SaturnFans.com
saturnfans.com - classifieds - forums - webmail


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > Vue General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2018, 11:13 AM   #1
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Question If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

So I am convinced my 2.2L 2004 5-speed (manual transmission) Saturn Vue's RPMs are too high (or higher than they were last year) when I am in 5th gear on the freeway/highway and I am wondering what the culprit of this could be?


What could be going bad/malfunctioning if you are sure that your RPMs are running too high at a higher speed/highest gear?


I need to fix this as I need this car for work as I am a "floater".


I can't afford to let this engine explode on me and with the RPMs going over 3000 at around a standard highway speed of 60-70, it is going over 3000 RPMs and it doesn't feel right.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 10-25-2018, 12:48 PM   #2
golftango
Senior Member
golftango will become famous soon enough
 
golftango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 1,701
 
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

It's normal, as discussed in your other thread for the same question.
...
2017 Sport SE 6MT in San Marino Red
2012 Pilot EX-L w/ NAV (family truckster)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/golftango
https://500px.com/golftango
https://www.instagram.com/golftango
golftango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 01:07 PM   #3
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Let's say it is normal.


What If I wanted it to be lower (for my own reasons) - is there/would there be a way that I could tweak it to be lower at higher MPH levels?
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 01:41 PM   #4
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,870
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Unless you have money to burn, there is nothing to change. Its gearing ratios. As is, specs are 143 hp@ 5,400 rpm, 152 lbs ft@ 4,000 rpm. The engine's best torque is between 2k-4k rpm. Fuel economy is higher at lowest rpm, lowest at high rpm. A 4 cyl moving a Vue thru a 5 speed manual would be considered a fuel economy vehicle while the V6 having more power everywhere as the bigger brother has less fuel economy as a trade off for more power.

Vehicles made with 6/7/8 speed autos and manuals are mated to high hp engines to have some semblance of fuel economy. My nephew's 6-speed manual Cadillac CTS-V has 455 hp, requires premium gas and gets around 19 mpg on the highway. Best may be 21 mpg when keeping rpm low. Very rarely does anyone drive 455 hp at low rpm. Fat tires and huge power lets it takeoff for stoplight racing. I have no use for excess hp so I drive it granny style. Compared to my 4-speed L300 auto, I can get almost 25 mpg@73 mph. My car did better in mpg against the caddi. But my engine only makes 180 hp......

The cheapest way to lower rpm at highway speed would be switching to larger diameter tires. This lowers rpm for the same speed.

Last edited by fdryer; 10-25-2018 at 01:48 PM.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 09:20 PM   #5
Beasleylou
Member
Beasleylou is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 65

2005 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Totally normal. Attached is dashcommand screencap taken awhile back on my 05 vue 2.2 5M.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1314.jpg (144.2 KB, 16 views)
Beasleylou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2018, 06:39 AM   #6
waiter21
Advanced Member
waiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 626

2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

If you wanted lower rpms in 5th gear while traveling at 7- mph, you will need to change the transmission. i.e. replace the manual with an auto.

As far as I know, there are no internal gear sets that you could change out inside the transmission.
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
waiter21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2018, 09:57 PM   #7
atikovi
Advanced Member
atikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really nice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Suburban Washington DC
Posts: 788
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
What could be going bad/malfunctioning if you are sure that your RPMs are running too high at a higher speed/highest gear?
Clutch slipping?
atikovi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 08:39 AM   #8
19boneatock88
Member
19boneatock88 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Glenville WV
Posts: 114

2004 ION-2 Sedan
2006 ION-2 Quad Coupe
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

The high RPMs in the freeway is not a malfunction, itís by GMís design... they used a 4.43 final drive ratio transmission in the Vue, whereas the Ion got a 3.84... you can swap the F23 trans from the Ion, itíll fit but that taller ratio is meant to maximize mileage in a small car that didnít need that much torque to get moving, and will make your Vue feel really sluggish...
...
Jerama- WV

2004 Saturn Ion-2 sedan
L61/F23(FY1 swap), 178K
Too many mods to list in sig...

ďStockĒ is nowhere in my vocabulary...
19boneatock88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 10:43 AM   #9
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

I really do appreciate the replies.


There is some "clutch chatter" - as it were. It happens some times, and only (usually) when starting moving from a stopped position, in first gear, and usually when the engine is cold, I believe.

It doesn't even happen every day, just once in a while.


This thread speaks to "clutch chatter": http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=200211


Okay, another thing I can't quite figure out is why my Chevy Cavalier 2004 manual/stick shift 2.2 liter GM engine idles at such lower RPMs when doing the exact same MPH on freeway?


I got it up to around 80MPH yesterday on the freeway and it was at least a half RPM lower than my VUE.


Is that just a matter of subtle differences in those two 2.2 liter GM engines (even though they are both 2004 GM cars)?


