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Old 11-20-2006, 05:28 PM   #141
liquidslap
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewolf
Interesting, I don't recall that at all, care to show me where I said that?

This topic hasn't been about the Aura in a long time, in my opinion. You, of course, are free to post whatever you want. Conversely, I am free to post about whatever I want. It is my opinion, that this entire discussion had swerved off course. You are free to dispute that.

Please do not put words in my mouth and say I said something when I didn't.

This is basically why the discussion and swerved off course. We have been going back and forth stating our opinions (which still has nothing to do with the thread title). If I were to respond and counterpoint what you have said, you will then, counterpoint because you believe a certain thing. I could easily say that you didn't say "shut up" literally, but in the context of what you typed, that is basically what you were saying. Then you wouldn't agree and state why I am wrong, etc...

The same thing happened with the nav. vs. turn by turn debate. It's focusing on one point of a broad subject and from there it continued. I could have proved my point had I decided to just answer to your reply with what I wanted to say, but I chose not to because I wanted to point out that you have just posted several times outside of the subject of this thread because you wanted to prove a point.

The same applies to SaturnSales and I.

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Old 11-20-2006, 05:52 PM   #142
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidslap
I am not trying to convince anyone that aftermarket Nav. is better than OnStar turn by turn. It's an actual fact that turn by turn can't offer what a Nav.can offer. Any one person can see that turn by turn is what it is, turn by turn directions through your stereo system. That's it.

As far as the install for the Aura, if the parts are same price as my 04 SS Monte with onstar, $850 including system and a couple hours of my time. I am still well under a grand and I get many wonderful features that a OnStar turn by turn navigation can't offer me.
Slap.... thanks for answering my question.... no the wolf and I are NOT the same person... I just agreed with him that this was getting a little old... because we will never convince each other one way or the other... however
IF the system can be intergrated into the vehicle and still retain the other features of OnStar then great... I'll even admit it WOULD BE BETTER..... but for those who don't know how or don't want to do the work themselves it COULD be expensive... And I could see some people not liking to have to pull over and set the parking brake (according to pioneer's website) to input or change a destination... but again... it's all personal preference.... honestly... I really do hope that Nav is offered on the Aura for '08... it's gonna be hard to justify why it's not offered once the Outlook comes out and it is offered on the Outlook.... From here on out.. I'm just gonna agree to disagree... thanks for the debate.... have a good day...

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Old 11-20-2006, 06:57 PM   #143
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

OK.....let's get back to the topic.

Unless I missed it,I haven't seen any comments about the misaligned IP/door trim issue. According to both our local dealers,they have yet to receive either an XE or an XR with the trim aligned on both sides of the IP. It doesn't seem to make any difference if it is the wood grain or metalic trim and the degree of misalignment varies from 1/8th to over 1/4 inch in some cases. This doesn't sound like much but it is in such an obvious location that it is hard to miss and has certainly been remarked upon by far too many of my informant's potential customers for their liking.

The random nature of the mismatch as to which side and whether it is top or bottom of the trim(sometimes the door trim is above IP trim,others it is below) indicates this is a production line problem.One dealer tried to see if door hinge adjustment would help but to no avail.

This cosmetic glitch is the sort of thing that CR and others will point to as an indication that the "fit and finish" is not on a par with the competition. This is a shame because the Aura really is an excellent car but it is the sort of thing that the average buyer looks at and says..."hhhmmmm...what about how well put together are the parts that I can't see?"

I have personally seen one XR in the USA where the trim was aligned perfectly which would indicate that it can be done.

For those who have bought an Aura....how does the trim line up ?

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Old 11-20-2006, 07:18 PM   #144
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Mine and the ones I saw at my local dealer had aligning pieces. Mine is a late October build.

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Old 11-20-2006, 07:51 PM   #145
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

My trim is lined up, though I have seen some that weren't. I wonder if maybe they were having issues early on and worked them out.

Overall, this is GM's finest car. Next year it should be more refined, and these types of issues shouldn't exist anymore.

...
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:20 PM   #146
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
OK.....let's get back to the topic.

Unless I missed it,I haven't seen any comments about the misaligned IP/door trim issue. According to both our local dealers,they have yet to receive either an XE or an XR with the trim aligned on both sides of the IP. It doesn't seem to make any difference if it is the wood grain or metalic trim and the degree of misalignment varies from 1/8th to over 1/4 inch in some cases. This doesn't sound like much but it is in such an obvious location that it is hard to miss and has certainly been remarked upon by far too many of my informant's potential customers for their liking.

