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Old 06-01-2006, 10:55 AM   #1
robertburns3
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Default Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

I have grown more interested in recent years in the VUE, partially thanks to the growing American content of the vehicle, due to the switch to the more durable 4 speed trannys. I am very disappointed with the possibility that the next generation VUE may be built in Mexico. If it is built out of the U.S. count me out, and count me out of an imported Astra/Evoke too.

The S series vehicles were over 90% American content, which was very impressive. The cars were great and I was proud to sell them, when I worked at a dealership. My wife's L series is in the mid to high 80% in content with the 4 cylinder.

Saturns are supposed to be the import fighter, not the imported car. I hope GM keeps buyers like me in mind when they decide where to produce these cars. If they don't, I will move to other vehicles, such as the Michigan built G6, Cobalt, or maybe even a non GM vehicle such as a Freestyle.

What do you think?

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:21 AM   #2
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Sad Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

My motor and tranny was made in japan.

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

I really don't care where my car is made.

As for foreign car manufacturing, I don't think that any person deserves a job more than another just because of their race or nationality. If a particular plant has quality or assembly issues, then that's another story altogether.

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Don't see any reason to mix politics with what car i buy, so if it fits my needs, i will buy. Have asked yourself why they make it outside US ?????? Hummmmm...

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carterscreek
My motor and tranny was made in japan.

Actually if memory serves me, your Honda motor was made in Ohio. Confusing I know.

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertburns3
I have grown more interested in recent years in the VUE, partially thanks to the growing American content of the vehicle, due to the switch to the more durable 4 speed trannys. I am very disappointed with the possibility that the next generation VUE may be built in Mexico. If it is built out of the U.S. count me out, and count me out of an imported Astra/Evoke too.

The S series vehicles were over 90% American content, which was very impressive. The cars were great and I was proud to sell them, when I worked at a dealership. My wife's L series is in the mid to high 80% in content with the 4 cylinder.

Saturns are supposed to be the import fighter, not the imported car. I hope GM keeps buyers like me in mind when they decide where to produce these cars. If they don't, I will move to other vehicles, such as the Michigan built G6, Cobalt, or maybe even a non GM vehicle such as a Freestyle.

What do you think?
What would you think if non US contries stoped buying products because they were not made in their own country....your country would go down the ****ter with no exporting........so I think your comment is pretty stupid

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertburns3
I have grown more interested in recent years in the VUE, partially thanks to the growing American content of the vehicle, due to the switch to the more durable 4 speed trannys. I am very disappointed with the possibility that the next generation VUE may be built in Mexico. If it is built out of the U.S. count me out, and count me out of an imported Astra/Evoke too.

The S series vehicles were over 90% American content, which was very impressive. The cars were great and I was proud to sell them, when I worked at a dealership. My wife's L series is in the mid to high 80% in content with the 4 cylinder.

Saturns are supposed to be the import fighter, not the imported car. I hope GM keeps buyers like me in mind when they decide where to produce these cars. If they don't, I will move to other vehicles, such as the Michigan built G6, Cobalt, or maybe even a non GM vehicle such as a Freestyle.

What do you think?
1. Production for the VUE won't go to Mexico permanently, if at all, just until retooling is done
2. Production for the ION/Astra will be imported for at most a year, just until retooling is done

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carterscreek
My motor and tranny was made in japan.
My wife's motor was made in China, the trans in Japan and the vehicle assembled in Canada. Does it matter? No. It's put together well and does its job reliably, that's all I care about.

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Old 06-01-2006, 11:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerb
I really don't care where my car is made.

As for foreign car manufacturing, I don't think that any person deserves a job more than another just because of their race or nationality. If a particular plant has quality or assembly issues, then that's another story altogether.
Exactly. People should buy based on quality. We live in a global economy. Buying an inferior product because it's made in (insert favorite country) only encourages more inferior product.

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Old 06-01-2006, 12:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmesillybubba
What would you think if non US contries stoped buying products because they were not made in their own country....your country would go down the ****ter with no exporting........so I think your comment is pretty stupid
um, does TRADE DEFICIT mean anything to you?
that's the problem, NO ONE BUYS THINGS MADE IN THE US.
o.k., nothing is an not true, but the deficit is HUGE. US companies move production overseas to increase profits. how come nike shoes made in china still sell for $120? converse all stars outsourced production and the price went UP.
over $1000 of every car GM sells goes to cover health care for employees. when they move production out of country, they avoid the UAW, the EPA, taxes are different, but the american worker loses his job, the CEO gets a bonus, and we get a car. should we care where a car is put together. sure.
all that being said, as long as there is a deficit, I'll buy an american made car.

