SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Astra > Astra General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2007, 07:54 PM   #1
gordonwd
Member
gordonwd is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 61
Default Sorry, Saturn...

...but thanks for helping us choose a new car!

My wife and I have lived and worked in Detroit, in and around the auto industry, all our lives and have always had at least one "American" car (whatever that means) in our garage. So after anticipating the Astra for months, and finally attending the preview drive on Wednesday, both my wife and I came away rather under whelmed by the Astra, but saying “that Mazda3 really seems like a better car for the money.” Before this evening, we had never taken a real look at the Mazda.

So we visited the Mazda dealer today for a closer look and test drive in the daylight, and will probably have one in a couple of weeks when our color comes in. There are a number of reasons why we like it better, starting with the interior storage room. Even the cargo area has some extra compartments and a flip-up divider, and of course it is a lot peppier with more horsepower and the 5-speed automatic.

Since my employer is a major supplier to Ford as well as GM, we get the same type of discount that comes out to about $2K, so for the same that we would have paid for the 5-door Astra XR, we’re getting a Mazda3s Grand Touring, with more features and what I consider a higher-tech-looking interior.

Seeing as how my son totaled his SL2 a few months ago, I guess I’ll be leaving the SaturnFans arena for the foreseeable future. Maybe when the next-generation Astra arrives…

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to gordonwd's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help gordonwd reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
gordonwd is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 11-10-2007, 09:27 PM   #2
eRic 02sc2
Super Member
eRic 02sc2 has a spectacular aura abouteRic 02sc2 has a spectacular aura about
 
eRic 02sc2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Closed Course. Professional Driver.
Posts: 14,543
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

well... Saturn took a risk having the Mazda3 and Rabbit there since they both have bigger, more powerful engines than the Astra. I wonder why they didn't have a manual 2-door Rabbit (hatch) to compare to the manual 3-door Astra. a Civic coupe would have been nice to have there too. it was fun though. usually ride-n-drives only have their brand vehicles without competitors

...
eRic 02sc2
DR SCCA Solo 2001,2002 1st DSP
WHRRi 2007,2010 Fun Run 1st
DR SCCA 2008 Triathalon 1st PF
DR SCCA Solo 2009 2nd ST
DR SCCA Solo 2010 1st ST
Crutchfield: pkeqe-6j8e3-d2qqe

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to eRic 02sc2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help eRic 02sc2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
eRic 02sc2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 09:55 PM   #3
trekkerguy
Member
trekkerguy is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Boise, Idaho USA
Posts: 226
 

2007 ION-2 Sedan
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...nger&v=t102719


Check that out, Mazda3 only beats it by a bit for power, i'd still take the Astra cause... well it's a Saturn. Either way my ION tops the Astra and is right with the Mazda3.

...
myspace.com/trekkerguy

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to trekkerguy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help trekkerguy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
trekkerguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2007, 11:39 PM   #4
BobbyP
Master Member
BobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really nice
 
BobbyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
 

2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

When I heard of the 1.8L engine in the Astra, I posted that it was not good enough. GM was not giving the US the whole "enchilada"... For this reason the car won't have enough impact in the US. History is repeating itself...

Wake up Saturn! Give the US the same package that works so well in Europe...

...
2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BobbyP's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BobbyP reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BobbyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 04:11 AM   #5
s-seriesguy
Senior Member
s-seriesguy will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,844
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Mazda 3, heh. lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
When I heard of the 1.8L engine in the Astra, I posted that it was not good enough. GM was not giving the US the whole "enchilada"... For this reason the car won't have enough impact in the US. History is repeating itself...

Wake up Saturn! Give the US the same package that works so well in Europe...
No, better yet bring the OPC styling and the 260 hp LNF Ecotec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1995 SC2 View Post
Sounds like the Astra Stumbled out of the Gate just like the Aura! LOL!!!!!!! So long Saturn! Hello Honda Fit!
Hello ugly as$ styling and a car that acclerates as fast as an 8 year old on a bike.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to s-seriesguy's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help s-seriesguy reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
s-seriesguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 02:46 PM   #6
GR898SL2
Master Member
GR898SL2 will become famous soon enoughGR898SL2 will become famous soon enough
 
GR898SL2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,527
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Good luck with the Mazda3, gordonwd. The 3 and Civic are considered best in class and from what I've seen of the next Corolla, it will be no threat, though will still sell like hotcakes.

