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Old 02-15-2019, 09:08 AM   #1
bitterman
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Default Brake issues HELP PLEASE

Good morning.

I have an issue with the brakes on my 2006 Saturn Vue 2.2. Here are the specs on what is going on and then my issue. My Vue has 188k on the clock. I just fitted new front calipers and rear wheel cylinders along with new pads and shoes. Reason for replacementÖ still original equipment and brakes were starting to seep brake fluid.

I now have all new parts installed and Iím in the process of bleeding the brakes. I have good pressure at the passenger rear and all is good. I cannot get the drivers side rear brake to property work. It will either apply the brake for a split second and release the pressure or it seems like it will stick and not release. Also when applying the brake, if I continue normal pedal pressure, I can get the pedal to slowly push to the floor.

There are no fluid leaks anywhere. I have also successfully bleed the line going to the drivers rear wheel cylinder.

My thoughts are either a malfunctioning wheel cylinder on the drivers rear or possibly the master cylinder is failing?

Again, brakes are solid at the passenger rear and also at driver and passenger front brakes. Just this issue with the drivers rear.

Iím open to all thoughts and comments. Maybe I overlooked something or got something wrong.

Thank you.

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Old 02-16-2019, 09:30 PM   #2
KCW
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

what order did you use to bleed the brakes?

I think on the Vue the front right and rear left are a pair, the front left and rear right are the other pair.

if you dont bleed each pair rear to front, you can get air on one side that will just bubble back and forth... for example, if you bled the front brakes on both sides first, then did the rear.

Look carefully at the brake lines, see if they go thru the frame anywhere. It could be leaking inside the frame (had that happen, entire quart of brake fluid pumped in before it finally started to leak out thru a hole in the frame! )

Only other thing I can suggest is pull the rear hub off again (drum brakes, yes?) and make sure the shoes and springs are all hooked in correctly. If a brake shoe is not hooked into the slave cylinder, eventually the cylinder will blow out the end while you are pumping it.

One more thing: someone is helping you pump the brakes? short version: my son was stepping on the clutch pedal instead of the brake pedal, and NOTHING was bleeding thru...

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Old 02-18-2019, 12:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

KCW,

Thank you for this info. i was unaware of how the brakeswere paired. I was bleeding rear right, rear left, front right, front left.

i'll try the method you suggested and see how it goes. I do have a helper and I do have drum brakes on the rear of the Vue. In your opinion, is gravity bleeding a good method for brake bleeding for this system or is having a helper two man style best.

Thank you

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Old 02-18-2019, 11:59 AM   #4
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2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

Brake bleeding pairing info posted by KCW will probably put you on correct path.

I've attached GM service manual pressure bleed extract if it'll come in handy.

Don't know if you have ABS but if you do and all else fails there might be air trapped in ABS - BPMV.

I've attached procedure for doing ABS automated bleed but you'll see steps call for using specialized test equipment.

I've also attached ABS operating description just in case you want to know more.

For what its worth I take care of four family Vue's (05, 06 and two 07) - all have ABS - and have replaced many front and rear brake parts including fluid refresh and have yet to encounter a problem with air in ABS - BPMV.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 06 Vue - Brake Bleed.pdf (19.1 KB, 13 views)
File Type: pdf ABS Brake Bleed Automated.pdf (15.1 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf 06 Vue - ABS D & O.pdf (30.2 KB, 5 views)

...
I try to visit forum often but suggest you use private messages if in a rush (comes to cell) and include email address for extracts. I seldom check visitor messages so please don't use.

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Old 02-18-2019, 02:30 PM   #5
KCW
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Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

I forgot about the ABS stuff.... Normally if you replace a caliper or a wheel cylinder, the fluid does not drain all the way back to the ABS... But if you had the front caliper off and the rear wheel cylinder off at the same time, it might all flow thru.

The other thing you have to be careful of, is to not let the fluid reservoir run dry and pump air into the master, or the ABS.

I have always done the 2 man pump pump hold - bleed close (repeat) deal.

I got one of those suction pumps that is suppose to suck the fluid thru the bleeder valve. It sucks alright.. never got it to work right. It is good for emptying the fluid reservoir and refilling with new fluid.

The pressure system is the best way to go. Costs the most however.

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Old 02-18-2019, 09:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

I've always used a vacuum bleeder and never had an issue with low or soft brakes on a Vue. Starting from the nearest wheel back to the farthest from the master cylinder. If that doesn't get a firm pedal, I reverse the order. Gravity bleeding is an option but could take hours and you run the risk of the master cylinder running dry. I just finished a complete brake job and while I didn't change a caliper or wheel cylinder, I did flush the fluid and clean the reservoir and now you have to remove the cap to see the fluid level now, it's so clear.

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Old 02-18-2019, 10:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

Hey guys, thanks for all the help. I am still struggling with pedal pressure but as luck would have it, I believe I may have figured it out. Huge rookie mistake on my part. I think I installed the front calipers on the wrong sides. The bleeder screw is facing down. Correct me if I'm wrong but this would make it all but impossible to bleed out the system.

Gonna try swapping the calipers tomorrow and rebleed the brakes again. I'll post again after I have this done for an update.

Thanks guys. Your help is much appreciated. I was bleeding the brakes in the wrong order.

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Old 02-20-2019, 10:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

Well, that was it. Switched the calipers to the opposite side aka the correct side and bingo. Now pressure is back and a solid pedal.

After a short test drive to break in the pads/shoes everything still feels solid.

Thanks again for all the knowledge and help.

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Old 02-22-2019, 09:03 PM   #9
KCW
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

you swapped the calipers back to the right side before I saw your post

sometimes you need a caliper and they only have in stock the wrong side. There is something you could have done: if you took the caliper off its bracket keeping the hose connected, you could have jammed something between the pads and bleed the caliper with the bleeder valve pointing up, then put it back on the rotor.

That will work in a pinch but you did the right thing and put them where they should be.

Im glad it was not something more painful, like a soft master cylinder, or some ABS nightmare.

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Old 02-22-2019, 09:05 PM   #10
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2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Brake issues HELP PLEASE

Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
... I did flush the fluid and clean the reservoir and now you have to remove the cap to see the fluid level now, it's so clear.
.
nicely done. I also like your floor jacks and stands from another post about jacking up all 4 wheels.

Ive seen several of your posts, you do nice work.

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