The random nature of the mismatch as to which side and whether it is top or bottom of the trim(sometimes the door trim is above IP trim,others it is below) indicates this is a production line problem.One dealer tried to see if door hinge adjustment would help but to no avail.

This cosmetic glitch is the sort of thing that CR and others will point to as an indication that the "fit and finish" is not on a par with the competition. This is a shame because the Aura really is an excellent car but it is the sort of thing that the average buyer looks at and says..."hhhmmmm...what about how well put together are the parts that I can't see?"

I have personally seen one XR in the USA where the trim was aligned perfectly which would indicate that it can be done.

For those who have bought an Aura....how does the trim line up ?


I don't think I have noticed misaligned trim pieces. I am going to have to check this out the next time I am at the Saturn dealership. If the pieces are misaligned, is this something that can be fixed before I drive off the lot?

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Old 11-20-2006, 09:54 PM   #147
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
Here ya go....it fits in the door pocket:



And it costs less than $20! Bonus!

RIGHT ON!! Unfortunately, I need the larege print edition as my eyes have started going at the young age of 39

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Old 11-21-2006, 02:00 AM   #148
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Liquidslap;

I was told that it can't be done once the trim is put on at the factory and that there was nothing in the workshop/maintenance data base on the subject so far.

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Old 11-21-2006, 10:32 AM   #149
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by L100
RIGHT ON!! Unfortunately, I need the large print edition as my eyes have started going at the young age of 39
I don't think anyone else appreciated my post. Thanks for the acknowledgement.

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Old 11-21-2006, 10:33 AM   #150
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
OK.....let's get back to the topic.

Unless I missed it,I haven't seen any comments about the misaligned IP/door trim issue. According to both our local dealers,they have yet to receive either an XE or an XR with the trim aligned on both sides of the IP. It doesn't seem to make any difference if it is the wood grain or metalic trim and the degree of misalignment varies from 1/8th to over 1/4 inch in some cases. This doesn't sound like much but it is in such an obvious location that it is hard to miss and has certainly been remarked upon by far too many of my informant's potential customers for their liking.

The random nature of the mismatch as to which side and whether it is top or bottom of the trim(sometimes the door trim is above IP trim,others it is below) indicates this is a production line problem.One dealer tried to see if door hinge adjustment would help but to no avail.

This cosmetic glitch is the sort of thing that CR and others will point to as an indication that the "fit and finish" is not on a par with the competition. This is a shame because the Aura really is an excellent car but it is the sort of thing that the average buyer looks at and says..."hhhmmmm...what about how well put together are the parts that I can't see?"

I have personally seen one XR in the USA where the trim was aligned perfectly which would indicate that it can be done.

For those who have bought an Aura....how does the trim line up ?
Mine lines up pretty good. Is it perfect, no. Could it be better, yes. However, one thing I would like to point out is that from a total build quality standpoint my Aura has been better than the 06 Accord V6 I traded in. Although some of the materials and finish in the Accord were better I justify my comments based on the numerous squeeks and rattles that were coming out of the Accord interior. My Aura XR has been absolutely solid and quiet over the 8800 miles I have driven. With this in mind I can forgive some minor trim issues. GM did not cut costs in the NVH department and the fit and engineering to achieve this is world class.

Thanks

DT

Slver XR

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Old 11-21-2006, 07:48 PM   #151
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Hugh nailed it. Those who are not loyal to GM see this and think it is not well made. AuraXR might be right about the NVH being great. Problem is that a lot of people see poor fitting materials and think that is a sign of what is underneath. Then GM puts the same ill-fitting pieces out to the automotive press and they say the same thing. When you see it and then read about it, "It must be real". Those people are then not buying the car to know at 8,800 miles that everything is still solid. GM fans will know it, but other folks won't.

Remember, GM is the one that made such huge promises about the interior and compared it to an Acura TL. Perhaps if they talked about their improvements, people would be cutting them some slack. When they claimed to be an Acura and missed by such an enormous amount, they have to expect to be called on the carpet. Now GM is in the position of next year trying to change people's perceptions ABOUT the Aura instead of changing them WITH the Aura. That is really a shame.

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Old 11-22-2006, 09:33 AM   #152
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma
Hugh nailed it. Those who are not loyal to GM see this and think it is not well made. AuraXR might be right about the NVH being great. Problem is that a lot of people see poor fitting materials and think that is a sign of what is underneath. Then GM puts the same ill-fitting pieces out to the automotive press and they say the same thing. When you see it and then read about it, "It must be real". Those people are then not buying the car to know at 8,800 miles that everything is still solid. GM fans will know it, but other folks won't.

