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Old 06-05-2008, 09:28 PM   #1
L200INRI
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2007 VUE 2.2L
Default Good-Bye & Saturn!

Hello Folks –

As a longtime member of this website, and 3 time Saturn Owner (2002 L200, 2004 Ion 3 QC & Now 2007 Vue), I am placing this post here both as a my last, and a testament of my complete dissatisfaction with the quality of newer Saturn’s as well as my dissatisfaction with their customer service.

In mid-2006, I purchased a 2007 Saturn Vue 4-cyl – 5 speed. After nearly 24 months of ownership and roughly 48k of driving, this vehicle has had problem after problem – requiring multiple dealership visits to replace the following items -

• Replace Accelerator Pedal
• Replace Molding on Center Console
• Replace ECM Module
• Replace Throttle Body
• Replace Engine Oil Sensor

The vehicle continues to have problems –

• Shift cable connecting the shifter to the transmission needs replacement (Difficult to get the vehicle in gear – Dealer says cable is worn, rusted and kinked)
• Electrical Short – Whenever you depress the brakes, the parking lights come on and the dashboard lights up. Whenever you use the left directional – the parking lights and dashboard blink along with the directional’s

Since I am now past the 36k bumper-to-bumper warranty, I am looking at a hefty bill to fix it, and Saturn corporate states that the shifter cable is a wear and tear item similar to a clutch and is not covered under the power train warranty. In addition, neither are the electrical problems that I am incurring.

I contacted Saturn Customer Assistance center who put me in touch with the regional representative. After more than a week of research on their end – they told me that since I did not have my regular service oil changes done by a retailer that they would not be able assist me either with the repair of this vehicle or some sort of a credit towards a new one.

Apparently, while it is not required to have your service done at a Saturn facility, since they cannot “Validate” the service performed (Even though I have receipts for every oil change) – according to the regional representative – It’s like you never had it done. I was told by the regional representative that I should have purchased an extended warranty when I had the chance.

My retailer has been fantastic throughout this whole situation, and I would highly recommend them, however Saturn’s corporate customer service is greatly lacking. They could have at least offered me some sort of help or credit towards a new vehicle.

I am currently shopping for another vehicle – Obviously, things at GM must be so good that they don’t care about losing loyal customers or customer satisfaction.

What a shame… I will never buy another GM vehicle again!

...
Bill in Rhode Island
--------------------------------
2007 Saturn Vue FWD 4 -5-Speed
2007 Jeep Wrangler X - 5-Speed

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Old 06-05-2008, 10:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by L200INRI View Post
What a shame… I will never buy another GM vehicle again!
While your car seemed to have more problems than most, I don't blame ya. My future cars won't even be American at this point.

The 5spd Vue is one of the worst driving cars I've ever driven. (Harsh!) The combination of one of the laggiest drive-by-wire systems in the industry, and a vague rubbery shifter have got me sold on Imports from here on out.

...
'13 VW CC 2.0T
'99 Volvo S70 AWD

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Old 06-05-2008, 10:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

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Originally Posted by burnout View Post
While your car seemed to have more problems than most, I don't blame ya. My future cars won't even be American at this point.

The 5spd Vue is one of the worst driving cars I've ever driven. (Harsh!) The combination of one of the laggiest drive-by-wire systems in the industry, and a vague rubbery shifter have got me sold on Imports from here on out.
it never ceases to amaze me how people have a problem with ONE CAR, they write off the whole domestic auto industry! (that Asian guy was rude to me, I'll never eat Chinese take out again!) for the OP, I'm sorry you've had issues, but try to get some perspective.
as for you burnout, you are too young and inexperienced to start making judgement calls like that. my 5 speed VUE is a blast to drive, the shifter is very good, I have no idea of the 'lag' you go on about, mine works fine. and I have driven and owned MANY more cars than you have over 22 years of driving, imports and domestics.
anyway, as many unhappy customers there are, there are many more happy customers. one bad experience doesn't make all the cars bad. my '04 VUE has 52K miles, original brakes, 2nd set of tires, only engine work has been a leaky cam cover gasket. original sway bar links, original shift cables, all is good. it's a wonderful car which has gotten a best of 32mpg, and I plan on keeping it a long time.

