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Old 04-25-2007, 08:08 AM   #1
centerice
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2007 Outlook XR
Mad problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Hello,

I am just wondering if other Saturn owners are having the same problems I am having with my car, and with poor customer service.

I just purchased a new Outlook 3 weeks ago today. The dealership was wonderful. The manager was patient and helpful. The sales associate was very knowledgeable about the Outlook. That experience was a pleasure.

Since I bought the car, the air conditioning has never worked. We took it back to the dealership and they fixed it yesteday. Now, the outside air temperature does not work. Unfortunately, the service people had left for the day by the time I picked it up. Now, this means I need to go back to the dealership for the third time this week to have a problem resolved. On Monday I left the Outlook overnight there (they gave me a rental at no charge) while this problem is fixed.

Has anyone else had these problems?

My second problem has to do with a rude area case manager. I will refrain from using her name.

Yesterday I called Saturn's 1-800 number to register my complaint about the A/c not working and ask a question: How is it that a new car comes from the factory with a component broken? How did my car fall through the cracks?

I thought Saturn might want to know about this and try to adjust some procedures at the factory so this type of thing does not happen to another car and so there is not another unhappy Saturn owner.

Well, this case area manager was very, very rude to me.

Her only research for my car was calling my dealership to check on the progress of the car. She told me they "recharged the system". Those three words were all she could provide. I asked her to give me more details about what that meant specifically. She did not know and referred me to the service department of our dealership.

I asked how could this happen to a new car? She told me to again ask the service dept. I told her my question has to do with the factory. How could a car come out of the factory with a component broken. She could not answer the question. I reminded her that I gave the vehicle number to the customer rep. at the time I submitted my question. Could she do some research from the factory side? She, essentially, said no.

I told her when I submitted my question, that I wanted information from the factory standpoint. I said, "I do not need you to talk to the dealership" because I am talking to them already. I know what is going on there.

Basically, the area case manager told me information I already knew because I had talked to the service department myself.

I reminded the case worker that my question had to do with how my car fell through the cracks and how this could happen. She said she could not help me.

I asked to talk to another area case manager. She refused to transfer me. I asked to talk to her supervisor. She refused to give her supervisor's name and refused to transfer me.

I asked for some avenue to go to get my questions answered. She only offered Jill Lajdziak's name and address. By this time I was mad, and told her that I know Ms. Lajdziak is the General Manager, (president?) of Saturn and is busy going to board meeting and press conferences. She is not going to call Pam in (my city's name) to check on my A/C unit.

She hung up on me.

Oh, before she hung up on me, I asked for her last name and phone number. Both requests were refused.

So, I called the main number back and talked to a nice guy. I told him my horrible experience and he apologized for Saturn. He did have a suggestion.
He told me the next step after the area case manager is to talk to a regional manager. (the case manager NEVER mentioned this). So, I am supposed to receive a call today from the regional manager.

I am shocked and disappointed that I have been treated like this. I thought that Saturn is supposed to pride themselves on GOOD customer service.

I thought that my questions about my a/c unit and the factory were reasonable. I honestly thought that Saturn would want to know that there has been this problem so they can try to catch the problem at the factory level. The area manager did not say anything about passing this information on to the right people.

Has anyone else had such a bad experience with an area case manager? I try to remind myself that this is just one person and not necessarily representative of the entire company, but she was pretty darn RUDE.

This is the fourth new car I have owned. The others have been Acura, Honda and Toyota. This is the first time that a new car has been delivered with a broken component.

This case manager has just added insult to injury and I am disgusted. Now I have to go back to the dealership and get the outside air temp. thing fixed.

Thanks for any suggestions.

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Old 04-25-2007, 08:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Sorry you've had problems. Hopefully they will be fixed for good.

I'm sure GM has a very skilled quality control department. The problem in your case is that you just don't know how it works and you were unable to find out. Many things could have happened. They might not test the A/C fully before it leaves the factory. It might have left the factory working just fine. In any case, I'm sure GM monitors warranty repairs closely. If only a couple of people have A/C problems, then it's probably just a fluke. If a lot of people have problems, you can be certain they will notice.

GM has an extensive database of repairs for each model. They know better than we ever will about frequency of repairs and common problems.

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Old 04-25-2007, 09:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

As mentioned above quality control allows volume manufacturing and unfortunately you ran into someone of less experience in handling simple questions of customer service. By not giving you her name for fear of repercussions automatically downgraded her abilities from a professional GM frontline employee to a simpleton that never should have been put in the position. I hope you were able to report her unprofessionalism to the regional manager as upper management tends to frown on less than customer oriented trained employees. I have my own experience years ago from a dealership (not Saturn) denying any knowledge of petty theft from my car until I called the regional representative. A few minutes with a very friendly woman and the next day I was called at home by the dealership (suddenly) finding my personal item! That was more than 30 years ago and I can still recall that pleasant conversation I had. Don't accept anything less than an apology and some reassurance that your experience won't be repeated again on another Saturn owner in regards to that one case manager.

