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Old 07-12-2009, 08:02 PM   #1
RichBrown
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1991 SC
1995 SC2
Dizzy Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Just a recap:

Burning 1qt every 200 miles. (29-33mpg) 133,000 mi bluesmoke @ high rpm

Guy from saturn took a quick over and states it may just be the valve stem seals... Sooo I've purchased the following so far:

1 Rebuilt Head complete.
1 Head Gasket Kit
1 Valve Cover Gasket Kit
1 Timing Chain Set

Will I be able to replace the rings with the head off and should I?.. I'm running low on funds so far What's your opinions.. If do the rings dont I need to have it honed? It also needs a clutch so I may just have to pull it entirely.. Sorry for my ignorance, first time digging this far into the engine..

...
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saturn@mhvnet.com
Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-12-2009, 08:30 PM   #2
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

OldNuc wrote: If ther is absolutely no metal top ridge then you can push the pistons out the top and re-ring them with standard rings. There will be a carbon ridge that you have to remove first. Drill the drain holes and make about 3 to 6 pases with a 320 grit bottle brush hone. Use lots of saran wrap to keep the grit out of the good parts and wash down with hot soapy water. Do not try and pull a piston out the bottom. It will lock in the grove below the liner and will have to be removed in small pieces.

New rod and main bearings are not a bad idea either.

...
Richard Brown
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Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-12-2009, 08:47 PM   #3
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

You are burning way too much oil to be dumping it all down the valve guides. Definite ring job. Look in the classified here as someone was selling a bottle brush hone.

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Old 07-12-2009, 08:57 PM   #4
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1995 SC2
Roll Eyes Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

I am still driving this car.. after purchasing a rebuilt head, should I now just grab a block from a junk yard with less mileage as a donor? As far as I can tell they are nearly all interchangeable? this way I can rebuild and throw the valve cover on last before installation?

...
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Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
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1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-13-2009, 08:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

I would think that at 133k the block would still be ok to use. Unless it's been used really hard or all stop/go traffic the cylinders should be ok. I used a 170k mile block (all hwy miles) for my daughters '93 with nothing more than a quick hone job and it runs great and doesn't burn a drop of oil.

The oil burning you are seeing is almost without a doubt stuck oil rings. The opinon of many here (me too) is the piston design is poor. There is information on this page about how to modify your pistons to prevent it from happening again or you could take the route I did. I bought a new set of speed pro pistons from my local autoparts store. I believe I paid about $125 for the new pistons.

Remember, that if you are going this far you might want to throw a new timing chain on it too.

Also remember, the valve seals in a dohc are not really that easy to replace. It takes some special tools so make sure you have the tools you need before you jump in.

Highmile
'95 SL1 409k and counting
'93 SL2 130k and counting (daughters car)

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Old 07-13-2009, 08:21 AM   #6
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBrown View Post
I am still driving this car.. after purchasing a rebuilt head, should I now just grab a block from a junk yard with less mileage as a donor? As far as I can tell they are nearly all interchangeable? this way I can rebuild and throw the valve cover on last before installation?
A core engine is about a 100.00 part or less. So having an engine rebuilt and ready to go makes life very easy. This swap guide tells you what swaps. http://saturnwiki.org/index.php/Swap_Guide
Rebuilding the spare is the easiest way to do the job. That way there is no rush to get the daily driver going again. All of the aluminum parts can go out to be dipped and cleaned. And that does beat the heck out of scrubbing in the frame, or in the kitchen sink. The list of benefits gets longer.

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Old 07-13-2009, 08:47 PM   #7
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1995 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Every block I can find is 160-200$ from a junk yard.. $140 from a pick and pull.. any suggestions?

Also, ANYONE in NY want to give me a have rebuilding this.. Obviously someone who has performed this before.. Thanks..

Thanks Guys!