Like Bobby P, I think GM/Saturn erred in minimizing the choices allowed for Astra buyers stateside, but they're hedging against losses for '08 and '09 (thanks in part to a weak dollar) until they can get Delta II online at Ramos or somewhere in the US. That version better offer the LNF turbo or I will not be a happy camper.


...
No more Saturns! :(
'11 & '15 Subaru Forester; '15 Nissan Altima

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to GR898SL2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help GR898SL2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
GR898SL2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 08:06 PM   #7
mkaresh
Advanced Member
mkaresh is on a distinguished road
 
mkaresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by trekkerguy View Post
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...nger&v=t102719


Check that out, Mazda3 only beats it by a bit for power, i'd still take the Astra cause... well it's a Saturn. Either way my ION tops the Astra and is right with the Mazda3.
That's a botched comparison. You're looking at the Mazda3 sedan, with a standard (and still stronger) 2.0-liter engine. The Mazda3 only comes with the 2.3-liter.

Also gotta love how the Astra is listed as a "sedan" by MSN.

My site provides a much better comparison between the two cars:

http://www.truedelta.com/comparisons...ion_code=&aff=

Ignore the cargo volume comparison. The two companies appear to be using different methods. Cargo volume numbers are nearly worthless. I've considered not even posting them, though they tend to be more comparable with sedans.

Also realize that the Mazda3 doesn't weigh as much.

The moment I saw that they were going to have us drive the Mazda3, I knew the Astra was in trouble. I'm really not sure how they expected to win people over with this event. The Rabbit, for its part, didn't handle as well, but felt considerably more luxurious and upscale than the other cars there.

So those looking for performance would choose the Mazda, those seeking an upscale feel would choose the VW, and I'm not sure where this leaves the Saturn. Except that it was the only 3-door.

Sure, the OPC would be nice. Though then the comparable car would be the MazdaSpeed3.

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mkaresh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mkaresh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mkaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 11:18 AM   #8
saturn_69
Master Member
saturn_69 will become famous soon enough
 
saturn_69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,642
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
That's a botched comparison. You're looking at the Mazda3 sedan, with a standard (and still stronger) 2.0-liter engine. The Mazda3 only comes with the 2.3-liter.
Huh? Standard 2.0 but it only comes with a 2.3? Did you mean the 5-door Mazda3? It also starts at $18,560....a full $4,030 higher than the sedan.

...
"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have" - H.D. Thoreau

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn_69's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn_69 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn_69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 11:23 AM   #9
saturn_69
Master Member
saturn_69 will become famous soon enough
 
saturn_69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,642
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
So those looking for performance would choose the Mazda, those seeking an upscale feel would choose the VW, and I'm not sure where this leaves the Saturn. Except that it was the only 3-door.
I wouldn't buy anything but the Saturn, so I guess that leaves it for people who like the way it looks and like it warts and all. Owning a car isn't about owning The Best, it's about owning what's best for you. You can't reduce a car purchase down to picking which one wins a comparison, where's the emotion, the sense of having to have the car? You're no better than the autorags.

...
"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have" - H.D. Thoreau

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn_69's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn_69 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn_69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 11:52 AM   #10
mkaresh
Advanced Member
mkaresh is on a distinguished road
 
mkaresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69 View Post
Huh? Standard 2.0 but it only comes with a 2.3? Did you mean the 5-door Mazda3? It also starts at $18,560....a full $4,030 higher than the sedan.
What's so hard to understand? The Astra is a five-door. So it makes sense that the car Saturn had at their comparison drives is the five-door Mazda3. And the base engine in that car is the 2.3.

The starting price is higher because the standard equipment level is higher. Compared to a similarly equipped Astra, the Mazda3 hatch lists for a few hundred more, so after haggling it will cost less than the Saturn.

Sorry, but while evaluating cars is subjective there's not much point in saying, "Yes, the Saturn is slower, less agile, has a boring interior, and costs more, but it's still a good car to buy for purely emotional reasons that have no rational basis."

I do try to evaluate a car from multiple perspectives, and point out from which perspective it might be the best choice. For the Astra, I'll go with German hatch with a sport package for much less than a GTI (since you can't get a full sport package on the Rabbit). But also far slower than a GTI.

You're apparently one of those people who perceives a lack of bias as bias.

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mkaresh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mkaresh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mkaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 12:37 PM   #11
saturn_69
Master Member
saturn_69 will become famous soon enough
 
saturn_69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,642
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
What's so hard to understand? The Astra is a five-door. So it makes sense that the car Saturn had at their comparison drives is the five-door Mazda3. And the base engine in that car is the 2.3.

