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Old 09-26-2008, 11:30 AM   #1
bigbfarm
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1996 SL2
1997 SW2
Default Another starter headache

96 sl2 223k 5sp dohc

About 2 months ago I had typ. starter problems. Starter would click but no start. After car cooled then car would start. So I replaced starter and topped off battery water and problem solved. Two days ago when starting all I got was a click and my clock reset, popped hood and found battery acid had chewed through my positive cable. I'm thinking maybe I put too much water in battery, 3 yr old battey. Now here is the problem. Local carquest did not have correct battery cable, I installed a negative cable which should be ok but for the wire that goes to the fuse box. New wire had a smaller gage then original but seemed to function ok. However after about 5-6 starts it left me stuck in town with a trunk of grocerys. No click, just the sound of the fuel pump. Radio,headlights all worked. I figure there is no power to the starter. I push started car and is now up on ramps cooling. My question is what did I do wrong. My plan is to check voltage at battery and at starter and to clean ground wire (I've never had it off so its time). There is also a good chance I misrouted positive cable to starter and it burned. I'll know more once I climb under and take a look. If anyone has any tips I would appreciate it. #1 tip would be to get the correct wire from saturnparts.com, but is it possible I cooked off any components? I did check fuses and they were ok. Thanks bigbfarm

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Old 09-26-2008, 11:34 AM   #2
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Another starter headache

The little wire is way too small. You need the proper cable. Even one from a J/Y will be an improvement. Order one from here:http://www.trademotion.com/splash/in...?siteid=214643

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Old 09-26-2008, 11:42 AM   #3
bigbfarm
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Default Re: Another starter headache

Thanks. I'm shocked at the price $71, I may have to go junk yard.

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Old 09-26-2008, 11:49 AM   #4
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Another starter headache

I would be on my way to the pick-n-pull and look for as good one. Clean ends and no bulges in the jacket. The actual terminals can be cleaned but pass on one where the battery end is cruddy.

On another note. Do not add water to a discharged battery, charge first. the battery makes water when it charges. You know that now.

Also, that battery that overflowed is ready for replacement. It will leave you walking sooner or later, probably sooner. Now has weak electrolyte.

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Old 09-26-2008, 01:57 PM   #5
bigbfarm
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Default Re: Another starter headache

I've done what I know how, voltage is at 12.6, ran a 2nd wire 10g to fuse pannel, cleaned both grounds. I thought grounds may contribute as they were corroded. I'm on my way to junk yard but on the phone they didn't have much hope, said they strip those for the copper as they come in. I still need to double check fuses, I can't help thinking I may have damaged something. the car was working and now its not. Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated. BigB

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Old 09-26-2008, 02:21 PM   #6
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Another starter headache

I doubt that you damaged anything that is connected to the UHJB. A pair of #10s in parallel will be adequate to power the car. the problem is with the positive cable from the battery to the starter. It is probably corroded internally. This is how to check: connect the voltmeter to the positive battery bolt that holds the cable on and the other end (black) to the stud on the starter. Watch the meter and crank the car. You should not see any appreciable voltage drop, should read under 1/2 volt. If you read 12V or so the cable is NO GOOD or thee is a seriously compromised connection. You can also measure the voltage at the starter stud to ground and that should read battery voltage without cranking the car. When you turn the key it should click even if the main battery cable is bad. If you turn the key and the dash lights go out and no click then the connection at the battery is where the problem is.

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Old 09-26-2008, 07:00 PM   #7
Dr B
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Default Re: Another starter headache

Since the starter has no responce ,and the fuel pump ect. are working ,are the headlamps burning brightly ?You say you have 12.6 volts ect.
It could be the clutch safety switch ,or the starter may have gone bad .

...
Have A Great Day , it is YOUR choice !

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Old 09-26-2008, 07:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Another starter headache

I retooled my starter cable, purchased a side post terminal and remounted old fuse panel wire with new cable. Still no start, tommorow I'm thinking of applying voltage to purple wire on starter to see if starter will work. I would like to try Oldnucs advice but with my meter I would need several people to help. Until tommorow I'l revisit some old post, I'm sure answer is here. Has anyone sucessfuly modified ground wire for positive cable? Oh, I've jumped safty switch on clutch with no results. I understand one of the two wires on safty switch leads directly to starter purple wire, correct? Thanks, BigB

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Old 09-27-2008, 09:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: Another starter headache

ok, I put a remote starter on small terminal on starter (purple wire) and on the + battery. With ignition key on all I got was a whine from starter solenoid, starter did not turn over engine. Does this mean my new starter is cooked? Thanks for your help.

