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Old 11-22-2017, 02:37 AM   #61
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Industry standard is 30psi. It's a compromise of tread life, user comfort and acceleration/braking/tire safety.
I find that the door sticker errr's too far on the soft-ride side and run 35-40psi unless that over-pressurizes the tire. I do have rather fast tread wear, but I don't slow down for corners and I tend to drive vehicles where the alignment is a bit out of wack.

Tire pressure & racing (just because if you don't see a difference in handling in a racing environment you aren't going to see it day-to-day): http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling_pressure
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:45 AM   #62
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Not so much pressure related as tire related.

On my way from Las Vegas to Phoenix I had a flat. Tires only have 20,000 miles on them and I really couldn't see a puncture. Anyhow, that's not the question.

I was traveling on a Sunday and the only place open had a Kelly Edge tire in P185/65R15.

As crazy as it seems, I expect that it's going to bother me to have an unmatched set of tires on the car. So ... are Kelly's any good (should I get three more?) or four of something else.

Since new in 1996 this car has had a couple of sets of the OEM (Firestone?) tires and a couple of sets of Falken Tires sold at Discount Tires.

Any opinions?
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:54 AM   #63
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Try either a General RT43 in “H” speed rating,
Or
My local tire shop got me a pair of Hercules Road Tour 4.0, for $100, out the door...
https://www.herculestire.com/tire-de...r%204.0%20Plus
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:23 AM   #64
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Cee View Post
Not so much pressure related as tire related.

On my way from Las Vegas to Phoenix I had a flat. Tires only have 20,000 miles on them and I really couldn't see a puncture. Anyhow, that's not the question.

I was traveling on a Sunday and the only place open had a Kelly Edge tire in P185/65R15.

As crazy as it seems, I expect that it's going to bother me to have an unmatched set of tires on the car. So ... are Kelly's any good (should I get three more?) or four of something else.

Since new in 1996 this car has had a couple of sets of the OEM (Firestone?) tires and a couple of sets of Falken Tires sold at Discount Tires.

Any opinions?
The Kelly tires are decent quality tires how they perforem depends on the tread pattern and the other ratings.
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Old 11-27-2017, 09:00 AM   #65
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Tire manufacturers are well aware of the “contact patch” for each tire they manufacture.
For a given weight placed on a tire, a tire will require a certain amount of air to achieve the ideal contact patch.
You would think that the weight of the car is known.
You would think a TPMS would give the driver the tire pressure. Heck, even a tire gauge could work!
You would think a tire manufacturer would give a chart presenting,
STATIC LOAD vs. PSI REQUIRED
The PSI REQUIRED would be the fully-warmed, hot tire pressure.
Then, it is up to the consumer to figure the corresponding “cold” tire pressure.

But instead passenger car owners are supposed to drink 10 cups of coffee and aim a remote temperature probe, that constantly reverts to Centegrade scale, at their tires like the gentleman in the video (linked in a previous post above).

Do I ask too much? Yes. It’s not like tires are that important anyway.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:48 AM   #66
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

There is a pressure-load chart for every single tire product line. They can be dug out of the Tire Manufacturers website or asked for on the phone. For the vast majority of consumers the only constant is cold tire pressure as the manufacturer will not generally publish hot tire pressures as ther are way too many unknowns and the legal risk is high. If you are actually running a racing team then you will get hot data to set up the car for a given track.

I linked just 1 of those pressure-load charts way up there in this thread.

Actual total wheel weight at the ground is generally known for each vehicle and can be accurately measured if desired by the individual owner.

The B.S. from the discount tire stores and the call in tech support is the result of various events including the FORD Firestone roll over foul-up. If you really want answers you have to penetrate that 1st and 2nd level tech support and get into the engineering department.

Last edited by OldNuc; 11-27-2017 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:13 PM   #67
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpdraft View Post
Tire manufacturers are well aware of the “contact patch” for each tire they manufacture.
For a given weight placed on a tire, a tire will require a certain amount of air to achieve the ideal contact patch.
You would think that the weight of the car is known.
You would think a TPMS would give the driver the tire pressure. Heck, even a tire gauge could work!
You would think a tire manufacturer would give a chart presenting,
STATIC LOAD vs. PSI REQUIRED
The PSI REQUIRED would be the fully-warmed, hot tire pressure.
Then, it is up to the consumer to figure the corresponding “cold” tire pressure.

