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Old 06-25-2015, 12:13 PM   #1
AJR
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Default Window sill trim removal help?

Has anyone ever removed the trim along the window sill of the driver's door on an L200? It's the trim that is supposed to seal against the window. When it rains, I get leaking from the plastic inside, at the bottom near the speaker.

Water does not get inside and wet the floor. It just sits on the weather striping at the bottom. Still, that can't be good for things inside the door.

I know there are a couple of screws inside (one one the door lock edge of the door), but that still doesn't loosen the trim. I don't know if it pops off or if it slides off.

Andy

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Old 06-25-2015, 04:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Can you show a picture of the location and maybe others can better help find a fix or removal procedures for it.

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Old 06-25-2015, 06:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

^^Agreed. It's not clear to me exactly what the location is and to which parts you are referring.

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Old 06-25-2015, 06:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

The trim piece is basically the window sill, right along where you would put your arm with the window down on a nice day. It has a chrome strip as part of it.

No problem though. I'll take a couple of pictures tomorrow and show where it's leaking in the door too. There must be something wrong with that trim, but it's impossible to tell what it is until I take it off.

I've looked at it as closely as possible from the outside,but the trim looks the same as the other doors and they don't let water in at all.

Andy

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Old 06-25-2015, 08:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

The first image shows the trim that I suspect. Not certain though. It could be something by the mirror instead.

Arrow 1 in the second image shows where the water drips from and arrow 2 shows where all the water collects. So the main weather stripping at the bottom is keeping the water out of the car so it doesn't wet the carpet, but I know it shouldn't be going into the door panel.

Andy

Trim.jpg

Door.jpg

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Old 06-26-2015, 08:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

According to the Haynes manual that piece just lifts off, but you should use something like a nylon trim tool to do it. There is a video by Richpin on removing said trim but on the SL model over in the S Series forum.
Funny you should post that I am about to remove the outer door panel this weekend to replace a broken and very noisy door check. The recommendations are to go into the door from the outside.

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Old 06-26-2015, 11:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

OK, thank you. I'll try to work that strip up a little. I just don't want to break anything, so I figured I'd ask first. I have to get oil this weekend, so I guess I'll pick up that tool too. I've needed one for other things anyway.

Let me know how that panel comes off. I was looking at that as a possibility if need be for this leak, but it looks like something you'd have to fumble around with, like it's a two man job?

I was thinking that one person might have to hold the panel while another removes the screws. I was thinking maybe the panel could fall off when the last screw is removed or maybe even twist and break before that. Just a thought I had while looking at it. Good luck.

Andy

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Old 06-26-2015, 12:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Removing the outside door panel isn't a two man job. The panel hangs in place on the door with tabs that were molded into it at its top. The window sill trim covers this. The panel will remain hanging on the door even after all of the screws are removed.

As for the window sill, it is clipped tightly to the top of the door. There should be one screw at the rear of the door connecting to the outside trim that needs to be removed first in order to lift it out of place. The trickier part of removing the front door panel is separating the door lock and or/its related components from it.

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Old 06-27-2015, 05:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

I cannot comment on the door lock part on an L Series, but over on the S Series Forum, it is a veritable mine of information. Usually with video's by Richpin.
To remove the outer door skin, you will need to remove the 'Sail' . This is a plastic panel that hides the nuts and socket that holds the door mirror on. You will need to remove the nuts and disconnect the socket and the mirror should lift away.
The door handle is identical to the S series. Lift the handle up and stick a screwdriver handle under to keep it upright. On one of the ends of the underside of the handle you will see a small circle jutting out from the end piece. this is a small plastic pin that holds the handle on. Either use a nylon trim tool or a small screwdriver and gently nudge it out. When it's out far enough to hold with fingers, just pull it out. Then slide the handle to one side (can't remember left or right). The handle will come away and that is all you do to remove handle.
As far as the lock, I do believe from Richpins video on the S Series, that the lock cylinder is not attached to the outer door skin at all.
So after you have unscrewed all the Torx bolts holding the panel on, and lifted away the top trim, you can lift away the door outer panel and you are staring at the inside skeleton. I also believe there is a moisture shield which you may have to carefully pulll back.
Although the L series is an import from Europe being based on the Opel Vectra, it was Saturnized with the plastic body panels. What I have noticed is that Saturn do tend to follow suit on the same things across various models.

I tried to put the link into the richpin video, but I'm told as I haven't done 15 posts I am not allowed, so you will have to Google 'richpin video Saturn door panel removal. OR go next door to the S series forum.