The starting price is higher because the standard equipment level is higher. Compared to a similarly equipped Astra, the Mazda3 hatch lists for a few hundred more, so after haggling it will cost less than the Saturn.

Sorry, but while evaluating cars is subjective there's not much point in saying, "Yes, the Saturn is slower, less agile, has a boring interior, and costs more, but it's still a good car to buy for purely emotional reasons that have no rational basis."

I do try to evaluate a car from multiple perspectives, and point out from which perspective it might be the best choice. For the Astra, I'll go with German hatch with a sport package for much less than a GTI (since you can't get a full sport package on the Rabbit). But also far slower than a GTI.

You're apparently one of those people who perceives a lack of bias as bias.
Nothing was hard to understand, except your first sentence. You said, "You're looking at the Mazda3 sedan, with a standard (and still stronger) 2.0-liter engine. The Mazda3 only comes with the 2.3-liter." I assume you meant the 5-door, even though you didn't say that. The only thing I have a problem with about your viewpoint is that you don't take into account the intangibles and you assume that Joe Buyer is only interested in facts and figures. Car buying, just like the purchase of a home, is not all about the facts and figures. If it were, we'd all have the same house and same car since every manufacturer would only have to meet Criteria X and there would be no room for, nor any need for, diversity. Not everyone choose 'the Best Car', they choose the best car for them. The one they connect with, the one that pleases them when the drive it, the one they want to look at every day, the one they don't regret buying. That doesn't always mean the one with the best styling, the smallest panel gaps, the best fuel economy. Your site is good for facts and figures, one of the best actually, but it all is meaningless if the car looks like a turd and isn't any fun to drive. So what if value 'X' or category 'B' isn't so great on the Astra. There has to be more to life than that. Just because you didn't like it or it isn't the same as the much vaunted (and over-hyped, over-priced) Mazda3 doesn't mean it's not a great car that is light years beyond the Ion or S-series.

Oh, and btw, I didn't say you were biased, just that you forget the intangibles...although you did go into that comparison with a predisposed view of the Astra.

...
"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have" - H.D. Thoreau

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn_69's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn_69 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn_69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 12:53 PM   #12
mkaresh
Advanced Member
mkaresh is on a distinguished road
 
mkaresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Got it, I forgot the word "hatch," and can now see how that sentence might have been confusing.

If the Mazda3 is overpriced, then so is the Astra. But overhyped? The consensus at Saturn's own event seemed to be that the Mazda3 was the most enjoyable to drive and had the most stylish interior.

My site deals in facts and figures, true. I post my personal impressions elsewhere. I try to include intangibles in my reviews, but even these must have some basis. I've noted the Astra's strengths, specifically exterior styling and handling (though not steering feel).

Obviously, people who are especially loyal to the Saturn brand will like the car. It's a good car, and I've said as much. But as I've said a few times now, it's not clear how the Astra will bring new people to Saturn. Simply good is not good enough for a new entrant. And bringing in new customers is Saturn's #1 challenge. The current line hasn't been meeting expectations in this regard.

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mkaresh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mkaresh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mkaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 01:16 PM   #13
saturn_69
Master Member
saturn_69 will become famous soon enough
 
saturn_69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,642
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Methinks this Editorial sums it up; Lighten Up Guys. It was posted at GMInsideNews.com and I think it's a pretty valid argument, and the attitudes about the Astra. We simply have to find bad in everything.

...
"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have" - H.D. Thoreau

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn_69's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn_69 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn_69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 01:48 PM   #14
BobbyP
Master Member
BobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really nice
 
BobbyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
 

2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

So it's good being mediocre? GM has all the hardware to make the Astra a class act in the US. Head to head with the VW and Mazda 3 and not need to blink.

We all had high expectations for the Astra because we seen what GM gives the Astra in Europe.

Saturn's "Just good enough mentality" needs to go. The Astra could have been another winner for Saturn, instead we get another lack luster grocery go-getter...

What's next, bring back the Chevette?

...
2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BobbyP's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BobbyP reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BobbyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:11 PM   #15
saturn_69
Master Member
saturn_69 will become famous soon enough
 
saturn_69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,642
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyP View Post
So it's good being mediocre? GM has all the hardware to make the Astra a class act in the US. Head to head with the VW and Mazda 3 and not need to blink.

We all had high expectations for the Astra because we seen what GM gives the Astra in Europe.

Saturn's "Just good enough mentality" needs to go. The Astra could have been another winner for Saturn, instead we get another lack luster grocery go-getter...