To be clear, this VUE seems to shift perfectly, and it is a one-owner car (until I acquired it a year ago with 163k on it) and it was just a fantastic vehicle all through the Winter last Winter.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 11:17 AM   #10
atikovi
Advanced Member
atikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really niceatikovi is just really nice
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Suburban Washington DC
Posts: 788
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
my Chevy Cavalier 2004 manual/stick shift 2.2 liter GM engine idles at such lower RPMs when doing the exact same MPH on freeway?
Why do you mean, idles, on the freeway. A car idles at a stop light, not when driving.
atikovi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 12:23 PM   #11
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atikovi View Post
Why do you mean, idles, on the freeway. A car idles at a stop light, not when driving.
Sorry. Bad wordword choice. "Cruises" I guess. I was doing 80 mph to compare and even at 80mph it's lower rpm than my Vue doing 70mph.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 12:45 PM   #12
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,870
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northerner View Post
I really do appreciate the replies....

Okay, another thing I can't quite figure out is why my Chevy Cavalier 2004 manual/stick shift 2.2 liter GM engine idles at such lower RPMs when doing the exact same MPH on freeway?

I got it up to around 80MPH yesterday on the freeway and it was at least a half RPM lower than my VUE.

Is that just a matter of subtle differences in those two 2.2 liter GM engines (even though they are both 2004 GM cars)?
The 2.2L 4 cyl engines are ecotec brands for use in GMs family of vehicles so power output is rated between 135-147 hp, torque between 145-152 ft lbs@4k rpm. The difference you're seeing on the tach, 500(?) rpm between your Cavalier and Vue is gearing, specifically final gear, the overall engine rpm to front wheel rpm. Cavaliers have 3.94:1 final gear ratios. Manual Vues have 4.41 final gear ratios. The difference in final gear ratios determines what rpm shows at speed. You're attempting to understand why the same two engines are turning different rpm at say 70 mph when its not the engine. The final drive gear ratios creates the difference in rpm between the two vehicles. The engines are the same, the xmission final gear ratios are different so the rpm of each vehicle will be different at the same speed. Two different 5-speed manuals.

Saturn Vue
Final Drive**1****2****3****4****5****R
4.41******3.58*2.02*1.35*0.98*0.81*3.31

Cavalier
Final Drive**1****2****3****4****5****R
3.94******3.58*2.02*1.35*0.98*0.69*3.31

In xmission discussions, the Cavalier has a higher/taller final gear. This equates to a lower rpm at speed compared to your Vue. The Vue has the lower/shorter final gear and turns higher rpm at speed compared to your Cavalier.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 05:23 PM   #13
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The 2.2L 4 cyl engines are ecotec brands for use in GMs family of vehicles so power output is rated between 135-147 hp, torque between 145-152 ft lbs@4k rpm. The difference you're seeing on the tach, 500(?) rpm between your Cavalier and Vue is gearing, specifically final gear, the overall engine rpm to front wheel rpm. Cavaliers have 3.94:1 final gear ratios. Manual Vues have 4.41 final gear ratios. The difference in final gear ratios determines what rpm shows at speed. You're attempting to understand why the same two engines are turning different rpm at say 70 mph when its not the engine. The final drive gear ratios creates the difference in rpm between the two vehicles. The engines are the same, the xmission final gear ratios are different so the rpm of each vehicle will be different at the same speed. Two different 5-speed manuals.

Saturn Vue
Final Drive**1****2****3****4****5****R
4.41******3.58*2.02*1.35*0.98*0.81*3.31

Cavalier
Final Drive**1****2****3****4****5****R
3.94******3.58*2.02*1.35*0.98*0.69*3.31

In xmission discussions, the Cavalier has a higher/taller final gear. This equates to a lower rpm at speed compared to your Vue. The Vue has the lower/shorter final gear and turns higher rpm at speed compared to your Cavalier.
Okay. I just feel like it's running higher than it was (or should be).


Maybe I am just being paranoid.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 06:22 PM   #14
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 43,870
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

You're not paranoid. Maybe a little obsessive compulsive. Final gear ratios are different for each vehicle and makes your Cavalier run a lower rpm at 70 than your Vue. Remember, your Cavalier weighs around 2,676 lbs. Your Vue around 3,207 lbs. At similar speeds, your Cavi should have better fuel mileage than your Vue by virtue of your Vue turning higher rpm. GM engineering takes into account many variables when determining gear ratios for all around best performance. We're not discussing stoplight racing or towing a yacht, both conducive to lower mpg. Compromises are everywhere and allows us to buy what we want as long as costs are reasonable. Fuel economy is one of the factors in gearing too. Even environmental concerns is a factor with CAFE standards governing how each model with EPA mileage values allows high hp engines to be gas guzzlers.
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 09:25 PM   #15
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
You're not paranoid. Maybe a little obsessive compulsive. Final gear ratios are different for each vehicle and makes your Cavalier run a lower rpm at 70 than your Vue. Remember, your Cavalier weighs around 2,676 lbs. Your Vue around 3,207 lbs. At similar speeds, your Cavi should have better fuel mileage than your Vue by virtue of your Vue turning higher rpm. GM engineering takes into account many variables when determining gear ratios for all around best performance. We're not discussing stoplight racing or towing a yacht, both conducive to lower mpg. Compromises are everywhere and allows us to buy what we want as long as costs are reasonable. Fuel economy is one of the factors in gearing too. Even environmental concerns is a factor with CAFE standards governing how each model with EPA mileage values allows high hp engines to be gas guzzlers.
Okay. I will be sure to update this thread though if the engine explodes.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2018, 07:38 AM   #16
waiter21
Advanced Member
waiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 626

2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Exploding engine.

