order in case I somehow messed that up. I was pretty careful to change one wire at a time though.

I appreciate all the input thus far.

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Old 04-26-2018, 08:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

You have two dead cylinders, by the looks of that compression test.

Use this website to look for a replacement engine:

www.car-part.com

Don't purchase a used engine, without hearing and seeing it run first. These engines are notorious for oil consumption without ever smoking. Most yards will only warranty the engine for 30 days, but most do not always start them to verify that the engines are good. They will not warranty labor to change them, unless they are doing the labor at that specific yard.

And I have only seen one yard that actually does both repairs and salvage at the same time.

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Old 04-26-2018, 01:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

From the compression readings and the way it runs/sounds, I kind of suspect the timing chain has slipped somehow. You should be able to confirm by removing the valve cover.

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Old 04-27-2018, 09:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

ewb4arch-

Nice problem ... sorry for that!

Fdryer- " The idle air control valve may be sticking "

SaturnNight- Evap issue (or maybe leaking at InMan)

I would have labeled thread, 'starts, stopped, no start'.

Agree with Billr, that comp probably OK. Rare that develop severe mechanical issues that suddenly, cold, without symptomatic Noise.

I think your IAC valve is sticking.
Both the spark and fuel can be operational... but engine Not run if the IAC sticks at a bad place (ie, sticks Out of Range for the desired/indicated rpm, namely idle-or-starting.
* *

Your latest comp test results are concerning... but i think they would not cause No Start condition. {might suggest look for new engine within several months}.
* *
>> " I'm talking engine bucking bad, shaking the whole car. There was also a sound like a marble banging around inside the engine. It also smoked out my whole garage. "

This is very troubling... could well suggest, as Billr notes, jumped TimingChain.

But if it starts to run smoother/better (as maybe indicated) , the IAC may be moving back within range.
* *

Worst case, the two adjacent cylinders with low compression suffered a head gasket failure Between them; and the TC jumped... and the marble banging is the sound that the rod/bearing makes when the piston contacts the head/valve, or garbage (broken valve) between the piston and head.
If the TC jumped, the valve may contact the piston, because the timing function is compromised.

Realizing time is an issue, still suggest move methodically, take dated/timed Notes to keep track what you find.

good luck , godspeed...

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Old 04-27-2018, 10:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Wouldn't a slipped chain cause all four cylinders to show odd compression numbers?

Battery starting to run a little low partway through testing can also lead to lower compression readings.

In this thread, check madpogue's suggestion - two low adjacent cylinders may be a head gasket. Also check post 19,
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=140960

So, you have marble clanking sound every few seconds, while the engine is at half throttle (around 3k rpms)?

No recent maintenance was done before the issue showed up?

How is the oil level?

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Old 04-30-2018, 08:08 AM   #16
Ewb4arch
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2000 SL2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Pulled the valve cover to see what I could see. It's a little crusty in there but looks like this all might come down to a timing chain issue.

When I first pulled it the chain was tight between the two cam gears. Rotating the engine a little bit, the chain was now VERY loose. See attached photos. I'm pushing down pretty hard in the one with it tight. I suspect the chain slapping was the marbles banging around that I heard while it was running poorly.

I did have a hard time finding/seeing the colored links used to align everything to TDC which I suppose doesn't matter until I'm actually changing the chain.

To address some of the other comments:
When doing the compression test, I had a 6 amp charger hooked up and the two low compression cylinders were tested first then again last. Tested pretty much the same both times so I don't think a weak battery affected the test.

This car does burn oil. It did get a little low (but not all the way to a dry dip stick) once right after I bought it before I got in the habit of checking it often. That was months ago and I've kept it between the marks since then.

No other maintenance engine wise lately. Did do a wheel hub, front end tie rods, control arms, brakes, and some exhaust pipes though.

Not sure where I want to go with this car from here. It's sort of an "extra" car, but it's also the most fuel efficient and while the oldest car we own it's also got the least miles at 118k.

Seems to me the minimum to get it running again would be to replace the chain. If I'm that far into it, it might make sense to pull the head and fix the head gasket which is likely the compression problem on two of the cylinders. I've also heard of over sizing the rings on the pistons to help with the oil burn. I've never done anything like that but I believe I would need to pull the engine completely out to access the bottom end and basically rebuild it to do that, right?

eBay's got rebuilt head for $310. A local junkyard has a complete used engine for $500, but it likely has higher miles and probably burns as much or more oil though I haven't called or looked at it. The photos lead me to believe it may still be in the car.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TimingChainTight.jpg (116.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg TimingChainLoose.jpg (118.2 KB, 10 views)

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Old 04-30-2018, 10:21 AM   #17
Saturn Night
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1995 SC2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewb4arch View Post
Pulled the valve cover to see what I could see. It's a little crusty in there but looks like this all might come down to a timing chain issue.

