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Old 08-06-2011, 09:10 PM   #1
vue2.2
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

The manual trans in my Vue went out and i replaced it with a used piece from lkq. I put everything back in the same way i took it out with the exception of a new clutch assembly , master and slave cylinder. Now I have lights, dash, radio, power windows and locks, a working key fob, dinging chimes but to my dismay it will not start. It will not even turn over. I have checked and rechecked every fuse and relay, i have checked the grounds, power wire, i took the starter and had it check out (it is okay, passed with flying colors) put in a new battery but i am stumped. The fuel pump kicks on and everything seems to be in order, but yet it will not start. The security light is not on unless you press lock on the keyfob, but it is strange. Everything electrical works except the starter. We have even gone so far as to try and push start it ( well, dragging it behind an F350 :-) But so far nothing. I have been researching now and I have heard, ecm or bcm or short somewhere. I know I am obviously missing something so any insight from anyone no matter how trivial please feel free to share. I will take any and alll info on the subject, thanks everyone!

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Old 08-06-2011, 10:23 PM   #2
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2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

There's a 2003 starter circuit wiring diagram in post # 2 of following thread:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=146731

The diagram reflects limited circuitry between 30A ignition fuse, ignition switch and clutch start interlock switch.

I believe I'd route a fused wire from battery and temporarily connect to pin S of starter solenoid.

If starter runs - problem's in ignition network.

If starter does not turn: (1) check big red cable back to battery, and/or (2) verify there's a ground cable between battery and frame and another from battery to engine.

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Old 08-06-2011, 11:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

I'm confused by descriptions.

Is this a "will not even turn over" dead silence issue when the ignition key is turned to the START position or the starter turns the engine but the engine never fires up?

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Old 08-07-2011, 01:24 AM   #4
vue2.2
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2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Affirmative. When I turn the key to the "on" posistion , I get nothing. Even though everything seems to be in order. I'm going to dig into it a little more tomorrow with the new found info , but please keep any insights coming. Thanks guys! :-)

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Old 08-07-2011, 02:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Circuit Description

Moving the ignition switch to the START position signals the body control module (BCM) through discrete inputs from the ignition transducer that engine crank has been requested. The BCM verifies that theft is not active and sends a serial data message to the ECM requesting engine start. The ECM receives a 12 volt signal from the park/neutral position switch or clutch pedal start switch notifying that it is safe to start the engine. There is a splice on this circuit in the fuse block - underhood that supplies power for the starter relay coil. The starter relay coil control circuit is then grounded by the ECM closing the switch in the starter relay suppling 12 volts to the S terminal of the starter. Ground is supplied through the engine block.

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Old 10-03-2011, 11:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Just finished my vti to manual swap tonight and my engine is turning over but not starting. I noticed you mentioned that the BCM verifies that "theft" is not active and sends a signal to the ECM to start. My security light is on and stays on since I hooked everything back up. Despite the clutch switch being cut (the way i bought it from the junk yard) it still turns over.

During the swap the computer closest to the fuse box had to be removed as it was being fed from the one directly on the engine (it appears that it was only for the vti operation).

Any ideas on what i can do to get the vehicle started?
thanks

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Old 10-03-2011, 11:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Is there a switch on the clutch pedal to prevent engine start in gear? Check that it is working correctly.

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Old 10-04-2011, 11:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by koshie6 View Post
Just finished my vti to manual swap tonight and my engine is turning over but not starting. I noticed you mentioned that the BCM verifies that "theft" is not active and sends a signal to the ECM to start. My security light is on and stays on since I hooked everything back up. Despite the clutch switch being cut (the way i bought it from the junk yard) it still turns over.

During the swap the computer closest to the fuse box had to be removed as it was being fed from the one directly on the engine (it appears that it was only for the vti operation).

Any ideas on what i can do to get the vehicle started?
thanks
did you swap the computer when you did the tranny swap?
I know on my Mustang when i swapped to a manual, i had to change the ecu, and when i did that, i had to reflash the new one at the dealer to work with the ignition key. There's a chip in the key and it's unique to the ecm so the car can't be stolen. I know it's ford vs saturn and that's apples/oranges, but if you did change your computer and there is in fact a chip in the key like other gm's i've had, this may be your issue.

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Old 10-04-2011, 11:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by rond View Post
Is there a switch on the clutch pedal to prevent engine start in gear? Check that it is working correctly.
it wouldnt crank over at all, at least mine doesn't if the switch isn't tripped.

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Old 10-04-2011, 12:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Do you hear the fuel pump run a couple of seconds when you turn the key on?

Did you swap the BCM and do a security relearn?

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Old 10-04-2011, 01:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: 03 vue replaced transmission, now wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by koshie6 View Post
Just finished my vti to manual swap tonight and my engine is turning over but not starting...... My security light is on and stays on since I hooked everything back up.....During the swap the computer closest to the fuse box had to be removed as it was being fed from the one directly on the engine (it appears that it was only for the vti operation). Any ideas on what i can do to get the vehicle started?
Security staying ON during starting means the injectors are disabled; the bcm's Passlock theft deterrent system is enabled and is preventing the engine from running. Search for and perform the (3)three 10-minute 'relearn' procedure. This should reset all computers and allow the engine to run.

GM's Passlock theft deterrent system incorporates three computers - ecm/pcm, bcm, and tcm to ensure each communicates to the bcm for a systems check and if the ignition key is used to start the engine. Any meddling with any of the components can result in a genuine or false theft detection that enables Passlock (the bcm turns on the security indicator during starting) and disables all injectors to prevent the engine from running. There's a (short) tamper feature where leaving the ignition ON beyond 10-minutes (and observing the security indicator change state) then cycling the ignition off before trying another start can reset Passlock or the 30-minute procedure for replacing Passlock components/powering up the EFI system with electronics disconnected/other issues.

If the VTI computer is disconnected then none of the above procedures apply because the bcm expects to communicate to all other computers as part of the security/maintenance/system self tests. Failure to communicate to any system computer (disconnected) is interpreted as theft and renders the engine inoperative/incapable of running. You can crank the engine all day until the battery dies or the starter burns out but the engine will never fire up.

I'm not sure if the tcm (xmission control module) is used in VTI's but if it does it must be connected even though its no longer needed; it must communicate to the bcm to allow the engine to run. The bcm manages security and sends a password to the engine computer; either to allow injectors to work or not. If the bcm does not see/communicate to the tcm and ecm/pcm then it thinks part of the car has been tampered with and sends a security code to the ecm/pcm to disable injector operation - a DEAD engine that can't be driven away. Towed yes, driven no.

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