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Old 04-25-2007, 12:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Note that some companies have a policy against their customer service reps giving out their full names. I have had some give me their first name and employee number or phone extension number.

Not to slam you or anything, but it seems like you didn't treat the woman nicely, either. The best way to get courteous service is to act with courtesy yourself.

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Old 04-25-2007, 04:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

UPDATE: I picked up my car last night after the service department assured me that the air conditioning unit is working. They said they tested it for an hour.

This morning I get into my car only to find that the air conditioner does not work.

I am not sure if SpencerB is stating that I do not know how the Saturn infrastructure works or the air conditioning unit. Let me assure you, that this problem is with the car, and not my own mistakes.

Wish me luck, as I need to dedicate another morning to bringing the car to the dealership for another service visit. I will probably need to leave the car over night again to have it fixed, and again get a rental.

I am not getting the feeling that anyone at Saturn feels that these problems should not be happening to a brand new car.

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Old 04-25-2007, 04:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

just another example of a company hiring people without experiance toward the particular subject. in this case cars. they should hire retired technitions or mechanics.
anyways, you should RAIL on them! i've heard of people getting brand new cars for stuff like this. maybe you should try that...
but anyways, go as high up as you can go and complain because they are wasting your time and you need compensation

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Old 04-26-2007, 07:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Quote:
Originally Posted by centerice View Post
I am not sure if SpencerB is stating that I do not know how the Saturn infrastructure works or the air conditioning unit. Let me assure you, that this problem is with the car, and not my own mistakes.
I hope I wasn't being offensive. I was just commenting on the attitude of the area manager. I didn't hear the conversation; I was just stating that fact that some people get defensive real quick, which the manager might have been.

If I was in your situation, I would not be happy either, for one big reason: I live about 1.5 hours from my nearest retailer. I had a small warranty repair (a window switch and a sticky ignition cylinder). I knew the parts needed to be replaced before I went in, but the service dept. said they wouldn't order the parts until they did a diagnosis. I said fine and ended up bringing it in twice. I've needed two repairs out of warranty (two wheel bearings). I did the first one myself and let my local Chevy dealer do the other.

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Old 04-26-2007, 08:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Centerice;

Go to your dealer tomorrow morning and tell them you want to exercise your 30 day exchange guarantee....and tell them why. A problem A/C has a habit of always being a problem.

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Old 04-26-2007, 09:34 PM   #9
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Update:
We took the car back to the dealership today. We learned some good news and bad news.


The good news is that the dye they put into the system during the first visit has revealed a leak. The service tech. showed us where the leak was located with an ultraviolet light. We saw the dye stains under the car near the a/c hoses. The service manager was pretty confident that the gasket was loose and needed to be replaced. He ordered the parts today to be Fed Ex'ed overnight to the dealership. They again gave us a car rental free of charge. Dodge minivan. Hopefully, this will be fixed tomorrow.

The sales manager at the dealership told me that the service manager dialogues and shares information with other Saturn service managers via their own website. He has seen one other posting about this same a/c problem on and Outlook. Again, he is confident he found the problem and that it is very fixable.

The bad news is that we have 1700 miles on our Outlook already (roadtrip from MD to MA - 500 miles each way) within 3 weeks of owning it --- so we were told we are not eligible for the 30 day return policy.

Now, could/should I push for an exchange since the problem started before 1500 miles???? The first day we got the car we went on our road trip to MA and experimented with the controls. It was on that first day that we noticed that the A/C was not working. We just figured that the a/c was incompatible with another setting that we were using. We never got around to reading the manual until we needed the a/c on a warm day -- this past Sunday.

Another factor is that it was extremely hard to find a car with the color and all the options we wanted. (You probably had similar experiences). We purchased FWD XR with the white diamond tricoat, with leather, sunroofs,
Nav, DVD, XM, touring, capt. chairs, etc. We were lucky to find this one.

Should I let that sway my decision to push for another car under their 30 day exchange policy?

Does anyone know if this comes close to qualifying under the lemon laws?
Thanks!

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Old 04-26-2007, 10:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

It does seem that the dealer service department is doing a decent job.
Thousands of cars are delivered from the factory with defective parts. It's not really that unusual.

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Old 04-26-2007, 10:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Quote:
Originally Posted by centerice View Post
Should I let that sway my decision to push for another car under their 30 day exchange policy?
Does anyone know if this comes close to qualifying under the lemon laws?
Thanks!
It won't qualify because they should be able to fix it. Let them fix it and enjoy your new vehicle.

