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Old 12-18-2012, 02:10 PM   #1
saleenman
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1999 SC2
Default Supercharge '99 SC2

So after doing a lot of research I have decided that supercharging is the best option for me. Now correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like I will need the following:
  • Supercharger (Eaton M62 or M90) ~ $200 eBay
  • Fuel Controller (Apex'i S-AFC 2) ~ $200 eBay
  • WBo2 Sensor and Gauge (Innovate MTX-L) ~ $200
  • Boost Gauge (Innovate MTX-D) ~ $170
  • Fuel Injectors (#42 from Ion Stage 2 kit) ~ $120
  • Piping and mounting equipment (self fabricated) ~ probably free or really cheap
  • Belt ~ $50

I figure I can do this for around $1000. My uncle is a machinist and said that he would be more than willing to help me fabricate the mounts for turbo.

There are only 2 questions that I can't seem to find the answers to. How much boost can I expect to get from a M62 vs M90 and what can my engine handle w/o any internal mods?

Thanks!

BTW: My account at Sixthsphere is still under moderation so I can't post there.

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:13 PM   #2
fetchitfido
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2001 SC2
Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

For a DOHC, 7-8psi is the generally accepted high end of stock internals.

The output of the supercharger's depend on what pulley you put on it.

I believe the guy that put a SC Ecotech in his '95 SC2 spent around $1500 total (got a heck of a deal for a wrecked Ion Redline), and got a better front end setup as well as a motor already built for boost

SAFC-2 only adjust's under WOT (don't care what the documentation says, thats how our PCM works with it) so you'd still be prone to blowing it up under boost at less then WOT conditions. A new MSII (megasquirt) is ~$300, maybe half that if you find one selling a used one.

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Old 12-18-2012, 05:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

SAFC2s are great, but they're useless for your application. You NEED a full standalone computer. As as already been said, the SAFC2 (and all piggy-back controllers) only work above 75% throttle. For a naturally aspirated build, that's great, but with boost (especially a supercharger) it's a recipe for disaster. How much boost do you think you might see at 50% throttle at high-ish rpms? Do you think you can run that much boost at leaner than 15:1? (The stock PCM swings back and forth between slightly rich and slightly lean, so as long as you're in closed loop, you'll be seeing AFRs leaner than 14.7:1 about 50% of the time. The SAFC2 will make no difference until you reach over 75% throttle (before that, all it does is change your long term fuel trim). (The only part-throttle thing it works for is tuning aftermarket cams to idle properly.)

Megasquirt is probably your best choice because it has been used (successfully) many times on boosted S-Series, and there is plenty of information available (on Sixthsphere). There are lots of alternatives, though, and some do offer more options than megasquirt.

42# is a bit big for injectors unless you plan to eventually build the bottom end to take a lot more boost. From what I hear, stock bottom ends aren't good for much over 200hp, and even that is pushing it, if you have any detonation. At that power level, even 35# injectors would be more than sufficient. Stock injectors are only 19#, and they support up to roughly 150hp at the wheels (that's maxed out, though, which is not so good). My advice would be to do the math (there are plenty of injector size calculator apps online), and pick something that will support your anticipated power, at 85% duty cycle. You can use an FMU to raise the fuel pressure based on boost, if you want. This will allow you to use even smaller injectors. It may seem silly to not just go for huge injectors, but the bigger the injectors, the harder it will be to tune the idle. Assuming you'll be using a full standalone ECM (the only option), you're going to need to create all the fuel maps, including at idle, which can actually be the hardest part (many standalones support an auto-tune mode, but I don't think they work well at idle). If injectors are too big, even the smallest pulse width possible may result in running too rich (which can cause all sorts of problems including stalling and even engine damage due to washing the cylinder walls down with fuel). The smaller the injectors, the larger the idle pulse width, and the more room you have to play around with it, to get it just right.

Bolting it all on is great, but the real work is tuning it (that's a lot more difficult than making some brackets and bolting stuff together). Unless you already have experience tuning, that's what you need to read up on.

Many people who boost a stock lower end get addicted pretty soon, and either blow it up with too much boost or rebuild it with forged internals so they can safely run much higher boost. I would do it "right" from the beginning.

