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Old 06-24-2007, 02:35 PM   #1
skewbe
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Default one more auto to manual swap down

FINALLY, got it all back together!!! a 97 sw2 auto with manual parts from a 92 sl1.

This thing is smooth, and I'm able to get phenominal mpg with it (50mpg without trying too hard, 65mpg with a lot of patience around town).

Thanks to all who've shared their experiences!!!
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

If you put this information in the sun for a few days, you can sell it as fertilizer.
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Old 06-24-2007, 03:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

50-65MPG? Yeah, I got a bridge for sale, too. How about 30-35MPG, that's a little more realistic.
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Old 06-24-2007, 04:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Sheesh guys, I said 50-65mpg and I meant it (though 65 is a lot of work and the soccer moms will be leaning on their horns .

Hang out at http://gassavers.org and see how it's done You don't need a hybrid to get better mpg.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

How about some real numbers to back it up?
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Ok, here's my real, honest to God stats for today, the first day off the ramps, with a fair bit if figuring it all out driving mixed in:
1.0 Gallons
51.6 MPG
21mph Avg.
58 MPH max
2.3 Hrs
2179 RPM max
50.3 Miles

It is COMPLETELY on par with other experienced drivers in saturns on http://gassavers.org , I had one real good round trip at 64.7mpg, but I can't always drive that way.

GO TO HTTP://GASSAVERS.ORG and do some homework on how to get better gas mileage if you don't believe me (or even if you do believe me).

And again, thanks to EVERYONE for sharing what you know and your experiences, Like the folks at differentracing and xup3d and all the rest.
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Hey Yazhere , I think it has ripened. I have SERIOUS trouble believeing our cars can break 50mpg.
Some goon on gas savers said something about dropping back to manual steering too. I , as well as other here want solid proof. Not trying to bash here. I just want real proof.
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

You guys are out of touch regarding things MPG, These are real figures, repeated by many others, it is reality.

Buy a scanguage and calibrate it, put in a kill switch, learn how to drive for best mpg (No, that does not mean hittin "set" on the cruise control, sorry) and prove it to yourself already.

Hell, my wife go 49 on her first go with some coaching, wake up!!!
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Old 06-25-2007, 04:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

sl2clone -

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl2clone View Post
Hey Yazhere , I think it has ripened. I have SERIOUS trouble believeing our cars can break 50mpg.
Some goon on gas savers said something about dropping back to manual steering too. I , as well as other here want solid proof. Not trying to bash here. I just want real proof.
That goon is me ! To do it I would have to give up AC, and I haven't crossed that line (, switched to that grooved pulley, or bought that belt) yet.

I prefer manual steering in general. I think it is not a problem with a 2400 lb car, so removing the steering pump load would be a "two for one" from my POV.

Here is what I would do if I were you. Find someone with a ScanGauge and borrow it. Drive your car around like a granny while using the ScanGauge as a feedback device. While you may not see 50 MPG averages without mods, you will see very good MPG if your Saturn is in good running condition. My total MPG average is about 38+ MPG, but I don't do all the tricks that others do.

CarloSW2
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Old 06-25-2007, 08:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
...Drive like a granny...but I don't do all the tricks that others do.
It is those "tricks" that make all the difference, and it isn't driving like a granny. I get to work in the same amount of time in my metro if I get 40mpg or 70mpg. Balancing all the variables to drive for best MPG is challenging, and even fun, a sight more fun than tromp and stop (and idle for 5 minutes at the light).

BTW, I would love to have manual steering, the corners can be a little tricky when the engine is off Did they even make a saturn with manual steering?

Again, thanks all, even the fertilizer specialists
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:22 AM   #11
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Manual steering on my wifes old 96 SL bought 1 MPG (41 vs 40 just "regular driving") vs our other SOHC saturns. Same conditions etc. One can find manual racks in SLs but occasionally an SL will wind up with power steering.

Topping off every 50 miles seems to allow room for those little errors of position on pump pad, pump shut off calibration, temperature of fuel in the car's tank, etc. as well as people who "forget" that 35 MPG fillup in-between record breakers. Drive a solid 400 miles then top 'er off.

However I'm psyched for the OP who built the ultimate saturn, a wagon with tall gearing for economy and twin cam power when needed.
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

skewbe -

Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe View Post
It is those "tricks" that make all the difference, and it isn't driving like a granny. I get to work in the same amount of time in my metro if I get 40mpg or 70mpg. Balancing all the variables to drive for best MPG is challenging, and even fun, a sight more fun than tromp and stop (and idle for 5 minutes at the light).

BTW, I would love to have manual steering, the corners can be a little tricky when the engine is off Did they even make a saturn with manual steering?