Remember, GM is the one that made such huge promises about the interior and compared it to an Acura TL. Perhaps if they talked about their improvements, people would be cutting them some slack. When they claimed to be an Acura and missed by such an enormous amount, they have to expect to be called on the carpet. Now GM is in the position of next year trying to change people's perceptions ABOUT the Aura instead of changing them WITH the Aura. That is really a shame.

Sorry my brother owns a 2006 TL with navi and the car on his own recognition doesn't compare astheticaly with the Aura. I have driven his car and while fun to drive it is not as quite and is much "colder" on the inside than the Aura.

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Old 11-22-2006, 10:38 AM   #153
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Huge promises or not a 27K Aura XR is a better value than a 35K Acura TL. I drove the TL and Accord and the Aura deliveres a much better experience both inside and out. NVH, drive train, build, and looks. You drive it and you know whats underneath...a solid smooth platform. Are there some minor interior issues, sure. But when you compare the two the XR is a much better value. Remember the TL does have a better more expensive interior but it does not live up to its trim level in overall value and performance. The XR does. 35K-rattles and vibrations. 27K-quiet and smooth. You make the choice!

PS Read the Honda forums and you will get the picture.

DT

Aura XR

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:24 AM   #154
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Well, I must be a total idiot then. I think the interior of the Aura is great; nicely styled, nice materials, roomy and comfortable. I could care less what any magazine says about it or how they rave that Toyota/Acura/Lexus/Honda or who the heck ever is better. I like it. It's a car, and if you place that much freakin' emphasis on what the armrests are made of, you need help. Unclench, the planets will still turn. Toyota could secretly build a car with their own parts, design and materials, put a Chevy emblem on it and the press would tear it to shreds. The reviews of GM cars aren't unbiased, they're tainted by years of opinion....outdated opinion at that.

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Old 11-22-2006, 12:52 PM   #155
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
Well, I must be a total idiot then. I think the interior of the Aura is great; nicely styled, nice materials, roomy and comfortable. I could care less what any magazine says about it or how they rave that Toyota/Acura/Lexus/Honda or who the heck ever is better. I like it. It's a car, and if you place that much freakin' emphasis on what the armrests are made of, you need help. Unclench, the planets will still turn. Toyota could secretly build a car with their own parts, design and materials, put a Chevy emblem on it and the press would tear it to shreds. The reviews of GM cars aren't unbiased, they're tainted by years of opinion....outdated opinion at that.
^^^^^^^^^I AGREE^^^^^^^^^^

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Old 11-22-2006, 01:03 PM   #156
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Get over the thoughts of "Poor GM. No one will give them a fair review".

Bottom line is this. People have been leaving GM for years at rates that are alarming. That is not because Car and Driver has a slanted opinion. People that buy the cars drive and look at all of the cars. Everyday consumers are the ones thumbing their noses at GM. The Accord and Camry are clobbering GM. Why? They offer what the consumer wants. GM still is not willing to accept that consumers are willing to pay for a nicer interior. Perhaps if they figure that out, they will start seeing an increase in sales.

Think of it this way. Those that love the Saturn brand are the ones defending the interior in this forum. Those that are thinking of changing from other brands are the ones struggling with the purchase decision. I would argue that we are not the ones with biased opinions. Rather, it might be the other way around. If you care about GM shouldn't you want them to offer a car that will gain consumers from other brands rather than keeping them away? Blame magazines if you want but bottom line is this, GM has made crappy cars for 30 years. They are just now trying to make good cars. Old habits die hard and they still have left little bits of the past in the Aura.

Do I think that there is hope for the Aura interior next year? Nope. Take a look at this picture and you will see that the new Malibu has the same interior pieces. Hmmm... GM is trying to move Saturn upscale (where they wanted Olds as an import fighter) and they give it the same interior as a low end Chevy. It is pathetic that they don't understand that you can't claim to be an upmarket car and make it look like the LOWEST END BRAND on the market. GM has already stated that Saturn has to grow in order to remain a viable brand. I would prefer to see them hit the target market, grow sales, and prosper rather than following Olds. Copying an entry level Chevy interior is probably not the way forward for an "upscale" car.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS

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Old 11-22-2006, 01:19 PM   #157
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma
Get over the thoughts of "Poor GM. No one will give them a fair review".

Bottom line is this. People have been leaving GM for years at rates that are alarming. That is not because Car and Driver has a slanted opinion. People that buy the cars drive and look at all of the cars. Everyday consumers are the ones thumbing their noses at GM. The Accord and Camry are clobbering GM. Why? They offer what the consumer wants. GM still is not willing to accept that consumers are willing to pay for a nicer interior. Perhaps if they figure that out, they will start seeing an increase in sales.

