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Old 04-17-2001, 09:01 AM   #1
Son93SL2
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Default Throttle Response

Hi all, I am a bit disappointed in the throttle response out of my SL2a. I am jam my foot to the floor and the thrust that i want is not there. A new top motor mount was installed recently, and that helped, but now it's back to normal. I have heard that puting silicone in the motor mounts helps. I do not believe that the bottom mounts have ever been replaced. What do the stiffer transaxle mounts help? Any ideas on what to do?
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Old 04-17-2001, 11:33 AM   #2
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OK just so you know I have NOT installed them myself. But from what I hear on the performance boards they are essential. They help with torque reaction the same way that the upper mount does. In other words they keep the powertrain from moving so easily thus giving a better "jump" when you blip the throttle.

It should be noted that neither these or the upper mount will help with throttle respose after the 1st 1/10th of a second. If you want better response after that point it's time to start doing more engine mods.

Abe.
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Old 04-17-2001, 01:05 PM   #3
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True. I have some mounts badly in need of replacement due to a curb which jumped out in fromt of me. My torque steer is horrid. I swear I can feel the engine jerk when I hit the gas. I must drive so much more conservatively now.
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Old 04-17-2001, 02:00 PM   #4
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I also had a torn upper motor mount. I purchased a new upper mount from the Saturn dealer (about $60 in Minneapolis, MN). On the way home, I picked up some 3M Windo-weld at the auto parts store. I injected all of the open spaces in the mount and waited about 4 days for the the urethane to cure. While I was waiting for the stuff to cure, I order the stiffer torque axis mounts (dog bones) from SPS. I swapped everything out on Friday night and everything went according to plan. The car is more responsive, but there is a bit more vibration in the cabin. I attribute this to the "solid" upper mount since the vibration is most noticable at idle when the dog bones have little to no forces acting on them. While I was in there, I installed the Nick Boers underdrive crank pulley and also swapped out my alternator (with underdrive pulley installed). The alternator was kind of a job. It didn't help that it was the last task on the list and it was 2 in the morning.

A couple notes in case anyone cares:
The upper motor mount was of a different design than what I removed from my 1995 SC2--the steel stamping was quite a bit more substantial and was ribbed for reinforcement (not for her pleasure--ha). The overmolded aluminum piece that is bolted to the front cover was a much more substantial chunk of aluminum. The overall mount was much more "heavy duty" looking.

Also, the dealer sold me 3 studs with the mount and I thought I wouldn't need them. So, of course, when I removed the 3 nuts on the front cover side of the mount, all 3 studs pulled out. The FSM had a procedure for replacing them so it was no big deal. They do have you run a M10 X 1.5 tap through the threads to clean out any old Loc-Tite; luckily, I had one in my tap and die set. Then Loc-Tite 242 (or equivalent) is applied to the middle threads and also on the threads in the front cover (using a Q-tip). Then, finally, the studs are torqued into the front cover. I don't know if this procedure is in the non-FSM manuals, but it seems like something that might be skimmed over in a Haynes or Chiltons.

The torque axis mounts were also of a different design. The ones I took out were an aluminum casting with a solid, but squishy, rubber insert. The SPS units, I believe, are a factory part that has had the elastomer cured longer to increase it's durometer. I don't know what year the design comes from, but they were a steel stamping with rubber inserts. Everything fit perfectly (as they should--they are OE designs).

I don't know how may people out there have purchased the Boers underdrive pulleys, but make note of your TDC mark on the crank pulley. Once you get the thing on there, the washer will cover the keyway slot and you'll have no reference anymore. I just scribed a mark before I bolted it on.

It is also worth noting that it took just short of 4 months for these pulleys to arrive. I sent him a cashier's check on January 18th and he verified that he received it a week later. After the first 2 months, I quit e-mailing him on the status. I figured he went off and joined the circus or something. To my surprise, they showed up (no instructions, of course) on April 6th. Cripes! I was kind of un-impressed with the finish as well. I run a machine shop here at work and was shocked to see poor surface finishing and tool chatter marks all over. If I could talk my lead machinist into a little O.T., I would dimension and draft some prints and have him whip up a set just to see how much better we could've done.

Here's another subtle one that could easily be overlooked. When I removed the crank pulley bolt (invest in a good air wrench and save yourself a lot of swearing), oil flew all over. The bolt/washer actually provide a sealing surface for the crankshaft. Sure enough, in the FSM, they instruct you to smear some silicone under the crank bolt washer such that you don't run the risk of leaking. It's then torqued to 159 ft.lb.

While I had the splash shields off, I replaced all the bulbs in my clear corners--I used 35 watt Hiper 1157's for the turn signals, and PIAA Superwhite 168 wedge bulbs for the side markers. I have Hiper 37.5 watt fog lamp bulbs and the Hella H4 conversion with PIAA Platinum Superwhite bulbs, so this really made everything nice and uniform. I also bought a set of LED brake light bulbs and LED turn signal bulbs--what an impulse buy that was. I haven't tried them out yet. Maybe next week.

Sorry for the long post, guys.

-Newt
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Old 04-19-2001, 08:27 AM   #5
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Newt, where did you get those LED lights?
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Old 04-19-2001, 08:32 AM   #6
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www.autotoys.com

It's a little overwhealming with all the stuff they have. You might have to look around for a while. They are in the "tail lights bulbs, turn signal bulbs, back up bulbs..." category.

Hope this helps,

-Newt
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Old 04-19-2001, 11:34 PM   #7
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Before anyone goes out and purchases the 1157 and 1156 LED bulbs for their Saturn, I wanted to let you know how it turned out tonight. The 1156 turn signal bulbs didn't work out so good. The resistance of the bulb is off which, in turn, makes the turn signal flasher go about 3 times as fast. Plus, the bulbs light up red behind the amber lens. I actually thought it looked pretty cool, but couldn't handle the spazmatic flashing. As far as the 1157 LED brake light bulbs--I'm still trying to figure out if I'll leave them in. They definitely rank high on the "cool factor", but they are about 1/3 as bright as the original 2057 dual filament bulbs when you hit the brakes. One saving grace is that the "cyclops" light is always very visible. Plus, having the red LED's behind the red lens really looked a deep shade of red instead of pink by comparison. Oh yeah, I blew it on the brake light bulbs--I only ordered 2. Each side of the car has 2 brake light bulbs (plus a turn signal bulb and a side marker). So, I did one side complete and left the other side stock for comparison. The coolest thing? Instant on--instant off. For that reason alone, I may have to leave them in and order another 2 for the other side. I think this link shows a decent picture of the 1157 LED bulb in case anyone is interested. But as far as the 1156, don't bother. Unless, of course, you wanted to figure out the difference in resistance between the 2 bulbs, and tie in a little resistive cicuit to make everthing equivalent to the stock 2056. If I get bored in the next few days, I might play around with it, but I don't want to spend ALL of my time in the shop.

http://store.autotoys.com/cgi-bin/wfp53024.storefront/3adfae7a01aa20a2274ed8f5a50606dd/Product/View/BULB&2050&2D4051&2D1

-Newt
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