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Old 03-02-2010, 12:01 AM   #1
Suicidns13
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Default 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement???

Hey guys I thought that this message board would be best to see if I should actually go ahead and pay this. Here is a quick recap of my families situation with our saturn. I purchased the 2003 Vue from my parents as a more practical family vehicle as my 2 custom cars were just getting well, too custom to drive on the street. The Vue has been maintained by the dealership for my parents and has been garage kept and driven by my mom, the slowest driving lady on the planet. At about 75k the throttle body went out and I payed 1800.00 to have it replaced. About a month later the same part went out and they replaced again under the 12/12 warranty.

Well here we are another 6 weeks goes by and the thing is dying on my wife and I driving down the street. It has the same exact symptoms as before (dying at stop lights, low power, not downshifting, SES light). I immediately bring it back to saturn and they call me 2 days later telling me its the BCM now and want another $675.00 from me. I should have hooked it up to my code reader before dropping it off, but I was so mad and so sure it was the same issue. Does the BCM even have anything to do with how the car physically drives? Or idles? I thought the actual engine ECU handled that(as well as the throttlebody and its sensors). It drove fine to the dealership as it was mostly freeway miles.

Paying 2 grand for the dealership to diagnose and fix the problem the first time is why I payed that much in the first place. Now I feel like they are trying to just milk more money out of me. I cannot believe a car with such low miles, driven with care at all times, can have as many electrical issues as this. My other cars get tracked and abused heavily, have completely custom engines(that dont even belong in the cars to begin with) with custom engine harnesses hand built by me, and they will start and drive with no issues everytime. This situation has seriously tainted my allready low opinion of american built cars.

...
1995 Nissan 240sx - 2jzgte/PTE6765/Tial/HKS/E85 - 805whp street brawler
1993 Nissan 240sx Convertible - Rb25det...nuff said
2003 Saturn Vue-Babymobile-Always broken-doesnt even get raced....wtf?!?!

Last edited by Suicidns13; 03-02-2010 at 12:11 AM..

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Old 03-02-2010, 01:01 AM   #2
fdryer
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

It would be speculation on anyone's part to guess what went wrong with two electronic throttle bodies being replaced without any error codes to go along. I haven't been around here too long and haven't come across anyone replacing their TAC (throttle actuator control) modules twice, let alone once. What may have occurred is the reduced power mode (limp home), reducing engine output to about 1/3rd if something between the electronic pedal and electronic throttle, comprising the drive-by-wire system with the ecm as the center of electronics communications between the two. Did the reduced power indicator ever light up on the instrument panel as a tell tale in addition to the SES indicator? With so many dbw systems installed in many GM brands and in view of Toyota's dbw issues, there are very few Saturn posts with definite issues about our dbw system with follow-up posts explaining the fix. To date, only one Ion member replaced his APP (accelerator pedal position) module to cure an erratic engine problem. No runaway issues were ever posted.

BCM costs vary from about $400 to whatever Saturn can charge an unknowing customer. There many posts about faulty bcm's, starting in the early L-series and moving on to the later S-series and Vues. Each forum has posts with symptoms very similar to non engine related functions. The only fault a bcm can force on the engine computer is the fuel disable signal as part of the factory anti-theft system recognized as Passlock and Passkey. A faulty bcm causing the anti-theft system to disable engine running, termed the factory immobilizing system, simply prevents the owner from starting, requiring a tow to the dealer for repairs. BCM replacement done only by the dealer as programming and installation is firmly controlled to eliminate any liability issues from anyone wanting to remove and install a newly programmed bcm. Basically, if the engine runs, its not a bcm issue and one tell tale of bcm issues would be the security light staying on permanently while still allowing you to start and drive away. Its an alert that the security system no longer works but allows running without any anti-theft protection. This has never occurred or posted about. The majority of failing bcm's are; random flashing of lights inside and out, horns blaring, doors locking and unlockng, etc.. All bcm controlled but now operating incorrectly at random.

...
VCX NANO

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Old 03-02-2010, 12:29 PM   #3
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2007 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicidns13 View Post
Well here we are another 6 weeks goes by and the thing is dying on my wife and I driving down the street. It has the same exact symptoms as before (dying at stop lights, low power, not downshifting, SES light). I immediately bring it back to saturn and they call me 2 days later telling me its the BCM now and want another $675.00 from me. I should have hooked it up to my code reader before dropping it off, but I was so mad and so sure it was the same issue. Does the BCM even have anything to do with how the car physically drives? Or idles? I thought the actual engine ECU handled that(as well as the throttlebody and its sensors). It drove fine to the dealership as it was mostly freeway miles.
Suicidns13 ... according to your post the vehicle is about 7 years old and has provided 75,000+ miles of reasonable service to your family. You indicate your opinion of American cars is tainted ... many of us feel the same way about all the worlds vehicles.

Many folks assume foreign cars are bullet-proof, but no brand (I've owned) is immune from repair. I need to spend $2000 repairing the transmission in my daughters 2002 Forester - with 80,000 miles, and have already invested $1500 trying to fix a "miss" in my son's 2000 Forester with 75,000 miles.