Hope this helps

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Old 06-27-2015, 11:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

^He's right, it's not about the lock cylinder - my poor memory - it's about removing the door handle. You need to find a small trim removal tool. A common door panel removal tool is too large to remove the small plastic fastener which holds the door handle in place. I was opening the front door panel today, which also involved removing the interior trim panel along with the mirror, and noticed that the "window sill trim" is supposed to come of with the panel as one piece as was stated in the Haynes Manual. The work I was doing did not require me to remove the panel fully. I only needed to have enough space to remove the lock cylinder bezel and install a new one. The lock cylinder merely rests in place within the bezel's opening so it does not impair the removal of the panel in any way.

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Old 06-29-2015, 09:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

So let me get this straight (since we have all talked about two different jobs now), one of the first parts to taking the door apart (floridasl22002's job) is the job I need to do (removing that trim)? IOW's, I should just have to remove that one screw and pop off the trim?

Andy

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Old 06-29-2015, 09:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJR View Post
Has anyone ever removed the trim along the window sill of the driver's door on an L200? It's the trim that is supposed to seal against the window. When it rains, I get leaking from the plastic inside, at the bottom near the speaker.

Water does not get inside and wet the floor. It just sits on the weather striping at the bottom. Still, that can't be good for things inside the door.

I know there are a couple of screws inside (one one the door lock edge of the door), but that still doesn't loosen the trim. I don't know if it pops off or if it slides off.

Andy
check for drain holes at the bottom of the door.......water will get in but these holes allow it to get out and let the door dry.....they may be clogged causing the water to back up.....i would check my wife's car but we are on vacation at the moment and have my suv......

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Old 06-29-2015, 09:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulsurvives View Post
check for drain holes at the bottom of the door......
Good idea, thanks. When I wiped the bottom of the door, I glanced along the bottom and nothing caught my eye, but I'll take a closer look.

Andy

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Old 06-29-2015, 10:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJR View Post
So let me get this straight (since we have all talked about two different jobs now), one of the first parts to taking the door apart (floridasl22002's job) is the job I need to do (removing that trim)? IOW's, I should just have to remove that one screw and pop off the trim?

Andy
Yes, to remove the trim you'd need to remove that screw and lift off the trim - to the best of my knowledge. I say that because the Haynes Manual doesn't state anything about removing that triim so as to remove the panel. Yet, when I attempted to remove the panel from the rear door in the past it was necessary to lift off the window sill trim. If you wish to remove the outside door panel then door handle and the driver's side mirror must be removed for the door panel to be lifted off of the door.

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A dishonest communist and deep state socialists want to be POTUS.
They'll bring us a bad economy, weak military, increased terrorism and a greater RED CHINA.

Last edited by pierrot; 06-29-2015 at 10:12 AM.. Reason: additional information

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Old 06-29-2015, 01:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

I finally found the outer door panel removal information in my FSM. The window sill trim is called the Front Door Outer Door Belt Seal[/B]. To remove the outer belt seal:

From the 2000 L Series FSM
1) Remove mirror trim panel and remove foam filler, (interior)
2) Loosen mirror attachment nuts.
3) Remove outer belt seal retaining screw at rear.
4) Remove screws from polymer panel. Tilt panel outward and remove outer belt seal.
5)Carefully lift up on outer belt seal starting at rear and working forward.
Installation:
1) Install outer belt seal by sliding forward end of outer belt seal toward front of door.
2) Starting at rear of belt seal, push belt seal down onto flange until fully seated.
3)Install and tighten mirror attaching nuts. 10 N.m (89 in-lbs)
4) Install foam filler and mirror trim panel.
Install and tighten outer belt seal retaining screw at rear. 2 N.m (20 in-lbs)


When removing the mirror trim panel do so from the top and slightly towards the front of the door. It doesn't take a lot of effort to pry it off so go easy with the plastic parts.

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Old 06-29-2015, 05:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

We popped off the door mirror sail panel on the inside. There is a very small plastic fastener which sits in an equally small holder. If you are not careful, the panel will come off and the fastener will remain in the door. You then have to careful remove it and reinstall it in its normal place ready for reinstall.

I have exactly this same job to do on my son's new to him L300. The door check strap has broken and makes a loud cracking sound every time you open the door. We got a perfect one from U Pull & Pay, but I need to get inside the door to remove the bad one and install the replacement.

I did read that when Saturn attached the polymer door panels to the door frame, the torx had bolts had Loctite put on them before tightening. So you may find that they may need a little force to break the Loctite seal. I checked my son's and it may be someone has already been in the door, but they loosened nicely.