What's next, bring back the Chevette?
Have you driven one? If not, why are you taking everyone else's word on it? Try it for yourself. If it meets your needs, then what's the issue? We just love to hate GM don't we. It's become ingrained in the American psyche. Sad. Man, the anti-American sentiment on this site is getting bad, it's almost as bad as Thomas Freidman or TheTruthAboutCars.com. I don't understand. No matter what GM/Saturn does, everyone rips it apart.

...
"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have" - H.D. Thoreau

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn_69's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn_69 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn_69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:13 PM   #16
mkaresh
Advanced Member
mkaresh is on a distinguished road
 
mkaresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Here's the response I posted over at GMI:

Criticism and dissatisfaction are the source of progress.

The majority of people no doubt have a perspective similar to the one in this editorial. They get upset by criticism, and generally wish all news was good news.

But if all people were like that, we'd still be living in caves.

That said, I personally find reviews most credible when they contain a mixture of praise and criticism. Too many people think that a product is either all good or all bad, and reality just isn't this simple.

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mkaresh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mkaresh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mkaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:16 PM   #17
saturn_69
Master Member
saturn_69 will become famous soon enough
 
saturn_69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,642
 
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh View Post
That said, I personally find reviews most credible when they contain a mixture of praise and criticism. Too many people think that a product is either all good or all bad, and reality just isn't this simple.
But all they remember is the bad, so a perfectly good -no, not perfect - car gets ignored because all someone can remember is the Mazda 3 is faster...as if that is the only thing that's important about a car.

...
"That government is best which governs not at all; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have" - H.D. Thoreau

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to saturn_69's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help saturn_69 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
saturn_69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:18 PM   #18
mkaresh
Advanced Member
mkaresh is on a distinguished road
 
mkaresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69 View Post
Have you driven one? If not, why are you taking everyone else's word on it? Try it for yourself. If it meets your needs, then what's the issue? We just love to hate GM don't we. It's become ingrained in the American psyche. Sad. Man, the anti-American sentiment on this site is getting bad, it's almost as bad as Thomas Freidman or TheTruthAboutCars.com. I don't understand. No matter what GM/Saturn does, everyone rips it apart.
You need to develop a more complex viewpoint. Every criticism of a Saturn is not evidence of anti-American sentiment. Sheesh, the car is even made in Germany, and is essentially a German car.

The simple fact is that if you stick a 138-horsepower 1.8-liter engine and four-speed automatic in a 2,900-pound car, that car is going to feel sluggish to just about anyone.

If enough people had your perspective, we'd never see a better powertrain in the car.

Blind loyalty to Saturn and accusing those who lack it of being anti-American benefits no one in the long term.

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mkaresh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mkaresh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mkaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:22 PM   #19
mkaresh
Advanced Member
mkaresh is on a distinguished road
 
mkaresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 934
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69 View Post
But all they remember is the bad, so a perfectly good -no, not perfect - car gets ignored because all someone can remember is the Mazda 3 is faster...as if that is the only thing that's important about a car.
That someone needs better reading comprehension.

The Mazda3 is not only quicker, but has more communicative steering, more agile handling, a more stylish interior, better ergonomics, more interior cargo space, a better feeling manual shifter, an extra ratio in the automatic transmission, proven reliability, and very likely other advantages I'm forgetting to list.

...
truedelta.com -- need more Saturns!
More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to mkaresh's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help mkaresh reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
mkaresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:35 PM   #20
BobbyP
Master Member
BobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really niceBobbyP is just really nice
 
BobbyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 7,030
 

2006 VUE Red Line
2007 SKY
Default Re: Sorry, Saturn...

Granted my comments are a little harsh, but considering all the resources GM has and not to have offered two levels of performance/power depending on the consumers needs is dumb.

Most every Saturn had two levels of performance to be competitive in their segment. It's like in the 60's. Race on Sunday, sales on Monday. The performance version will bring them into the showroom, and a majority will leave with the standard version.

The Astra may possibly become the car Saturn dealers wished they didn't have in their showrooms... This chassis will be obsolete in a short period of time. The next Astra chassis is due in two years.

When I get the opportunity I'll drive the Astra and let Saturn_69 know how it went...

...
2006 Black VUE Red Line - Now running iOS 11

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to BobbyP's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help BobbyP reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
BobbyP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Saturn Racing Group Saturn Show at Saturn of Tempe ry92sc Events 7 01-23-2005 09:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:06 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.