BTW ... it was their moms idea to buy the Subies ... she read they were safe. I suppose they are - but they're certainly not trouble-free.

So, back to the Vue. Have you queried the dealer regarding the next step if the BCM does not fix the problem? There are references in the service manual that the BCM is the hub for all data message interchanged ... so there's a possibility the BCM ... or associated power and ground wiring ... could be "hiccuping", to influence important ignition or fuel messages.

It'd be nice to know the codes.

As fdryer points out ... the dealer needs to program the new box. I suspect one of the most important reasons is the BCM stores vehicle mileage, and we don't want non-dealers to have that capability - do we?

I've extracted and attached a file describing the BCM's mission for your reading pleasure. And I honestly hope you get the little guy running at minimum expense.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 03 Vue - BCM Discrp & Ops.pdf (60.7 KB, 40 views)

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Old 03-02-2010, 03:20 PM   #4
linx3566
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by far2grumpy View Post
Suicidns13 ... according to your post the vehicle is about 7 years old and has provided 75,000+ miles of reasonable service to your family. You indicate your opinion of American cars is tainted ... many of us feel the same way about all the worlds vehicles.

Many folks assume foreign cars are bullet-proof, but no brand (I've owned) is immune from repair. I need to spend $2000 repairing the transmission in my daughters 2002 Forester - with 80,000 miles, and have already invested $1500 trying to fix a "miss" in my son's 2000 Forester with 75,000 miles.

BTW ... it was their moms idea to buy the Subies ... she read they were safe. I suppose they are - but they're certainly not trouble-free.

So, back to the Vue. Have you queried the dealer regarding the next step if the BCM does not fix the problem? There are references in the service manual that the BCM is the hub for all data message interchanged ... so there's a possibility the BCM ... or associated power and ground wiring ... could be "hiccuping", to influence important ignition or fuel messages.

It'd be nice to know the codes.

As fdryer points out ... the dealer needs to program the new box. I suspect one of the most important reasons is the BCM stores vehicle mileage, and we don't want non-dealers to have that capability - do we?

I've extracted and attached a file describing the BCM's mission for your reading pleasure. And I honestly hope you get the little guy running at minimum expense.
Over the years I have own a lot of Japanese cars from Toyota, Nissan to Honda. I now own a Vue. They are all the same. They will cost you money because that is what cars do. They need maintenance. And all dealers are expensive. So no manufacturer has the edge because your repairs are how they stay in business. I have the Vue now for almost a year, I bought it used and it is a 05 4cyl FWD, to be honest I like it and I like especially the polymer panels. No need for me to shy away from a tight parking spot especially when it is -10C and I want to park as close to the entrance as possible. Pity Saturn stopped with the polymer panels. I intend to keep my Vue as long as possible but not looking forward to the repair bills because I know they will come. Cheers.

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Old 03-02-2010, 04:29 PM   #5
Someclown
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicidns13 View Post
This situation has seriously tainted my allready low opinion of american built cars.
Welcome, You may want to look at going to another garage for second opinions if you think these guys just want to milk you!!
I can only guess they changed throttle bodies prematurely but I don't know this.
The already low opinion on American built cars may change when you come to realize that your 3.0L GM engines is a European-Opel design, and the 3.5L Honda engine in 04+ Vue, well you know where that comes from. Your frustration should be faced more toward the mechanics/servicers
IMO Import cars are no better than North American cars, they all have the same electrical nightmares, only difference, their parts and labor are usually more expensive

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Old 03-02-2010, 07:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

Hopefully they changed the connector on the throttle body and put new terminals in it when they changed the actuator.

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Old 03-02-2010, 09:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

People like buying reliable cars from reliable companies like Chrysler and GM and their stellar brands like Saturn, Saab and Pontiacc .. Oh .. They just went bankrupt and these three divisions are on the dust heap and we are all stuck with vehicles with horrible resale values ... because everyone was fooled by the Asian auto companies.

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Old 03-02-2010, 10:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

I remember a joke 15 years ago where a man was reading a newspaper about auto sales shouted "Those Japanese cars, they're killing us!" The wife leans over and said "If they wanted to kill us they'll be selling us Pinto's"

Toyota is selling Americans cars that killed more people than the Ford Pinto ever did. These idiots all love their Toyota's and Lexus's and don't believe that the same thing could happen to them. My nephews father in law almost died of CO poisoning when his Lexus SUV remote started in the garage, and this man can't wait to buy another. What an idiot...

Lately, I get concerned when I see a Toyota or Lexus behind me. Especially when you see one driving like an idiot.

...
2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11

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Old 03-04-2010, 05:46 PM   #9
mrtube
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Default Re: 2003 Vue, 1800.00 dollar throttle body replacement and now a 675 BCM replacement?

Lets not forget the quality transmissions Honda has been producing for 10 years. Especially the pre-2004 ones.


Just in case it gets past anyone. That was sarcasm.

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