...
for the first time in 8 years, I don't own a saturn.

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Old 06-05-2008, 11:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twosaturns View Post
it never ceases to amaze me how people have a problem with ONE CAR, they write off the whole domestic auto industry! (that Asian guy was rude to me, I'll never eat Chinese take out again!) for the OP, I'm sorry you've had issues, but try to get some perspective.
as for you burnout, you are too young and inexperienced to start making judgement calls like that. my 5 speed VUE is a blast to drive, the shifter is very good, I have no idea of the 'lag' you go on about, mine works fine. and I have driven and owned MANY more cars than you have over 22 years of driving, imports and domestics.
anyway, as many unhappy customers there are, there are many more happy customers. one bad experience doesn't make all the cars bad. my '04 VUE has 52K miles, original brakes, 2nd set of tires, only engine work has been a leaky cam cover gasket. original sway bar links, original shift cables, all is good. it's a wonderful car which has gotten a best of 32mpg, and I plan on keeping it a long time.
You're the exception to the rule I guess. My last 3 GM vehicles have had very poor quality. All models produced this decade and all known problems over many years and vehicles. I can totally understand L200INRI's frustration. Fix it properly the first year they find the problem! The Japanese and Korean manufacturers figured this one out years ago. GM still doesn't get it.

Though his lemon is worse than most I have heard of, I think many have experienced GM's poor workmanship and substandard quality on many occasions and still have a bad taste in their mouths about American cars. I can tell you that this will be my last Saturn as well, after 10 years of driving Saturns. I think 3 chances is enough.

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Old 06-06-2008, 12:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by twosaturns View Post
it never ceases to amaze me how people have a problem with ONE CAR, they write off the whole domestic auto industry!
Good point, but I just don't like the overall quality of most of the american cars I've been in. Keep in mind that I haven't even had any PROBLEMS with my car.

I'm sure our driving styles must be very different. I have to time the shifts completely different on this car than anything else I've ever driven, because it takes a second for the throttle to actually open. I can drive anything 5spd with a cable throttle just fine, but when I hop in my vue its like I have to re-learn how to time letting off the clutch and re-applying the gas...

Granted I really don't have that much experience with driving different types of cars.... however: I think it is a very safe call to say that GM cars do have the worst (slowest) drive by wire system in the industry right now.

...
'13 VW CC 2.0T
'99 Volvo S70 AWD

Last edited by burnout; 06-06-2008 at 12:17 AM..

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Old 06-06-2008, 08:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by L200INRI View Post
they told me that since I did not have my regular service oil changes done by a retailer that they would not be able assist me either with the repair of this vehicle or some sort of a credit towards a new one. Apparently, while it is not required to have your service done at a Saturn facility, since they cannot “Validate” the service performed (Even though I have receipts for every oil change) – according to the regional representative – It’s like you never had it done.
This has me concerned, since I did the 1st oil change and planned on doing all future oil changes on my 08VUE. Have any owners experienced a warranty issue as a result of DYI oil changes?

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Old 06-06-2008, 08:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrealvue View Post
You're the exception to the rule I guess. My last 3 GM vehicles have had very poor quality. All models produced this decade and all known problems over many years and vehicles. I can totally understand L200INRI's frustration. Fix it properly the first year they find the problem! The Japanese and Korean manufacturers figured this one out years ago. GM still doesn't get it.

Though his lemon is worse than most I have heard of, I think many have experienced GM's poor workmanship and substandard quality on many occasions and still have a bad taste in their mouths about American cars. I can tell you that this will be my last Saturn as well, after 10 years of driving Saturns. I think 3 chances is enough.
Well said. I'm not ready to write off all American cars, but I will definitely NEVER buy another Saturn and this VUE is my 4th Saturn. I've always had a good retailer experience, but the quality just isn't there in comparison to other vehicles in the same class and there's the added gotcha of a steep depreciation hit compared to a number of imports.

Cheers,

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Old 06-06-2008, 10:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Sorry to hear of your issues... I had an '04 with what seemed to be problem after problem. I stuck with the Vue and bought an '06 when I heard the polymer was going away and there was a 0% interest deal. My '06 has been COMPLETELY trouble-free for 18K miles and almost 2 years. I know she still isn't broken in yet, but I can tell you that this one has certainly held up much better than my '04 did in the same time frame...