...
High compression build: .033" shaved/ported head, flat-faced valves; gen3 rods, pistons, tie-plate; OE header, custom CAI, SDA street cams with adjustable sprockets, WBO2, SAFCII, LSD. ASE A1-A8+L1

Last edited by PlasticCarsRock; 12-18-2012 at 05:35 PM..

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:07 AM   #4
saleenman
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

First off, thank you both for your informative responses! So if I understand this correctly I will need a Megasquirt and FMU, or just one or the other? Also, I was leery about going with the Megasquirt because of emissions testing, would it make it fail? Lastly, if all that I need to tune is fuel, I just need the MS1, correct?

Thank you!

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Old 12-19-2012, 05:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by saleenman View Post
First off, thank you both for your informative responses! So if I understand this correctly I will need a Megasquirt and FMU, or just one or the other? Also, I was leery about going with the Megasquirt because of emissions testing, would it make it fail? Lastly, if all that I need to tune is fuel, I just need the MS1, correct?

Thank you!
Just MS is all you need if you go that route. Might as well just go MS2, I don't think the price is all that different, and you'll definitely get addicted to the boost and want to be able to change spark timing.

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Old 12-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by saleenman View Post
First off, thank you both for your informative responses! So if I understand this correctly I will need a Megasquirt and FMU, or just one or the other? Also, I was leery about going with the Megasquirt because of emissions testing, would it make it fail? Lastly, if all that I need to tune is fuel, I just need the MS1, correct?

Thank you!
Go with an MS2. You will need to control timing (pull timing under boost). Also, there is a lot more information about MS2 (on sixthsphere).

You do not need an FMU, however, it is not a bad idea. As long as the injectors are large enough, you can add plenty of fuel with the MS2, however, an FMU would be useful if the injectors are reaching their limits. It might also make tuning a bit easier, because the fuel maps will be more consistent (increased fuel pressure will make up for the higher fuel demand under boost). As long as the injectors are big enough, it's completely optional, though.

The MS is definitely not going to pass OBD2 emissions testing. You will need to swap the stock PCM back in, and drive it long enough for the monitors to pass, without getting into any boost (preferably disable the supercharger by bypassing it with a shorter belt). You will need to do some custom wiring, of course, but if you do it right, you can simply unplug the MS2 and plug in the PCM. There is a specific driving procedure that should get the monitors to pass pretty quickly, if you follow the instructions carefully. Alternately, you might be able to register it out of state (in a state with no inspections).

...
High compression build: .033" shaved/ported head, flat-faced valves; gen3 rods, pistons, tie-plate; OE header, custom CAI, SDA street cams with adjustable sprockets, WBO2, SAFCII, LSD. ASE A1-A8+L1

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Old 12-21-2012, 03:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

If you are worried about passing emissions go to a state that doesnt do it. Like Oregon.

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Old 12-21-2012, 07:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

send us a pic when you're done. we don't see that many people succeed in boosting the s-series engine.

i think, in the last 17years of owning my saturn, i've seen 3. total. i think 1 of them was supercharged...


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Old 12-26-2012, 01:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

I didn't see mention of low compression pistons. I don't think you want to boost the engine with the current 9:1 compression ratio (I believe). You want 8:1 to 8.5:1. Otherwise detonation will be a real big problem. Some newer engines come from the factory boosted with 9:1 compression but they have hundreds of hours of tuning in them by professionals. It's your experiment though. Just bringing up a point to consider.

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Old 12-26-2012, 02:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyt View Post
I didn't see mention of low compression pistons. I don't think you want to boost the engine with the current 9:1 compression ratio (I believe). You want 8:1 to 8.5:1. Otherwise detonation will be a real big problem. Some newer engines come from the factory boosted with 9:1 compression but they have hundreds of hours of tuning in them by professionals. It's your experiment though. Just bringing up a point to consider.
You can lower the compression by installing a thicker head gasket as well as playing with different heads, rods and pistons.

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Old 12-30-2012, 10:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Supercharge '99 SC2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madness10 View Post
You can lower the compression by installing a thicker head gasket as well as playing with different heads, rods and pistons.
lol You can lower the compression playing with a different block and valves too. Just saying.

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