Again, thanks all, even the fertilizer specialists
The base no-frills Saturn had manual steering.

Here is what people told me about converting to manual steering :

Converting Power Steering to Manual Steering?
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=101288

In particular, read what LUNCHBOX has to say. He mods the existing power steering rack. The mod is reversible if you don't like the performance.

CarloSW2
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Quote:
Originally Posted by skewbe View Post
Ok, here's my real, honest to God stats for today, the first day off the ramps, with a fair bit if figuring it all out driving mixed in:
1.0 Gallons
51.6 MPG
21mph Avg.
58 MPH max
2.3 Hrs
2179 RPM max
50.3 Miles

It is COMPLETELY on par with other experienced drivers in saturns on http://gassavers.org , I had one real good round trip at 64.7mpg, but I can't always drive that way.

GO TO HTTP://GASSAVERS.ORG and do some homework on how to get better gas mileage if you don't believe me (or even if you do believe me).

And again, thanks to EVERYONE for sharing what you know and your experiences, Like the folks at differentracing and xup3d and all the rest.

How do you accurately measure 1 gallon used when the Saturn has a 13 gallon tank? Do you stop and refill it each time you travel, in order to calculate this? That is not a very accurate way of calculating your fuel economy, not to mention driving 21 MPH on a typical city street where the speed limit is 30MPH is illegal. And with all those numbers you have, how did you equate that into a MPG figure? Time has no function, only gallons used and miles travelled. RPM's as far as calculating MPG is meaningless.
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy81500 View Post
How do you accurately measure 1 gallon used when the Saturn has a 13 gallon tank? Do you stop and refill it each time you travel, in order to calculate this?
Do your homework, scangauge. many many logged fillups are better but it is close enough for now in my experience (which is why I share it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy81500 View Post
driving 21 MPH on a typical city street where the speed limit is 30MPH is illegal.
Do your homework, the speed limit is an upper limit, not a minimum. I'm not here to discuss legality anyway, it should be illegal to drive inefficiently and play a part in global warming IMHO, even more irrelevant than you whining about me including time stats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy81500 View Post
And with all those numbers you have, how did you equate that into a MPG figure? Time has no function, only gallons used and miles travelled. RPM's as far as calculating MPG is meaningless.
YOU asked for some real numbers, as if you don't think the computer knows how to divide miles travelled by fuel consumed or something. I threw all the stats I had at you and you still complain?!?


Look, here are some gas logs of saturn owners who have had them long enough to have gas logs:
99 SL2 (who is currently averaging 57.98 MPG):
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/188

or this guy who is averaging 60.01 mpg in a 2001 SL:
http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/310

Empirical evidence is worth infinately more than armchair speculation.

Last edited by skewbe; 06-25-2007 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

How's this for homework. MPG means MILES PER GALLON. All you need to calculate MPG is MILES DRIVEN and GALLONS USED. That's it, basic division, no scangauge.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
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YOU asked for some real numbers, as if you don't think the computer knows how to divide miles travelled by fuel consumed or something. I threw all the stats I had at you and you still complain?!?
None of your numbers make any sense. The function of time is meaningless in a MPG calculation, as is RPM's. You say average this and average that, like 21 MPH average and max speed 58 MPH. Those don't tell anything. All that is needed is miles driven and the gallons used.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy81500 View Post
How's this for homework. MPG means MILES PER GALLON. All you need to calculate MPG is MILES DRIVEN and GALLONS USED. That's it, basic division, no scangauge.
Yes, it is a simple calculation once you have sufficient miles and gallons, my 4 year old can explain it to you if you are still unclear

What do you say about the gaslogs links above? I assume you will dispute their "realness".
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

I'm an accountant, dude, I can divide. I keep track of my own mileage, have been for many years now. 50 miles is too short a distance to accurately get an average from. Take a statistics class and learn about margin of error.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: one more auto to manual swap down

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Originally Posted by froggy81500 View Post
I'm an accountant, dude, I can divide. I keep track of my own mileage, have been for many years now. 50 miles is too short a distance to accurately get an average from. Take a statistics class and learn about margin of error.
What do you say about the gaslogs links above? I assume you will dispute their "realness".
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:31 PM   #20
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What do you say about the gaslogs links above? I assume you will dispute their "realness".
I looked at them. I see some things listed in them that are unsafe, like running on tires with 60PSI of air pressure. Besides, I can throw together a spreadsheet of data but that doesn't make it real. Where's the links to what modifications have been done on those cars? Where's the data on what kind of driving conditions they are talking about? I had a small car with a stick shift and non-power steering (and non-power brakes for that matter) that never broke 40 MPG let alone some of those numbers.
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