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Old 09-27-2008, 10:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Another starter headache

the solenoid only "clicks". Did you hear a click and a whine, like a motor turning over slowly or trying to turn, an anguished hum? The solenoid , when it closes energizes a coil that is grounded through the starter motor and the motor its self will try to turn through this coil. Without actually hearing it I can not be sure but that sounds like what has happened from your description.

If you hear the solenoid close when you push the remote starter but the motor does not crank it points to a bad power contact in the starter solenoid or, the battery positive cable. I am thinking that you connected the other end of your remote starter to the battery positive bolt. And if that is the case there are only 2 things left here, the positive battery cable or the power terminal inside the solenoid.

If you happened to over tighten the power stud nut you could have displaced the internal connection/contact. It does not require a lot of torque.

If you connect your remote starter button between the purple stud and the main power stud on the starter solenoid an push the button and the solenoid closes and it does not crank you have some power at the starter. Turn on the head lights and try it again. If the lights go dim or out then its the cable.

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Old 09-27-2008, 02:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: Another starter headache

With remote starter hooked up to purple post and either Battery + or main post on starter I get a continuous anguished hum or whine, as if somethings being turned at a high rate with little resistence. When I try key I get nothing but fuel pump noise. I measured volt. at purple post and got nothing with key turned on. Also when I had remote starter hooked up headlights dimmed very slightly.

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Old 09-27-2008, 02:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Another starter headache

You may be listening to the starter running from a broken one-way bearing, once called the Bendix gear, that means replacing the starter again. Attaching a remote starter between the small and large starter solenoid terminals shouldn't do anything until the switch is closed - to enable the starter. Its the same way if you measured voltage at the small terminal where the START wire (purple) is attached; no voltage there until the ignition key is turned to the START position.

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Old 09-27-2008, 04:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Another starter headache

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbfarm View Post
With remote starter hooked up to purple post and either Battery + or main post on starter I get a continuous anguished hum or whine, as if somethings being turned at a high rate with little resistence. When I try key I get nothing but fuel pump noise. I measured volt. at purple post and got nothing with key turned on. Also when I had remote starter hooked up headlights dimmed very slightly.
I would pull the starter. The solenoid is not closing the power contact. What you are hearing, and after you pull it out you will also see it, is that the motor spins very slowly. Out of the car it may turn reasonably well. You are running the motor through the solenoid holding winding.

For whatever reason you are not making connection from the battery stud to the starter motor.

No power at purple wire could be because there was not a foot on the clutch or several other possible causes.

If the starter came from a parts house it should have a warranty.

Over tightening the battery stud nut can cause this problem. It does not require a great deal of torque. If there is no warranty then take the solenoid apart and fix what ever is out of alignment inside there. Its not that complex. You need torx drivers to get it apart.

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Old 09-28-2008, 10:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Another starter headache

With remote starter hooked up to purple post and either Battery + or main post on starter I get a continuous anguished hum or whine, as if somethings being turned at a high rate with little resistence. When I try key I get nothing but fuel pump noise. I measured volt. at purple post and got nothing with key turned on. Also when I had remote starter hooked up headlights dimmed very slightly.

That is wrong, I had remote starter hooked up to large post that runs starter!. So heres where I'm at, I've verified power to purple wire. Battery cables are good. No action whatever when power applied to solenoid thru purple post. I've pulled starter and try to return under warrenty tommorow or take $30 starter from junk yard.
I'm not sure how but I think problem had to be using a 10g wire to fuse box instead of 6g. I don't know much about the solenoid if this put a strain on it? Thanks.

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Old 09-28-2008, 10:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: Another starter headache

No, the wire you used should have pulled in the solenoid. You have that problem solved now anyway. Those solenoids are sensitive to being overtightened or under tightened. The purple wire is OK tight with a nut driver and a gentle twist. The battery stud has the battery and alternator wire on it and that one is OK with a light pull on an open end. Use a gentle scrub with a scotch brite pad on all of the terminal lugs before attaching them.

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