...
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Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-13-2009, 08:48 PM   #8
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Thumbs Up Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
A core engine is about a 100.00 part or less. So having an engine rebuilt and ready to go makes life very easy. This swap guide tells you what swaps. http://saturnwiki.org/index.php/Swap_Guide
Rebuilding the spare is the easiest way to do the job. That way there is no rush to get the daily driver going again. All of the aluminum parts can go out to be dipped and cleaned. And that does beat the heck out of scrubbing in the frame, or in the kitchen sink. The list of benefits gets longer.
OLDNUC man you are awesome! I've been away from Saturns for soo long its nice to see people still love them! It was many years ago when I owned my plethora of SC's Thanks !

...
Richard Brown
saturn@mhvnet.com
Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-13-2009, 09:31 PM   #9
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

You can search for a core block here.
http://car-part.com/

They are nice basic reliable cars. Basic is good because all of the gingerbread costs real money to fix when it breaks.

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Old 07-18-2009, 01:11 AM   #10
RichBrown
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1995 SC2
Wrench Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

WELL The teardown was successful! The head/block bolts were a fuss but they eventually came free... Scraping, Cleaning and Hottank next. woohoo!! I have a few questions now.

Q1. The cylinder's still have clean hone marks and I don't believe they need any work, nice crisscross pattern still. The hottank will not mess any of that up?

Q2. The pistons show some hotspots on top or wear marks, you can see it in the pics.. Should I replace? or just clean and re-ring?

Q3. If you look at the Crankshaft pics there are very minor scratches, nothing my finger nail could catch on. All in all I was surprised after seeing the funked up head that nothing looked too bad aside from the pistons in the block.

Q4. The same minor scratches are on the piston shaft bearings, just replace all the bearings? Can I re-use the shafts? they look ok to me LoL.

Q5. The timing chain looked brand new, no play at all.. The one I bought is aftermarket $80 on ebay. I hear the OEM is better, should I reuse or just put on the new one?

Thats about it...

Thanks for all your answers people! I appreciate the help!

1995 DOHC 1.9L Donor


Valve Cover Removed


Timing Chain -Looked brand new! no play at all..


Holy Carbon Balls of Oil.. Mmmm Tasty


Cylinder #1


Cylinder #2 (most of that is from turning over the engine with some oil left somewhere..)


Cylinder #3


Cylinder #4


Piston #1


Piston #1 w/wear


Bearings


Crankshaft wear


Crankshaft wear


How tranquil it is out of the engine


What do you think people?

Rich

...
Richard Brown
saturn@mhvnet.com
Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-18-2009, 02:15 AM   #11
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBrown View Post
WELL The teardown was successful! The head/block bolts were a fuss but they eventually came free... Scraping, Cleaning and Hottank next. woohoo!! I have a few questions now.

Q1. The cylinder's still have clean hone marks and I don't believe they need any work, nice crisscross pattern still. The hottank will not mess any of that up?

A1. Measure them. the hone marks are cut in with a very coarse diamond hone and are close to 10 thou deep, thats almost a 20thou bore to clean them out. Check for a ridge at the top of the cylinder, clean the carbon off with a oiled scotch brite and then feel the ridge with your fingernail.

Q2. The pistons show some hotspots on top or wear marks, you can see it in the pics.. Should I replace? or just clean and re-ring?

A2. first measure the cylinders. if you have to bore then you can replace the pistons. If the wear is 3 thousands or less then it will be time to evaluate the pistons. You do that by cleaning and measuring.

Q3. If you look at the Crankshaft pics there are very minor scratches, nothing my finger nail could catch on. All in all I was surprised after seeing the funked up head that nothing looked too bad aside from the pistons in the block.

A3. Once again measure and maybe you get away with a polish. The max clearance with a standard bearing should be .001 to .0015 and if its more then its either a new used crank or a regrind. Low Saturn has cranks I believe.

Q4. The same minor scratches are on the piston shaft bearings, just replace all the bearings? Can I re-use the shafts? they look ok to me LoL.

A4. I assume that by "piston shaft" you mean the rod journal on the crank. Same answer as above, measure and if lucky polish.

Q5. The timing chain looked brand new, no play at all.. The one I bought is aftermarket $80 on ebay. I hear the OEM is better, should I reuse or just put on the new one?