Think of it this way. Those that love the Saturn brand are the ones defending the interior in this forum. Those that are thinking of changing from other brands are the ones struggling with the purchase decision. I would argue that we are not the ones with biased opinions. Rather, it might be the other way around. If you care about GM shouldn't you want them to offer a car that will gain consumers from other brands rather than keeping them away? Blame magazines if you want but bottom line is this, GM has made crappy cars for 30 years. They are just now trying to make good cars. Old habits die hard and they still have left little bits of the past in the Aura.

Do I think that there is hope for the Aura interior next year? Nope. Take a look at this picture and you will see that the new Malibu has the same interior pieces. Hmmm... GM is trying to move Saturn upscale (where they wanted Olds as an import fighter) and they give it the same interior as a low end Chevy. It is pathetic that they don't understand that you can't claim to be an upmarket car and make it look like the LOWEST END BRAND on the market. GM has already stated that Saturn has to grow in order to remain a viable brand. I would prefer to see them hit the target market, grow sales, and prosper rather than following Olds. Copying an entry level Chevy interior is probably not the way forward for an "upscale" car.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS
IMO you are just trying to start pissing people off. If you can honestly say you think the Camry has a nicer interior I personally know how to judge you

The real deal is that the media for very long has supported the old notion that Import quality is FAR superior than domestic, and for years that was true. The days of the old laborer "just building and not caring" is over. The fact is that GM has taken the quality level up a notch in the last few years and have some of the best running standards and plants in the industry.

People that purchase and have purchased imports in the recent past like to belive that they have made the right decision and some of them are right.

In truth however GM has it giong on and will continue to reclaim market share and dominate once again.

Just watch from the sidelines and continue to spread the Import word for yourself, like I said before if you say the Camry interior is nicer than the Aura then you would be better suited for the bland boring import market anyways...

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Old 11-22-2006, 01:33 PM   #158
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma
Get over the thoughts of "Poor GM. No one will give them a fair review".

Bottom line is this. People have been leaving GM for years at rates that are alarming. That is not because Car and Driver has a slanted opinion. People that buy the cars drive and look at all of the cars. Everyday consumers are the ones thumbing their noses at GM. The Accord and Camry are clobbering GM. Why? They offer what the consumer wants. GM still is not willing to accept that consumers are willing to pay for a nicer interior. Perhaps if they figure that out, they will start seeing an increase in sales.

Think of it this way. Those that love the Saturn brand are the ones defending the interior in this forum. Those that are thinking of changing from other brands are the ones struggling with the purchase decision. I would argue that we are not the ones with biased opinions. Rather, it might be the other way around. If you care about GM shouldn't you want them to offer a car that will gain consumers from other brands rather than keeping them away? Blame magazines if you want but bottom line is this, GM has made crappy cars for 30 years. They are just now trying to make good cars. Old habits die hard and they still have left little bits of the past in the Aura.

Do I think that there is hope for the Aura interior next year? Nope. Take a look at this picture and you will see that the new Malibu has the same interior pieces. Hmmm... GM is trying to move Saturn upscale (where they wanted Olds as an import fighter) and they give it the same interior as a low end Chevy. It is pathetic that they don't understand that you can't claim to be an upmarket car and make it look like the LOWEST END BRAND on the market. GM has already stated that Saturn has to grow in order to remain a viable brand. I would prefer to see them hit the target market, grow sales, and prosper rather than following Olds. Copying an entry level Chevy interior is probably not the way forward for an "upscale" car.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS
While it is true that people are leaving GM and it is not due to slanted reviews. How can GM win back those customers when the slanted reviews make it look like GM is crap still? When my local car show comes to my town in January, I will sit in a Camry and compare it with the Aura's interior. I bet they will be about the same, but I won't tout that until I see it for myself. But, the interior of the Aura is a very good interior. The dash and doors use good soft materials. Right now you're issues with the interior( locking glove box, etc) are all minor things. Once again, I will look if the Camry has the things the Aura is missing. From the Camry web page at Toyota.com, it doesn't look like the Camry doesn't have dual climate control. There goes one complaint as the Camry doesn't have it either. Nothing saying it has a lockable trunk. But, I will have to see it in person to confirm if it is missing. So far though the only thing the Aura is missing that the competition has is a nav system and the lockable glovebox. For '08 MY I expect a nav system. Still currently, the no nav and no lockable glovebox is not enough to make the Aura non competitive and have people buy the Camry over it without a fair comparison.

Last edited by Chevy_Rules; 11-22-2006 at 01:44 PM..