When I first pulled it the chain was tight between the two cam gears. Rotating the engine a little bit, the chain was now VERY loose. See attached photos. I'm pushing down pretty hard in the one with it tight. I suspect the chain slapping was the marbles banging around that I heard while it was running poorly.

I did have a hard time finding/seeing the colored links used to align everything to TDC which I suppose doesn't matter until I'm actually changing the chain.
Your timing chain is fine. You have a blown head gasket or a cracked cylinder head. Here is a video showing that the slack you are experiencing is normal, on the exhaust stroke. You can't see the tensioner, but it tightens the chain the crank sprocket and lower guides, when there is slack between the cams. The tensioner is self-adjusting.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfFUM5AX7U

Quote:
To address some of the other comments:
When doing the compression test, I had a 6 amp charger hooked up and the two low compression cylinders were tested first then again last. Tested pretty much the same both times so I don't think a weak battery affected the test.

This car does burn oil. It did get a little low (but not all the way to a dry dip stick) once right after I bought it before I got in the habit of checking it often. That was months ago and I've kept it between the marks since then.
Try to keep the engine between 2 diamonds below and the the first "L" of FULL.

Quote:
Seems to me the minimum to get it running again would be to replace the chain. If I'm that far into it, it might make sense to pull the head and fix the head gasket which is likely the compression problem on two of the cylinders. I've also heard of over sizing the rings on the pistons to help with the oil burn. I've never done anything like that but I believe I would need to pull the engine completely out to access the bottom end and basically rebuild it to do that, right?
Your timing chain is fine. Pull the head and check for cracks. And yes, the bottom end needs to be rebuilt to correct the oil consumption issues with these engines. Federal Mogul makes pistons, under their Sealed Power brand, with the required drain back holes for about $120 per set of 4.
Quote:
eBay's got rebuilt head for $310. A local junkyard has a complete used engine for $500, but it likely has higher miles and probably burns as much or more oil though I haven't called or looked at it. The photos lead me to believe it may still be in the car.
I can almost guarantee that the valves were NOT replaced in this head, and only new stem seals were installed. The parts to perform a valve job, alone, are in excess of $500. Vibration of worn valve stems are a contributor to why valve stem seals begin leaking. Do NOT buy that head!!!!!

Heed my advice on buying a complete used engine. You are looking at about 8-14 hrs of labor to swap a complete engine, if you have automatic, because you can pull it out the top. If you have a manual, you are dropping it out the bottom to change it.

Even doing the head gasket will require the timing chain to be pulled, so make sure you order the Mahle front timing cover gasket kit, which will provide new o-rings for the oil pump to properly seal.

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Old 04-30-2018, 11:21 AM   #18
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1998 SC2
Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

The engine with manual transmission will come out the top with no real problems. Trying to drop a rusty cradle is a major headache and well beyond the usual tool set of the DIY mechanic.

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Old 04-30-2018, 11:43 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

My opinion? That chain is definitely not "fine"! A chain guide or the tensioner has probably failed. Worse yet, I think it is more likely some valves are bent than the head gasket being the only compression problem.

I would remove the cams, so that all valves are firmly shut and do a leak-down type test to get some more clues.

Doing the head/chain doesn't require removing the engine. Yes, access to the timing cover isn't great, but certainly easier than removing the whole engine. Don't even think about going after the rings just to reduce oil burn. You can buy a lot of oil for the cost of that total rebuild.

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Old 04-30-2018, 03:43 PM   #20
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 2000 SL2 Crank, No Start. Already did "All the things"

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
The engine with manual transmission will come out the top with no real problems. Trying to drop a rusty cradle is a major headache and well beyond the usual tool set of the DIY mechanic.
Not with the clutch disc, pressure plate, and flywheel still bolted to the back of the crankshaft.

Even with the automatic, I had to remove the harmonic balancer to get enough clearance to pull my own engine out the top of my engine bay. I spent 14 HOURS using hand tools on every single bolt, removing everything that was needed to be removed, to perform the swap.

This is one I speak from experience with.

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