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Old 09-08-2017, 04:38 PM   #1
hudypete1
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2007 ION-3 Sedan
1999 SL2
Dazed 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

Over weekend doing some work on car and now won't crank and mechanics have no clue other than maybe ECM

Bought car used and even during test drive reduced engine power light and check engine came on. Autozone codes suggested an accelerator position sensor problem (sensor 1).

Mechanics looked at it but even with new accelerator pedal (aftermarket something-or-another) in place were only getting 82% max acceleration, I ordered a new accelerator pedal from GenuineGMParts or something (OEM). I noticed that the aftermarket pedal and the OEM pedal have different angles on them so that 82% max could just be due to the pedal bottoming out on the floor boards.

I drove the car home normally (yes, check engine and reduced engine power lights on) that day. There were no other problems that I saw. I stopped at Autozone again and onhly the accelerator pedal position sensor code was popping up.

Later that day, my 13-year old son and I were working on the car at the same time with the battery disconnected.
  • He installed the new pedal,
  • I was checking contacts on the throttle body.
  • I also disconnected the MAF sensor during this.

When everything was back together (OEM new accelerator and existing TBI) we reconnected the battery and car would not crank.

Symptoms are that when key is turned in ignition to run, all warning lights (as normal) light and then go out after a couple of seconds (including security light goes out).
When key is turned to START, all dash lights go out (as normal) and running lights go out (as normal) but car will not crank. There is no click, nothing.

When a wire is run to the signal post on the starter and this connected to 12V power, the starter will crank and car will start and drive (with reduced engine power light on).

Aftermarket pedal was reinstalled and the problem remained.

I have checked all fuses and reseated the connections to the ECM (the three big connectors). All fuses were good (both panels: under hood and in cabin). Relays were swapped in position but all relay coils tested good too (continuity check).

I checked continuity of all accelerator pedal connectors up to the EMC and the wires appear good. I did the same with all the connectors from the trottle body and they appear good also.

Battery was removed and a fully charged battery from my son's 2004 Ion was installed, the same symptoms were present. His car started with my battery.

I check all the ground points I could find, all look good.

I am looking for more things to check before going through and getting a different ECM and the hassle of reprogramming it.

Peter

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 09-08-2017, 05:01 PM   #2
fdryer
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

I don't have wiring info for '07 Ions but suspect they're the same for previous models like '05's. With electronic starting circuits, the ignition switch no longer sends 12v power to the starter. Instead of this conventional starting circuit, Ions use soft starting, low voltage logic signals from the ignition switch to the engine computer to tell the computer to send a starting signal thru relays that switches 12v power to the starter solenoid. While it may seem convoluted, all newer starting systems using push button starting are wired this way. A little more complicated but works. The problem is additional wiring must be available if your situation arises. Since you know how to start the old school way, you need wiring diagrams to follow the new school electronic starting circuit. There's a relay and fuse for this starting circuit because low voltage (5v?) is used to signal the ECM that sends a (12v?) command to the starter relay that sends 12v to the starter solenoid. It's more difficult to explain than show a wiring diagram but it is what it is. I believe your problem is between the ignition switch and starter relay (not the starter solenoid).

Please post actual error codes, not just descriptions. This reduces chances of misleading information. In some cases, the wrong error codes were posted until the OP realized a few posts later......

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Old 09-08-2017, 05:23 PM   #3
hudypete1
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2007 ION-3 Sedan
1999 SL2
Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

when the mechanic scanned today he said he couldn't read the ECM. Codes C0240, C0551, V1000

there were no codes for the BCM

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 09-08-2017, 07:56 PM   #4
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1999 SL2
Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

original codes were P2122 accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor 1 circuit low voltage

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 09-08-2017, 09:31 PM   #5
fdryer
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Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

Here's a partial reprint for '05 Ion P2122 and may or may not apply to your '07. With the other error codes, did they come from a high end reader/scantool? Nothing shows up for those error codes in '05 Ion service manuals but there are google answers that may. I don't know enough to trust where the info comes from other than Redline forums with error code definitions. As to the starting circuit, another reprint from the '05 service manual may help.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Untitled-1.jpg (147.7 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Untitled-2.jpg (127.1 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg '05 Ion starting circuit.jpg (160.6 KB, 3 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Starting System Description and Operation for '05.pdf (94.4 KB, 1 views)

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Old 09-08-2017, 10:57 PM   #6
hudypete1
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Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

Quote:
Moving the ignition switch to the START position signals the body control module (BCM) through discrete inputs from
the ignition transducer that engine crank has been requested. The BCM verifies that theft is not active and sends a serial
data message to the engine control module (ECM)/powertrain control module (PCM) requesting engine start. The
ECM/PCM receives a 12-volt signalfrom the park/neutral position switch or clutch pedalstart switch notifying that it is
safe to start the engine. There is a splice on this circuit in the fuse block-underhood that supplies power for the starter
relay coil. The starter relay coil control circuit is then grounded by the ECM/PCM closing the switch in the starter relay
suppling 12 volts to the S terminal of the starter. Ground is supplied through the engine block.
I checked the Crank fuse position in the fuse block and the starter relay coil position in the fuse block also.