The only issue I can think of that would degrade the longevity of your 2004 2.2 engine would be an older style timing chain tensioner. With a 2004, you'll have a newer style chain oiler but may still be operating with a version #2 tensioner rather than a version #3 (the best version).

The version 3 tensioner has a protruding nub on the end. Version 1 and 2 are flat on the end. (see attachment)

The symptom will be timing chain rattle on a cold startup. The solution is to replace the tensioner with a version #3 chain tensioner..

WARNING - DO NOT just swap out the tensioner. There is a procedure that needs to be followed when replacing the tensioner to eliminate the risk of timing chain jumping timing when the engine is started immediately after replacing the tensioner.

The basic procedure:

Remove valve cover
Use plastic zip ties and tie chain to cam gears
Carefully / slowly remove old tensioner not to drop components inside engine.
Install new tensioner
release the tensioner tension
remove zip ties
verify tension on chain
replace valve cover

TENSIONER PHOTO

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/att...2&d=1461323018
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.

Last edited by waiter21; 10-28-2018 at 07:47 AM.
waiter21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2018, 06:36 PM   #17
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

When the rim/wheel was just barely hanging on, with only a few lug nuts barely on, was there any potential damage to any sort of sensor in the front wheel assembly that monitors RPM?

Because now there is a sort of "squeak" or "rub" sound that I hear whenever the wheels turn.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2018, 06:55 AM   #18
waiter21
Advanced Member
waiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to allwaiter21 is a name known to all
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 626

2003 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Because now there is a sort of "squeak" or "rub" sound that I hear whenever the wheels turn.
On my 2003 there is a small shield near the bottom of the hub assembly that protects the anti lock brake sensor. This shield (about the size of your thumb) seem to bend easily then rubs against the brake disk.
...
2003 Vue - 2.2L with Manual Trans. (Swapped)
Originally had 2.2L and Auto trans.
waiter21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2018, 03:04 PM   #19
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The 2.2L 4 cyl engines are ecotec brands for use in GMs family of vehicles so power output is rated between 135-147 hp, torque between 145-152 ft lbs@4k rpm. The difference you're seeing on the tach, 500(?) rpm between your Cavalier and Vue is gearing, specifically final gear, the overall engine rpm to front wheel rpm. Cavaliers have 3.94:1 final gear ratios. Manual Vues have 4.41 final gear ratios. The difference in final gear ratios determines what rpm shows at speed. You're attempting to understand why the same two engines are turning different rpm at say 70 mph when its not the engine. The final drive gear ratios creates the difference in rpm between the two vehicles. The engines are the same, the xmission final gear ratios are different so the rpm of each vehicle will be different at the same speed. Two different 5-speed manuals.

Saturn Vue
Final Drive**1****2****3****4****5****R
4.41******3.58*2.02*1.35*0.98*0.81*3.31

Cavalier
Final Drive**1****2****3****4****5****R
3.94******3.58*2.02*1.35*0.98*0.69*3.31

In xmission discussions, the Cavalier has a higher/taller final gear. This equates to a lower rpm at speed compared to your Vue. The Vue has the lower/shorter final gear and turns higher rpm at speed compared to your Cavalier.
So just to clarify. When I was cruising at about 77mph today, my rpms were about 3,500.


Is that okay?


I'm sorry but it just seems like the engine is laboring at anything over 65mph.
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2018, 03:12 PM   #20
Northerner
Member
Northerner is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 72

2004 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: If your RPM are too high, what should you do?

What about the Torque Converter?


If that is bad/going bad, could that be causing the RPM to be higher?
Northerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Outlook XR - PO 496 DTC - Evaporator Emission High System High Purge Flow Brian Mabee Outlook General 1 07-12-2014 01:17 PM
solved high idle, now high temp/no heat gdf_sl1 S-Series General 7 10-10-2012 12:26 PM
Very High Pitch Noise only at high speed, and doesn't depend on engine load StandsOnToes S-Series Tech 2 01-06-2010 07:00 PM
High Idle AND now High RPMs 1995 SC2 randibou S-Series Tech 3 03-20-2009 05:52 PM
SKY Tire Prices, How high is too high??? dmbdlatc Sky General 8 03-18-2006 09:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:59 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.