But instead passenger car owners are supposed to drink 10 cups of coffee and aim a remote temperature probe, that constantly reverts to Centegrade scale, at their tires like the gentleman in the video (linked in a previous post above).

Do I ask too much? Yes. It’s not like tires are that important anyway.
Personally, I think you're making this thread way over blown.

1-Use the tire placard on the door for the recommended tire pressures, regardless of what tire you buy. If you're not racing, the tire placard is the go-to chart for 99% of drivers.

2-After driving with recommended pressures and you're not happy, increase or decrease pressures approximately two or four psi on all for tires and see how your car handles. Experiment to your hearts content until you arrive at what feels right for you. If you're like most drivers, you'll come to some conclusion not very far from recommended pressures. Weather, temperature and road conditions (rain, ice, snow, wet leaves, gravel, etc) also affects how tires and pressures changes vehicle handling.

3-If you don't like standard tire recommendations from door placards recommending tire pressures then by all means research to your hearts content and go deep into the sciences to determine what's best for you and the tires you buy. Its always your choice.

Whether or not you choose to believe it, tire placards already take into account initial cold tire pressures, ambient temperature and individual tire load for the vehicle. Owner's manual go a little deeper to recommend a few psi higher for winter temps due to pressure drops from colder temps. No more than about two to four psi or one/two psi drop for every ten degrees F.
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:52 PM   #68
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Personally, I think you're making this thread way over blown.

1-Use the tire placard on the door for the recommended tire pressures, regardless of what tire you buy. If you're not racing, the tire placard is the go-to chart for 99% of drivers.

2-After driving with recommended pressures and you're not happy, increase or decrease pressures approximately two or four psi on all for tires and see how your car handles. Experiment to your hearts content until you arrive at what feels right for you. If you're like most drivers, you'll come to some conclusion not very far from recommended pressures. Weather, temperature and road conditions (rain, ice, snow, wet leaves, gravel, etc) also affects how tires and pressures changes vehicle handling.

3-If you don't like standard tire recommendations from door placards recommending tire pressures then by all means research to your hearts content and go deep into the sciences to determine what's best for you and the tires you buy. Its always your choice.

Whether or not you choose to believe it, tire placards already take into account initial cold tire pressures, ambient temperature and individual tire load for the vehicle. Owner's manual go a little deeper to recommend a few psi higher for winter temps due to pressure drops from colder temps. No more than about two to four psi or one/two psi drop for every ten degrees F.
No matter how many times you say this, you're still dead wrong. You don't adjust pressure up or down because you're not happy or it doesn't feel right or it doesn't look right. If the same tire with the same pressure feels right for one person but not for someone else, then different pressures for each person are all correct? What utter and complete nonsense. Different people don't require different tire pressure according to their mood. Unless one weighs 600 lbs and the other 90 lbs.
Again, if the tires are not the same as oem, the door sticker DOES NOT APPLY. The sticker does not take into account tires other than oem.
Forget the sticker, forget the charts, the tire manufacture lawyers responses, the store salespeople. The only real way to tell if the pressure is correct is by the wear pattern, which indicates full and even contact with the pavement.
More wear at the edges = pressure is too low.
More wear in the center = pressure is too high.
Even wear across the tread means the pressure is correct. This is not my personal opinion, it is fact, and applies to everybody.
I just removed my summer tires and put on my winter tires. Before storing the summers, I measured the tread with a tire depth gauge. There was less than 1/2 mm difference from the middle to the edges. They are Cooper tires rated at 44 psi max. I run them at 40-42 front/38 rear. My snows are Blizzaks also rated at 44 psi max. I run them at 40-42/38, they also have even wear. They all ride fine.
A good starting point for Saturns is 90% of the rated maximum. The best pressure for the best wear and the best contact won't vary much from there. If your tires feel harsh at the higher psi, you have the wrong tires, not the wrong pressure.
CHECK THE WEAR.
...
Accuracy MATTERS!