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Old 04-26-2007, 10:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

My personal opinion along with your difficulty in finding the car of your choice and what appears to be a frank and open admittance (including showing you the place where the leak occured) where the fault lies would have me keep the vehicle. I know, as well as anyone else, that air conditioning can be extremely difficult to repair unless its well understood and repairs are done completely without short cuts. Returning the vehicle to you without letting on that dye was added along with replacement refrigerant gave the service department the opportunity to wait for the inevitable phone call from you if in the event they weren't able to locate the leak. They knew you were going to use the a/c and this stresses the a/c system ideally as time goes by especially if its a leak. Time and labor goes against profits so their brief running of the a/c is still no assurance to them that repairs are completed, as I interpret this situation. I believe they did what any good service dept. would do with the exception of possibly someone taking the vehicle home overnite with the a/c on constantly from and to work to stress the system for a day. Your vehicle is under warranty and in the hands of pro's that can perform the proper repairs completely in a shop equipped to perform factory repairs back to original conditions despite the factory assembly causing this problem. This is a case of the dealer fixing the factory mistake and may have been overlooked before the dealer delivered the car to you.

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Old 04-26-2007, 11:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

One more thing: The service department did tell us after the first visit that they added the dye in the system. In addition, they told us that they added the right amount of freon (sp?) and tested it for an hour.

Later I talked to the dealership's sales manager and he told me that they add the dye as an insurance policy in case something else goes wrong with the a/c in the future. He told me that the leaks are not always immediately visible with the dye method. As the manager suspected, the service department quickly found the leak thanks to the dye.

Also, the service manager showed me a diagram of the a/c unit (with each individual part separate and labeled in a manual). He pointed to the small gaskets in the picture that he believed caused the problem. I feel he understands the problem well.

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Old 04-27-2007, 12:21 AM   #14
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

I'm betting this may be an isolated assembly oversight and I'm sure this has already been given priority back to factory management and Saturn headquarters insofar as quality issues and brought to the attention of the assembly line workers specifically tasked with assembling a/c systems. Direct feedback will correct this and won't be overlooked as there are many Outlooks being assembled and this would be a severe black eye to Saturn if it were to continue. There may even be a TSB issued for every dealer to re-check every Outlook on the lots all over America before sales are finalized to the new owners.

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Old 04-30-2007, 09:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Cars slip through the cracks for a multitude of reasons. Incompetent technicians doing the pre delivery inspection is certainly one. I wouldn't expect someone in a call center to have any idea what is going on at a dealer, the histories that the service writers put in the computers suck, because they too are incompetent and money hungry to boot.

It's a lose-lose, unfortunately, but that's life. You have a lot of warranty left, and in the scope of things an AC issue is minor. Have a look at the VTi problems on the early VUE. That's a big deal.

While we don't like wasting your time, as you are the customer, ours is valuable too, and it looks like everyone at the dealership level did the best they could. If it was a slow AC leak, then they have to inject the dye, let you take it, and wait. That's how it works. It's not as though you were inconvenienced on purpose and yet you have an attitude as though that is the case. It's not easy to fix a car, and yet you expect it done right the first time, every time. Bet you aren't that good at what you do.

Service isn't going to stay open late for you. Sorry. And if I came off rude? Sorry about that too, but somebody had to say it. I'm all about customer service, but the customer is not always right. There again, neither is the tech. That's life. We can call and ***** about it, or we can live with it.

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Old 05-01-2007, 09:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with the CSR on this one.

You asked a question that does not have a good answer - "How could a car come out of the factory with a component broken?" I'm not sure what you were hoping to hear, but I'm 99% sure that whatever the answer was, it wouldn't have satisfied you.

The questions you want to ask are, "When can I expect it to be fixed" and "I hope you have a rental car available to me while it's being serviced". These are actually things that the dealer & CSR reps can give you input on.

The fact is, a car is a complex piece of machinary, with about 2000 parts assembled by hand & by machine - SOME of them are going to roll off the line with problems. Have a look at the JD Power survey on initial quality - http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...df/2006082.pdf

Of the 38 brands surveyed, only TWO (Porsche & Lexus) averaged less than one problem per new car.

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Old 05-03-2007, 03:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

Quote:
Originally Posted by centerice View Post
Since I bought the car, the air conditioning has never worked. We took it back to the dealership and they fixed it yesteday. Now, the outside air temperature does not work.
I think it's a bit much to expect your new car to control the outside air temperature.

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Old 05-03-2007, 08:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: problems with rude area manager and new Outlook

A slow refrigerant leak may not be caught in the factory since it may take hours or days for the freon to escape and kill the A/C. It might have worked fine at final test.

That being said, the manager's attitude sucks. She should have called your dealer's service manager to be sure they were on top of the problem.

Had the service personnel explained that they added Freon but also added dye in case there was a leak, you would have understood when you needed to come back again.

Glad it got fixed.

Communication is vital to good customer relations.

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