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Old 06-01-2006, 12:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twosaturns
um, does TRADE DEFICIT mean anything to you?
that's the problem, NO ONE BUYS THINGS MADE IN THE US.
Yep, I know what trade defecit means. So what? If companies made products that I wanted and they happened to be produced in the US, then guess what....I'd buy them!

Quote:
o.k., nothing is an not true, but the deficit is HUGE. US companies move production overseas to increase profits. how come nike shoes made in china still sell for $120? converse all stars outsourced production and the price went UP.
Welcome to the market economy. Frankly, if someone wants to pay $120 for a pair of sneakers then they should have the right to do that. Perhaps economic darwinism will ensure that those traits don't get passed on to any offspring.

Quote:
over $1000 of every car GM sells goes to cover health care for employees. when they move production out of country, they avoid the UAW, the EPA, taxes are different, but the american worker loses his job, the CEO gets a bonus, and we get a car. should we care where a car is put together. sure.
all that being said, as long as there is a deficit, I'll buy an american made car.
How is that my fault? How is it my responsibility to keep a bloated labor union entrenched in a business that makes inferior products? If a company can't compete in an industry they shouldn't be in that business. If a bloated labor union is one of the reasons why, then they should take steps to move production to where that isn't a problem. That is their responsibility to their shareholders.

If you want to be Don Quixote and buy inferior product in some misguided attempt to "help our economy," then knock yourself out. I'll spend my $$$ with companies that make something I want at a price I'm willing to pay. If that's an American company, cool. If it's a company in Chile, that's cool too. Welcome to the global economy. American companies have been using it to their advantage for decades. Now that the pendulum is swinging the other way, it's suddenly a bad thing. I don't think so.

Cheers,

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Old 06-01-2006, 12:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Sounds like somebody has their ass covered...

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmesillybubba
What would you think if non US contries stoped buying products because they were not made in their own country....your country would go down the ****ter with no exporting........so I think your comment is pretty stupid
Since Americans are willing to go more into debt and have less savings than any other peoples in the history of the world, I'd say that if Americans only bought American and other countries only bought their stuff that America would not be the worst off country by any means. Other countries would be at a loss though. Simple fact. Sure prices would go up but then maybe we would have another Henry Ford moment when he doubled the salary and halved the price of Model-T. Or better yet, if prices went up maybe Americans would have so much crap packed away they don't use because they would spend more wisely. Just a thought. Yes, maybe we should go back to producing things here so our landfills would no be so full (of throw away crap).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz
We live in a global economy. Buying an inferior product because it's made in (insert favorite country) only encourages more inferior product.
So, if you know of workers where you work who are not productive do you insist they be fired? You wouldn't want to encourage such inferiority, correct? How about if you have a bad week at work where your production is down do you demand to be fired? So are subsidizing Hybrids, transplants (by the state) and every other "gift" just simply encouraging inferiority? I do not think it is a sin in this supposed Capitalistic country to buy for reason and not perception. That is what deciding what is inferior and what isn't is all about: perception. There is nothing wrong with weighing in where something is made (for macro reasons) in the pros and cons of a vehicles. PERIOD.

How about this... The GOVERNMENT is encouraging inferior products by granting patents and trademarks then. Well, if a company can sit on one invention for 20 years (possibly a one hit wonder) and never have to make the product much better and 500 companies are sitting on the sideline which could make it better but will get sued if they try then... We should get rid of patents and trademarks. Yes, we will cure so many things faster that way with medicines if no one can patent anything. Yes, I agree, survival of the fitest. Yes, but we should do it 100% then. No subsidizing (of hybrids, alternative fuels at all, or education: no tax credit for not going to public schools) and no patents and no such things as contracts either. Signing a contract locks people into inferior products. You may have to stay with Verizon for another year even though XYZ company just invented MiraclePhone.

1. Nothing is perfect
2. When is anything 100% clear cut superior by 100% of the population(because inferior/superior is about perception, one persons junk is another persons riches)? So are you really always buying the superior product or just what you may have incorrectly perceived as superior?
3. There is perfection in imperfection.

Last I checked I'm not in the top 10,000 for anything (job, sports, anything) yet I have a nice life because companies like GM and Ford and the rest built the infrastructure for me to live in a great economy and with a great life. I'll thank them with a purchase and have no regrets.