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Old 06-29-2015, 07:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasl22002 View Post
I did read that when Saturn attached the polymer door panels to the door frame, the torx had bolts had Loctite put on them before tightening. So you may find that they may need a little force to break the Loctite seal. I checked my son's and it may be someone has already been in the door, but they loosened nicely.
Yes, you are correct. They used a yellow colored thread sealer. According to the document in the link below it would be Loctite 200. It's rated at 40lbs. so some effort is needed to break the seal on those bolts, but its not that tough. The bit required is a T30 which is sized for a quarter drive ratchet. You'll want to use a long extension so as to avoid unnecessarily scraping knuckles.

http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_da...ctor_Guide.pdf

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Old 07-02-2015, 08:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Well last night, me and my son removed the drivers outer door panel for the first time. Job went smoothly with no big issues. We were doing it because the door check strap had broken and was making a loud cracking sound every time you opened/closed the door. I'd picked up a replacement from UPull & Pay. You remove it/install through the inside of the door, hence removing the panel.

First off was the door mirror inside sail (the trim cover). That unclips with a trim tool, just be careful with the very small plastic white fastener that clips the sail into the door. This is held in a small holder on the sail itself and our holder was beginning to crack away from the sail, so be careful. It's not made strong.

Next off was the mirror itself. There are 3 nuts to remove. 2 visible behind the removed sail and one hidden behind a plastic grommet to the right of the sail. Once unbolted pull on the mirror housing. Ours took a little persuading as the foam seal had part bonded itself to the metal on the door through age. Again it will come off if pulled carefully.

Next off were the door panel bolts. No issues there. use a Torx tool for the bolts. Ours had been off before, so had no issues in breaking the Loctite seal when manufactured.

Next up was removing the top trim. There is a small hex bolt to the far left of the door. When removed, theoretically the trim piece should lift off. Ours didn't and needed some gentle persuasion to lift. The instructions are to lift from the outside, but I found using one of my trim tools with a hook shape, if I pushed it down the window space, I got more leverage to push the trim up. Eventually it popped up and all was good. Lifting off the whole cover was easy. If only all doors were like that!

There was a plastic water on the door panel, but I didn't have to move it all as I was able to get my hand and the part through the open bottom.

Re-installing is a reverse of the the above. You have to tighten the torx bolts in a specific pattern. #1 is the top left nearest the door handle side. #2 is top right nearest the hinge side. The move down and round the door panel from # 2 till you reach # 1.

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Old 07-02-2015, 07:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Not having much luck. Even with that screw removed, the trim doesn't budge. However, I inspected every fold of that strip and compared it to the other trim pieces and how they press against the window and I couldn't find any difference.

So, I decided to remove the side view mirror. Under the plastic frame of the mirror (which presses down at arrow 2), there is a rather large gap (arrow 1) at the end of the trim that lets water channel along the trim (arrow 3) and runs into that gap.

I don't know if it's supposed to do that or not, but if it is, maybe there is some clogged drainage issue somewhere (as was mentioned by 'soulsurvives').

If it isn't supposed to drain there, I don't know how to solve the issue. I added some closed cell foam to the area to seal it off and water is still leaking in. I might have to tear the door apart and try to see where the water is coming from.

This is frustrating!

Andy
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File Type: jpg Leak.jpg (105.0 KB, 14 views)

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Old 07-03-2015, 09:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: Window sill trim removal help?

Andy,
We too had difficulty in removing the trim top on the door. It does grip on to the door top well. If you do not already have them I would suggest you get yourself a trim tool set from Harbor Freight. See link;

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...t?q=trim+tools

They offer 2 sets, a nylon one at $6.99 and a metal set at $17.99. if you have coupons you'll pay less. I bought the nylon set (I'm cheap!). Benefit of this over metal is that it doesn't scratch. The wide tool on the right is the one that I sued to pry UP to the trim piece. If you watch the Richpin video on removing the plastic outer door panel on the S series, it is very similar. He lifts that trim from the outside edge. I tried that using the wide flat end and it doesn't budge much, so I used the curved end of the tool and slotted in between the glass and the trim and used it as a lever along the length. It moved it UP. After is started doing that I grabbed the bottom of the door outer panel and pushed the whole lot UP. That effort was enough to dislodge the trim piece and it came off. Once off the whole outer panel just lifts way.

On the door mirror there is a triangle of foam on the inside of the mirror mount which obviously is meant as a seal. Ours had 'glued' itself to the metal over time and I had to carefully pry it way being careful not to rip it. You may want to check the condition of that foam.

The only thing I can think of as to how water is getting inside the door panel is either via that door mirror OR between the glass and the door trim seal when the glass is UP. You may want to check the latter with a credit card or something thin along the seals edge to see if there is a gap. The rubbers on all cars unless kept flexible with silicone grease will go hard & brittle over time. Seals will then evolve a curve shape, but will keep that rather than spring back to the normal shape if kept flexible and you then end up with gaps and water gets in.
Good luck

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