This makes me wonder more about quality control than overall quality from GM.

Now, I also own an '04 Honda Accord (I know completely different verhicle) with just under 50K miles. Other than replacing the center arm rest due to breakage, an airbag recall, and a new set of tires, this car has been fantastic. I swear it sounds and feels as solid as the day we left the dealer.

My family has now grown again by one. Not that I am not happy with my Vue, but I'll more than likely be trading it in for a minivan (OMG, did I just say that?) and it'll probably be an Odyssey....

Again, sorry to hear of your issues. Good luck with your future vehicle...

...
2004 Vue AWD V6

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Old 06-06-2008, 10:48 AM   #9
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

I have two sons with Saturn's and they have had great luck with them. I have a friend with an 08 Camry that has had all sorts of problems in the nine months he has owned it. Continues to have a no start issue they think is related to the security / chip in the key. He never knows if it is going to start or not. Toyota had a huge problem a few years back with engine sludge cused by oil passages that were too small. Then they blamed it on not changing the oil fequently enough even though customers had detailed records. Google Toyota engine sludge and see what you find. My point is it can happen to any brand.

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Old 06-06-2008, 10:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdude2468 View Post
Toyota had a huge problem a few years back with engine sludge cused by oil passages that were too small. Then they blamed it on not changing the oil fequently enough even though customers had detailed records.
You mean like the timing chain tensioner fiasco and notorious oil burning in the original Saturn 1.9L engines? Or is that import sludge a special kind?

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Old 06-06-2008, 11:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Ritz, yeah the notorious oil burning fiasco or timing chain tensioner issue (either are not really related to a safety issue, but rather a design flaw).

What about Toyota's side airbag issues in the camry?
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...ota_camry.html

Or how about the 04 Honda CRV's that had potential to catch fire?
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/crv_letter.html

Or the Accord's with airbag issues
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...da_accord.html

Doesn't stop there either...
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...sa_sienna.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...ota_scion.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...honda_fit.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...da_civic2.html

What I'm trying to get at, is that imports are not the end-all, be all of the auto industry. They too, have problems. Unfortunately, the media is so biased against the big 3, that they report everything, even the most miniscule of recalls, whereas the rest (such as the above mentioned links) have had little to no exposure in the media.

Toyota's problem is that they are now, where GM was in the 80's. Expanding at too fast a rate, that it lost focus on properly designing their offerings, and testing them to the fullest extent. Quality control is worse than ever before at Toyota. Did I mention that right now, they are even considering cutting their wages in half and axing the benefits plan they currently offer their workers? As well, any new worker that starts at Toyota has to put in a year before they are considered past their "trial period". Not allowed to call in sick, or book a day off for a needed emergency. I have a close friend who works at the Toyota assembly plant in Cambridge, Ontario who filled me in on this. Cost-cutting at its best.

Honda's problem is that their ego is simply too big to understand they aren't the best. Their $h!t apparantly smells like roses, and nothing they do is problematic. It's just not in the cards for Honda to make a mistake.

Simply put, the bottom two are coasting on a reputation they rightfully gained in the past, but don't necessarily deserve in this day in age.

...
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Lets not forget that Toyota recalled more vehicles than GM last year...hmmm...

Anything designed, built, and serviced with human hands is not going to be perfect. So get over it.

...
Freakin' Awesome!!

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Old 06-06-2008, 04:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Agreed.

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Old 06-06-2008, 05:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Later.

Happy motoring.

...
Not a Saturn.

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Old 06-06-2008, 06:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnd00d View Post

What I'm trying to get at, is that imports are not the end-all, be all of the auto industry. They too, have problems. Unfortunately, the media is so biased against the big 3, that they report everything, even the most miniscule of recalls, whereas the rest (such as the above mentioned links) have had little to no exposure in the media.
Saturn's problem isn't with the media, it's with consumers. Say whatever you want about Honda/Toyota/etc, but people are BUYING them. If a company can't make products that people WANT to buy, the company will go under.

