SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Mods
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2013, 01:11 PM   #1
DirtSaturn02
New Member
DirtSaturn02 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
Default N/A High Rpm Build

Racing a Saturn circle track, I've done some research and have the car working well in the stock class in which I race. I'd like to move up to the modified class but I need more power (Can't lose weight as both classes require 2400 lbs and we have to scale after feature). Our modified class is dominated by Hondas and old Quad 4's and Eco Tecs. I've raced with them and have no where the power I need.

Currently running a 98 twin cam motor, egr and pcv blocked and bypassed, factory tubular header, auto computer, 97 fuel rail with adjustable regulator, f150 pump, and 5 gallon cell. Single cam trans for gearing. I twist the motor about 7300-7400 rpms each time out. The motor has proven to take this but I doubt it would take any more. I'd like to be able to run 8000-8500, I would still be lower than some of the b18 guys I know are twisting theirs 9200. I know you guys say it's pointless to twist that high because of power loss, but gear more than makes up for it. Coming out of the corner at 5000 and pulling the wider range really helps with acceleration vs going from 4500-5800, as I do in third with twin cam trans and small tires.

What I would like to know is
1) More power, best way to get it, cams, head porting, and which cams to go with. Motor is getting stripped and redone this winter, and I have someone who can port heads. How far can you shave the head? Who makes a reasonable price dome piston?
2) More RPM, what is needed to twist the LLO 8k-8500, destroke it, if so what crank can I use? What valve springs, rods, etc. I planned on using a newer bottom end with the better components and girdle.
3) Am I better off just swappin in a built eco tec and fabricating mounts and axles?

I like the Saturn, the availablity of parts, and I'm always a bit of an odd ball so I really don't want to join the honda and quad 4/eco tec club. But I want to move up and be a contender.

Thanks!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DirtSaturn02's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DirtSaturn02 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DirtSaturn02 is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 09-27-2013, 02:16 PM   #2
cloud819
Master Member
cloud819 will become famous soon enough
 
cloud819's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 2,313
 

2001 SC2
Default Re: N/A High Rpm Build

Well, you are probably cutting edge with your current high RPM use.

I'd bet that the later bottom end is a bit better for high RPM use.

I've heard that the later heads could take the Ecotech springs and that would help cut the valve float they have at high RPMs.

You could probably use some cam too. Stock cams are not setup for high RPM.

Ports can do a lot as the ports are made for lower engine speeds.

All that work may get you more power at high RPM but the Saturn is a long stroke engine and 8K is pretty high up there. You will run into piston acceleration speed issues and rods will go. De-stroking will solve that, but will lose you power as well.

You may be able to cut the stroke, by having the crank cut and re-ground for a shorter stroke, but you'll have to make some length back up with piston.

I know some later engines had different piston and rod lengths (all 99 and up are the same) Perhaps their pistons were a bit taller. You may be able to make a 99+ de-stroked crank and 99+ rod work with a earlier taller piston (again if they were taller).

You'd probably want to back into the de-stroke though. So get the tallest piston then try to make its increase in height your de-stroke. All of that will be judged possible by you ability to source bearings that could deal with the cut required on the crank to reach that stroke.

8000K will be a feat for sure.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to cloud819's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help cloud819 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
cloud819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 07:27 PM   #3
bairdandrew77
New Member
bairdandrew77 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
Default Re: N/A High Rpm Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtSaturn02 View Post
Racing a Saturn circle track, I've done some research and have the car working well in the stock class in which I race. I'd like to move up to the modified class but I need more power (Can't lose weight as both classes require 2400 lbs and we have to scale after feature). Our modified class is dominated by Hondas and old Quad 4's and Eco Tecs. I've raced with them and have no where the power I need.

Currently running a 98 twin cam motor, egr and pcv blocked and bypassed, factory tubular header, auto computer, 97 fuel rail with adjustable regulator, f150 pump, and 5 gallon cell. Single cam trans for gearing. I twist the motor about 7300-7400 rpms each time out. The motor has proven to take this but I doubt it would take any more. I'd like to be able to run 8000-8500, I would still be lower than some of the b18 guys I know are twisting theirs 9200. I know you guys say it's pointless to twist that high because of power loss, but gear more than makes up for it. Coming out of the corner at 5000 and pulling the wider range really helps with acceleration vs going from 4500-5800, as I do in third with twin cam trans and small tires.

What I would like to know is
1) More power, best way to get it, cams, head porting, and which cams to go with. Motor is getting stripped and redone this winter, and I have someone who can port heads. How far can you shave the head? Who makes a reasonable price dome piston?
2) More RPM, what is needed to twist the LLO 8k-8500, destroke it, if so what crank can I use? What valve springs, rods, etc. I planned on using a newer bottom end with the better components and girdle.
3) Am I better off just swappin in a built eco tec and fabricating mounts and axles?

I like the Saturn, the availablity of parts, and I'm always a bit of an odd ball so I really don't want to join the honda and quad 4/eco tec club. But I want to move up and be a contender.

Thanks!
Does it have to be N/A? It might be better and cheaper to go turbo if the rules allow it

...
1986 Honda CRX- SOLD
1997 Ford F350 crew cab long bed- SOLD
1996 Ford Explorer
1997 Saturn SW2
1999 Honda Accord coupe- project car!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to bairdandrew77's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help bairdandrew77 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
bairdandrew77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 09:38 PM   #4
johnny95sl2
Senior Member
johnny95sl2 will become famous soon enough
 
johnny95sl2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,139

1997 SW2
1995 SC2
Default Re: N/A High Rpm Build

Look around on 6S for the 3rd gen rods and 1st gen piston mod. You can get up to 13:1 compression if you are careful. Couple that with some race cams and you will gobs more high end power.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to johnny95sl2's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help johnny95sl2 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
johnny95sl2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2013, 06:49 AM   #5
ddeuces22
Advanced Member
ddeuces22 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 633

1996 SL2
Default Re: N/A High Rpm Build

This just seems like another 1 post wonder who did no research.... sixth sphere is where u wanna be for a build like this. Definitely wanna use a 3rd gen crank with the 00+ dohc tie plate. Also look into gude cams or mid-penn regrinds, those are our only 2 readily available options at this point. I don't think de-stroking these motors has been done before. Head shave can be done up to .060-.070 but I believe the service limit is in the .040 range. There's also a few different NA pistons for sale on 6s if u look deep into the threads, maybe 2nd or third page

Head shave
Cams...probly should use race cams
3rd gen bottom end with oo+ dohc tie plate
Probly some kind of head work... 98 valve springs are stiffer than other years
Sivalves.com has undercut and swirl polished ss valves and bronze manganeze guides

...
96 sl2 stage 1 midpenn cams,91/92 header,2.25 ss exhaust, ported and polished head, groundpounder, sda bones, pimped tranny mount, .40 o/s pistons, .25 u/s rods, .25 u/s crank,19mm progress swaybar

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to ddeuces22's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help ddeuces22 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
ddeuces22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1995 dohc high-performance engine build Bossboy302 S-Series Tech 10 07-24-2013 06:00 AM
solved high idle, now high temp/no heat gdf_sl1 S-Series General 7 10-10-2012 12:26 PM
Very High Pitch Noise only at high speed, and doesn't depend on engine load StandsOnToes S-Series Tech 2 01-06-2010 07:00 PM
Build your own ION y2chuck Ion General 10 12-01-2002 01:37 PM
Another example of high build quality skijay General Saturn Discussion 7 06-25-2002 05:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:20 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.