To check, I put a multimeter bridging the terminals in the fuse block (fuse and relay removed) set on VDC.

When the key in the ignition was moved to the START position, both the fuse position and the relay position went from 0VDC to about 12VDC as measured by the multimeter. This indicates to me that those fuse block positions have no incoming current prior to turning the key, but when the key is turned to START current flows across them.

If the description for 2005 is accurate, this indicates to me that the ECM is providing a signal to the fuse block positions (and to the fuse and relay when they are installed) which should provide 12VDC to the S terminal of the starter.

If anything, this seems to point to the S terminal not receiving the signal.

I did not check voltage at the normally open contact positions because I didn't think of it. I did check the coil (good) and continuity across the normally open contacts when the coil energizes (good).

It would seem that one of those NO contacts should have live 12VDC at ignition and when it closes (when the relay coil activates) it would then flow to the starter S terminal. Yup, your schematic says that fuse 46 controls that. Hmmmm, I could never get good voltage across that... I think I need to be a little more systematic on checking that to a known ground point. Your schematic doesn't show anything else upstream of fuse 46 all the way to the battery.... I will look.

OK, I have some more work to do tomorrow.

Do you have a copy of the Power Distribution Schematic?

Peter

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Old 09-08-2017, 11:03 PM   #7
hudypete1
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Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

Just to be clear. i don't give a hoot about the accelerator position sensor APP at this time....

In my mind, everything is pointing to needing to get the vehicle started before worrying about a sensor that sometimes works.

My guess about the starting is that as we were disconnecting/reconnecting the battery to do the electrical work, something sparked lightly somewhere oxidizing a contact (probably) or blowing a fuse (but I have run out of fuses and relays to check so far).

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 09-08-2017, 11:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

There's no guarantee of '05 Ion wiring matching your '07 but I suspect they may share many pinouts. Be aware of this so you don't get sidetracked hunting down signals or voltages. PM me an email address that allows files and I'll send as much as you need. '05 info only.

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Old 09-09-2017, 06:20 AM   #9
hudypete1
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Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
PM me an email address that allows files and I'll send as much as you need. '05 info only.
PM sent. I am off to a soccer tournament for 13-year old boy and hope to be back on the car this evening.

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 09-09-2017, 11:06 PM   #10
hudypete1
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1999 SL2
Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

I am frustrated!

I was out working today for about 2 hours. All the schematics and data that I had were pointing to a fuse/wire problem:
  • voltage measurements in box when key turned indicated that ECM was working good
  • car drove in after I hot wired the starter (last week)
  • relays tested fine outside of car
  • voltage to relay positions (measured by putting a piece of stranded wire into slot for relay and connecting other end to meter) seemed correct at start time

So finally I pulled a fuse out, bent the spades a bit, slathered on dielectric grease, and stuck it back in. Fuse #11, powers electronic ignition control module, charging system, neutral so back up switch. It is upstream of the crank relay according to the schematic you sent.

The car started, but ran hesitantly (a stutter every 2 seconds or so). I could not get it to start a second time, but I only tried 3 more times, then it was too late to do more.

I am thinking that some of the female lugs inside the underhood box may be sloppy so I can get voltage readings of a piece of wire, but if current tries to flow then the connection is so sloppy it cuts out.

What I will do is open the box up (after removing fuses and relays), pop off the inner piece to expose the lugs and then see. When I was at the salvage yard today I tore one open and was surprised at how flimsy those female connections were, just like a V and that was it. I will try to get a photo posted

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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Old 09-10-2017, 09:38 PM   #11
hudypete1
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2007 ION-3 Sedan
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Default Re: 2007 Ion 3 manual won't crank

problem solved.

I believe now that the underhood fuse box had some loose connectors. I replaced the fuse box with a salvage one from a pick-n-pull.

I also replaced the ECM with a salvage one too.

Thank you everyone.

...
Peter in Lansing MI

current cars:
94 SW2 (White, automatic)
99 SL2 (Silver Plum, manual)
99 SL2 (Dark Blue, manual)
04 Ion 3 (Berry Red, 2.0L automatic)
07 Ion 3 (Cypress Green, 2.4L, manual)

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