GM has a bad reputation with consumers for a reason. As far as I'm concerned, they haven't done enough to repair that image and the results are showing up in the sales numbers.

Cheers,

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Old 06-06-2008, 07:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

People are buying them on the false notion that they are as reliable as they were in the 90's when the big 3 from detroit were at their all-time low. If there was even half of the media exposure on the import recalls, such as those examples mentioned above, the perception of import brands would not be close to what it is right now. Again, coasting on a reputation they no longer deserve.

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Old 06-06-2008, 08:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

I can understand that every now and then... A bad one comes out -- It was probably just fluke.... What bothers me the most is that they won't even stand behind it.

The LEAST they could do is offer me a deal on a new Saturn to make things right! I'm not asking for anything free... I've bought 3 vehicles from them.... That's what URK's me the most!

...
Bill in Rhode Island
--------------------------------
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2007 Jeep Wrangler X - 5-Speed

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Old 06-06-2008, 09:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

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Originally Posted by burnout View Post
Granted I really don't have that much experience with driving different types of cars.... however: I think it is a very safe call to say that GM cars do have the worst (slowest) drive by wire system in the industry right now.
No, it's actually not that bad.

There is a delay, and it is worse when the A/C is on, but it's maybe 1/4 - 1/3 of a second at most.

You have to remember, this is an SUV and not a sport compact. It's not built or engineered to be driven like one - even if it can be done. The throttle tip-in is programmed to be progressive on them - all it is is a varible in the ECM... GM doesn't want soccer moms laying rubber out of Costco, and it would give the magazines one more thing to ***** about. You can bet the 3.5L would have just as much as the 2.2 if it were available in manual.

Expecting throttle response befitting a hot hatch or something is going to leave you disappointed.

You want DBW throttle lag, go check out a 5 cylinder VW in manual form... better yet, drive one in the rain.. no fun at all.

~D.J.~

...
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2008 smart fortwo Passion Coupe 8/28/2008 - 3/12/2012
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandit77 View Post
Lets not forget that Toyota recalled more vehicles than GM last year...hmmm...

Anything designed, built, and serviced with human hands is not going to be perfect. So get over it.
Yeah, comforting words.....considering I am 400 km over my bumper to bumper warranty and the links and a CV joint on the right side are now making noise. As I said, I will NEVER AGAIN get another Vue. I looked at a Subaru today and am seriously considering dumping the Vue at a loss and getting one. At least the quality is there. Who cares about nice people in service dept's. I'd rather not know them at all!

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Old 06-07-2008, 04:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: Good-Bye & Saturn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by L200INRI View Post
they told me that since I did not have my regular service oil changes done by a retailer that they would not be able assist me either with the repair of this vehicle or some sort of a credit towards a new one.

Apparently, while it is not required to have your service done at a Saturn facility, since they cannot “Validate” the service performed (Even though I have receipts for every oil change) – according to the regional representative – It’s like you never had it done. I was told by the regional representative that I should have purchased an extended warranty when I had the chance.
You need to get a lawyer involved. If you have proof in the form of receipts that your oil was changed, then you have proof and that's that. They can't go around saying "well, you didn't get it changed at the dealers, so tough cookies." Look up "Magnuson-Moss Act" - it's the law that says that the warranty cannot force you to use a specific service that is not included free-of-charge in the warranty. I quoted this from a tire website.

"Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act, a vehicle manufacturer may not make its vehicle warranty conditional on the use of any brand of part unless the manufacturer provides the part free of charge or the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has specifically published that only the vehicle manufacturer’s product may be used. To challenge a false claim, ask the person to put it in writing, or request the vehicle manufacturer’s part free of charge. If you are charged for the part, or they refuse to give you a written statement, there may be a violation of Federal law.

This is the actual language of the act:

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this sub-section may be waived by the Commission if

1. the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
2. the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

The district courts of the United States shall have jurisdiction of any action brought by the Attorney General (in his capacity as such), or by the Commission by any of its attorneys designated by it for such purpose, to restrain (A) any warrantor from making a deceptive warranty with respect to a consumer product, or (B) any person from failing to comply with any requirement imposed on such person or pursuant to this chapter or from violating any prohibition contained in this chapter."


Here's the entire law:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht..._15_10_50.html

...
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