Last edited by mbr; 11-27-2017 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:03 PM   #69
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Cee View Post
I was traveling on a Sunday and the only place open had a Kelly Edge tire in P185/65R15.
Any opinions?
Can't speak to that particular line, but I had set of Kelly tires on a Ford Taurus years ago, and I thought they were great tires. Good wearing, good traction.
If I weren't cheap, I'd feel OK with Kelly tires (in general).
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:58 PM   #70
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbr View Post
No matter how many times you say this, you're still dead wrong. You don't adjust pressure up or down because you're not happy or it doesn't feel right or it doesn't look right. If the same tire with the same pressure feels right for one person but not for someone else, then different pressures for each person are all correct? What utter and complete nonsense. Different people don't require different tire pressure according to their mood. Unless one weighs 600 lbs and the other 90 lbs.
Again, if the tires are not the same as oem, the door sticker DOES NOT APPLY. The sticker does not take into account tires other than oem.
Forget the sticker, forget the charts, the tire manufacture lawyers responses, the store salespeople. The only real way to tell if the pressure is correct is by the wear pattern, which indicates full and even contact with the pavement.
More wear at the edges = pressure is too low.
More wear in the center = pressure is too high.
Even wear across the tread means the pressure is correct. This is not my personal opinion, it is fact, and applies to everybody.
I just removed my summer tires and put on my winter tires. Before storing the summers, I measured the tread with a tire depth gauge. There was less than 1/2 mm difference from the middle to the edges. They are Cooper tires rated at 44 psi max. I run them at 40-42 front/38 rear. My snows are Blizzaks also rated at 44 psi max. I run them at 40-42/38, they also have even wear. They all ride fine.
A good starting point for Saturns is 90% of the rated maximum. The best pressure for the best wear and the best contact won't vary much from there. If your tires feel harsh at the higher psi, you have the wrong tires, not the wrong pressure.
CHECK THE WEAR.
The door tire placard applies despite your inane arguments. You've totally lost the general consensus to use the door tire placard as the starting point. I'm done and will not continue despite your ignorance of standardized tire pressures set by every vehicle manufacturer's door sticker.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:06 PM   #71
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The door tire placard applies despite your inane arguments. You've totally lost the general consensus to use the door tire placard as the starting point. I'm done and will not continue despite your ignorance of standardized tire pressures set by every vehicle manufacturer's door sticker.
BTW, the Earth is not flat. Really, no matter what you believe.
...
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:16 PM   #72
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
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BTW, the Earth is not flat. Really, no matter what you believe.
That explains the “crown” in the road at least. We’re getting somewhere!
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:33 PM   #73
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

The true believers will continue to genuflect to the gods of the Door Sticker. I suppose that includes the schlubs who inflated their tires to the Ford provided door sticker on their nice new SUV.

This is what happened and why. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firest...re_controversy
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:02 PM   #74
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

The first time I took my SC2 down a long, pot-holed, washboarded dirt road was when a twisted vehicle closed I-75. Exact make, model and mode of failure purposely not identified.
——————————————————————————
My new hobby is infrared photos of tires ! Beat that

38 psi cold
Photo of 5 minutes off the expressway (is too long)
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:17 PM   #75
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbr View Post
BTW, the Earth is not flat. Really, no matter what you believe.
Really?! I thought the Earth was round when I took a ride with my dad on the Coney Island parachute as a kid. Looked out over the ocean and saw the curve in the horizon........
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:19 PM   #76
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpdraft View Post
The first time I took my SC2 down a long, pot-holed, washboarded dirt road was when a twisted vehicle closed I-75. Exact make, model and mode of failure purposely not identified.
——————————————————————————
My new hobby is infrared photos of tires ! Beat that

38 psi cold
Photo of 5 minutes off the expressway (is too long)
I hate you. Never dawned on me to use flir camera on tires. Great way to check heat distribution. And your cost for this toy?
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:28 AM   #77
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Devil Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I hate you. Never dawned on me to use flir camera on tires. Great way to check heat distribution. And your cost for this toy?
It’s a FLIR One for iPhone $250. Handy little gadget.
One the screen, it overlays the infrared image over the visible light spectrum image. Swipe “up” or “down” to reveal the visible light image underneath.

Many uses! If it will help find one plumbing leak, it paid for itself.



^Note the hair dryer
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:00 PM   #78
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

Only $200.00 at Amazon.

This also works. Seek Thermal Compact Imager, lower cost.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:34 PM   #79
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Default Re: 31 psi FRONT, 28 psi REAR

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Only $200.00 at Amazon.

This also works. Seek Thermal Compact Imager, lower cost.
I think it was Field of View that made me choose one over the other. Horizontal FOV and Verticcal FOV.
Depends on what one plans to use the camera for. I talked myself into getting one to head off rotting floors in rental houses. Sometimes, furnace installers do not provide condensation drainage plumbing, but just let it drip down into the wall...and it is really expensive when runs under the flooring and takes out an entire hallway and two adjacent rooms. Happened twice ...and then there’s that slowly softening floor under the bathroom’s vinyl flooring that no one knows about How could they until now
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