A5. Buy a Cloyes complete timing set. The sprockets wear to the chain and a new chain is instantly trashed by used sprockets.

Thats about it...

Thanks for all your answers people! I appreciate the help!

What do you think people?

Rich
Whoever is going to hot tank the aluminum parts can do the measuring. I assume that it is a rebuild shop. They can probably do you right on gaskets and headbolts also. You are disassembling and cleaning those lifters, right?

Take a ruler and measure how much round shaft is sticking out of teh chain tensioner. It looks like its done for. The part of the piston you want to look at is the 2 thrust faces on the skirt, not the top. The top is fine. look at the 2 sides 90 degrees to the wrist pin axis.

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Old 07-18-2009, 02:53 AM   #12
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1991 SC
1995 SC2
Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Brand New Rebuilt head Should be here tomorrow!

...
Richard Brown
saturn@mhvnet.com
Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-18-2009, 10:40 AM   #13
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1995 SC2
Question Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

I'm hearing alot of yaa/Naa about hot tanking.. I realize the alternative is hard work and sweat, is there a product I can pick up at a local parts store or hardware that would make it easier? I know of some nasty stuff I cant remember the name of but I'd hate to corrode the crap out of anything..

...
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Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-18-2009, 11:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Strip the aluminum parts down and take them to the shop along with the crank and flywheel if its a manual. Get the flywheel surfaced and teh crank measured. Clean the aluminum and measure the bores. It will be money well spent. there is absolutely nothing that you can legally buy or dispose of that will clean that aluminum.

You can buy a gallon or 2 of this stuff and clean your smallparts like pistons, lifters etc.
The gallon Can of this stuff is available at your parts store.
http://www.berrymanproducts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=146
Or you can order some of this stuff.
http://www.orisonmarketing.com/clean...on/carbon.html

The cost of the chemicals and brushes for a DIY block and timing cover cleaning will exceed the usual charge at a shop. And you do not have to spend several days doing it. You need real hot water for the best ricing also. What will your wife or mother say about washing the block in the bath tub?

I suspect that some peoples definition of "clean" is different than mine.....

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Old 07-18-2009, 11:35 AM   #15
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
What will your wife or mother say about washing the block in the bath tub?
You should see what they say when you do it in the dishwasher.

...
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

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Old 07-18-2009, 01:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

The dishwasher does a real good job on small parts.

That is almost as good as curing GunCote in the oven while she is out and she comes back before you get the smell ventilated out off the house.

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Old 07-18-2009, 06:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

A $10 gallon of Purple Power, a spray bottle and some small brushes is plenty to clean the block and everything else during your rebuild. You will be amazed out how easy the grime comes off with this stuff. Just rinse with water when done.

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Old 07-18-2009, 09:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackeagle1 View Post
A $10 gallon of Purple Power, a spray bottle and some small brushes is plenty to clean the block and everything else during your rebuild. You will be amazed out how easy the grime comes off with this stuff. Just rinse with water when done.
Your damn right!! although I bought a bucket doe $24 and just let the parts sits for about 5 minutes and wiped/washed them down.. AWESOME difference.








...
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saturn@mhvnet.com
Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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Old 07-18-2009, 09:46 PM   #19
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

You still get to pay to measure the crank and bores. If you drag it in and they clean it the cost is minimal as they are looking at the potential additional work. You have to buy your timing set, pistons (if required), rings, bearings, gasket set, and head bolts somewhere. You will get a better price than anywhere else from the local guy if you play it right.

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Old 07-18-2009, 09:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: Rebuilding 95 DOHC SC2

I dont have access to a micrometer but I used my butties dial something so I don't know if its accurate but the piston measured 3.226 and the book says minimum is 3.233? Now the odd thing is the cylinder somehow measured 3.224? How is that possible? fyi there was NO carbon edge when I removed the head. I plan on bringing the block, pistons, and crank to a shop on Wednesday for a look over. Also going to have it hottanked while I'm there.. damn I wish these places were open on the weekend!

...
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Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

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