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Old 11-22-2006, 01:39 PM   #159
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma
Bottom line is this. People have been leaving GM for years at rates that are alarming. That is not because Car and Driver has a slanted opinion. People that buy the cars drive and look at all of the cars. Everyday consumers are the ones thumbing their noses at GM. The Accord and Camry are clobbering GM. Why? They offer what the consumer wants. GM still is not willing to accept that consumers are willing to pay for a nicer interior. Perhaps if they figure that out, they will start seeing an increase in sales.

Think of it this way. Those that love the Saturn brand are the ones defending the interior in this forum. Those that are thinking of changing from other brands are the ones struggling with the purchase decision. I would argue that we are not the ones with biased opinions. Rather, it might be the other way around. If you care about GM shouldn't you want them to offer a car that will gain consumers from other brands rather than keeping them away? Blame magazines if you want but bottom line is this, GM has made crappy cars for 30 years. They are just now trying to make good cars. Old habits die hard and they still have left little bits of the past in the Aura.

Do I think that there is hope for the Aura interior next year? Nope. Take a look at this picture and you will see that the new Malibu has the same interior pieces. Hmmm... GM is trying to move Saturn upscale (where they wanted Olds as an import fighter) and they give it the same interior as a low end Chevy. It is pathetic that they don't understand that you can't claim to be an upmarket car and make it look like the LOWEST END BRAND on the market. GM has already stated that Saturn has to grow in order to remain a viable brand. I would prefer to see them hit the target market, grow sales, and prosper rather than following Olds. Copying an entry level Chevy interior is probably not the way forward for an "upscale" car.
Uh, whatever. I don't know of any people who are leaving GM at alarming rates. My family buys GM, always has, always will. The Japanese are not superior to the domestics, they just have much better word of mouth that has carried over from the 80's. Look how many recalls Toyota/Lexus has had this year, in Toyota's effort to take the #1 spot in global sales away from GM, their reputation for impeccable quality has taken a slip. A big slip? Not really, but a slip nonetheless. Will it affect them? Probably not. Doesn't matter to me, I'll never buy a Japanese car.

As for the Malibu having the same interior pieces as the Aura....nope. Just the steering wheel and possibly the shifter handle. Nothing else is the exact same thing as the Aura pieces. You don't like the interior? Fine, don't buy the car. Quit trying to tell the rest of us that do like it that we're fanboys or have biased opinions. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone is going to like the same things. I, for one, think the Camry looks like a bloated, overgrown Yaris sedan/bar of Zest combo on the outside, and a cheaply made, mid-80's GXP boombox on the inside. It's ugly, dull and not very impressive. But that's my opinion.

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Old 11-22-2006, 02:05 PM   #160
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Default Re: Thoughts on Cost Cutting Interior

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma
However, compared to the competition GM has really cut some corners.

A couple of areas are:
* Elbow rest made of CHEAP plastic instead of padded (don't get me started on the fake stiching. Hello 1971 Olds?)
* No locking storage inside (glove box or center stack)
* No switch to turn off the trunk release. If you valet, anyone can get into your trunk AND glovebox
* No Bluetooth
* No dual-climate
* No Navigation
* The center stack wobbles around instead of being firmly in place

To me it really is a shame because GM has built a nice car to drive and look at from the outside. However, the inside has been cut to pieces and I am having a hard time justifying the purchase of this car. Especially when the competition offers all of these features for approx. the same price (not list - what you would actually pay).
Having different features and using different materials isn't an indication of cutting corners. Having a non-tilt/telescoping wheel is. Having only one interior trim is. Having a seat that doesn't raise or lower is. Just because the Aura isn't a Camry or Accord clone - and thank God for that - doesn't mean it's crap inside.

The armrest on the doors is soft plastic, and the stitching isn't that bad, at least the armrest is usable. People'd piss and moan if it didn't have the stitching. The center stack wobbles? Where the radio/HVAC controls are? No it doesn't, at least in the 6 or 7 I've been in. The center console where the adjustable armrest may be what you mean....and the ones I saw, the sliding part had a little side-to-side play in it, but not to the point of feeling broken or cheap. There is a valet lock-out in the trunk, just like every other Saturn. No Bluetooth? No Nav? OnStar does both of those; hands free calling and Turn-by-Turn navigation. Yeah, it doesn't have the prestige of Bluetooth or a DVD-based Nav system but c'mon, it's the first year. Let go of your hate...hate leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to the Dark Side.

For not wanting to piss people off, you're sure doing a mighty fine job of it. You made your points, now please stop trying to convince us that we're stupid for liking the Aura interior or for disagreeing with you. Let it go.....

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