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

The main issue should not be where it is made, but how the car is designed. A plant could have the "best" workers available, but the vehicle can still end up inferior if it is not designed well. The manner in which the interior and exterior parts are put together and fit together is ultimately decided by how the parts and fasteners are designed. A badly designed fastener can make a high quality part seem cheap if it does not secure the part properly.
The fact of the matter is that in order for the planet to move ahead, products have to be designed/manufactured in a collective manner.

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotted73
The main issue should not be where it is made, but how the car is designed. A plant could have the "best" workers available, but the vehicle can still end up inferior if it is not designed well. The manner in which the interior and exterior parts are put together and fit together is ultimately decided by how the parts and fasteners are designed. A badly designed fastener can make a high quality part seem cheap if it does not secure the part properly.
The fact of the matter is that in order for the planet to move ahead, products have to be designed/manufactured in a collective manner.
Yes but too many people get this idea that design is MUCH more important than manufacturing. Like the iPod designed in California but made in China. The problem is that there is no precedence for a super economy based entirely on services (IIRC Japan, Korea, China, Germany and the U.S.) all used manufacturing to get to the economic levels they are at (heck China is in it's infancy of economic power and it has the world's second largest auto market now since passing Japan last year). You can have 5 engineers and designers for the iPod and the factory that produces them will have much more than 5 people running it even if it was nearly totally automated. Yes, design (and services) are important but so is manufacturing from an economic point of view.

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

good point. a well designed car can be assembled anywhere and be a good product. but US companies outsource to increase profits, not to make a better product.
i bought a grill the other day. it wasn't the cheapest, or the largest, or had the highest btus, or features. but it is the best designed. it has been sold the same way for quite a few years, replacement parts are available, and it has a great warranty. and it even grills food well too!
how did I pick it? because of where it is made. its an american made weber. more expensive than anything else home depot or whoever sells, but I know its made by some folks in Indiana, AND it happens to be the best on the market.
anyway, I'm not patriotic or wavin the flag. I don't think that 'american-made automatically makes things better. but if I can support american workers, not just american companies, I will.

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lithous
Last I checked I'm not in the top 10,000 for anything (job, sports, anything) yet I have a nice life because companies like GM and Ford and the rest built the infrastructure for me to live in a great economy and with a great life. I'll thank them with a purchase and have no regrets.
Yes, thank goodness for America. It gives you the freedom to buy whatever you'd like. It also gives me the freedom to do the same without some thinly veiled accusation that people who buy based on quality alone are somehow "unappreciative" or "unAmerican."

Cheers,

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Old 06-01-2006, 01:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

I agree..it's the process more than the workers. Sure a more highly skilled worker can perhaps overcome some shortfalls, but if the process is engineered well, then quality shouldn't be a problem.

While I prefer US made, I don't have a big problem with it if it's imported from a country where the workers have a decent standard of living and have a safe working environment..

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Old 06-01-2006, 02:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Wouldnt it be better to outsource the work to mexico? Then they wont come here looking for free handouts, illegally at that... I mean if they were here we would have more people *****in about them getting welfare, etc.

So keeping the job in mexico and keeping the people there, seems like great idea for me.

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Old 06-01-2006, 02:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mexican-made VUE and Europian-made Evoke/Astra - would you buy them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz
Yes, thank goodness for America. It gives you the freedom to buy whatever you'd like. It also gives me the freedom to do the same without some thinly veiled accusation that people who buy based on quality alone are somehow "unappreciative" or "unAmerican."

Cheers,
"unappreciative" and "unAmerican" are your words. Why couldn't it be "uneducated". I don't mean by a university by any means. I mean, how many people have actually stopped to think how many super economies exist in the world based on services before deciding that it was OK to teach America in every school there is that America will succeed on it's "technology and innovation" as many like to say. Of course those two things are great but we need to be well rounded to succeed as an economy. Snubbing manufacturing is just plain stupid. There is NO precedence, none, for a super economy to exist without manufacturing.

But out of all the things I stated only this is the reply. Something you can attempt to twist. Please, I await the answer to the name of the country which is a Service based super-economy and the U.S. doesn't count because we are living on a thread of what's left of manufacturing 80% of the world's goods at one time.

But it is much better to thinly veil (in that no cons are ever given) that globalization is the greatest thing since slice bread and we should all embrace it and love it?

Good stuff.

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