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Old 09-30-2003, 01:04 PM   #1
jeffb
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Default OBDII and CAN bus

Does anybody know why the Ion was introduced using the CAN bus for its ODBII connection, and if this will be the new standard for Saturn or GM?

This makes a significant difference when planning which test equipment to buy since many testers require extra options to deal with a different bus.

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Old 09-30-2003, 01:52 PM   #2
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CAN is the industry standard for the future.

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Old 09-30-2003, 02:07 PM   #3
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Agreed, CAN looks like it could become the standard, but how quickly do you expect Ford and GM to implement it on all their products?

For example, the re-engined Vue for 2004 - does it use CAN, or is it still the same as the first two model years of the Vue?

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Old 09-30-2003, 09:19 PM   #4
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The ION does not actually use CAN. It uses GM LAN which differs fron CAN in data transfer protocol and diagnostic proceedures. The GM LAN in the ION is used to communicate with the TCM and ECM modules. Because of this a "CANdi" module is needed for scan tool communication to the TCM and ECM.

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Old 10-01-2003, 12:46 AM   #5
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GMLAN/CAN is going to be what all GM vehicles are going to be using eventually, and it's apparently going to be the new industry standard for vehicle inter-module communication. The Cadillac CTS is another that uses it, as well as the '04 Chevy Malibu.

The Ion only uses GMLAN for the link between the ECM and the TCM. The ECM acts as a gateway to the Class 2 bus which all the other modules are connected to.

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Old 10-01-2003, 05:45 PM   #6
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So does that mean that the diagnostic port under the dash will change and your run-of-the-mill OBD-II scan tool is now obsolete?

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Old 10-01-2003, 07:42 PM   #7
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Thanks to SCDYNE, ssicarman and robh456 for the insights into the way the bus is changing and for the "magic words" that Google could use to lead me places that made my head spin!

I have an AutoTap Model AT1 scan tool (SAE J1850 VPW), and it worked well on my 1999 SW2 and also a friends Z28, but it will not work on my 2003 Vue.

Does the 2003 Vue use a different protocol than the older SW2?

What does the 2004 V6 Vue use?

I'm with AxeMan, and getting concerned about obsolesence!

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Old 10-01-2003, 11:34 PM   #8
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The diagnostic port remains the same, but the CAN or GMLAN bus is connected to different contacts in the connector. On vehicles like the Ion and Vue where some modules like the ECM, TCM and (on the Vue) EBCM are connected to the CAN bus, your scan tool will have to be CAN-compatible to be able to communicate with those modules.

Apparently, CAN will become the required OBD-II communications protocol for all cars sold in the US by model year 2008.

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Old 10-02-2003, 08:04 AM   #9
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I'm up the same river as you, Jeff. I have an OTC Enhanced Monitor that I bought new in '98 and discovered the first time I tried to connect to my VUE that I was obsolete. It's not like I can't use the scanner for anything else -just not for the Saturn. I'm just not motivated to invest another $1,800 for a new scanner any time soon. Maybe in a year or two once the standards stabilize, just not right now.

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Old 10-02-2003, 09:59 AM   #10
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[rant]
This is all a huge gyp. Things were "supposed" to be standard in 1996. Ford went with one protocol; GM another; Japan, Europe, DaimlerChrysler a third. All the BS (you can't get that european model/engine in the states b/c it won't work with obdii) was supposed to be tempered by finally having ease of reparability.

Personal computers are way more backwards compatible. ATA/IDE drives from 20 years ago still plug into todays motherboards. USB 2.0 works with 1.0. Low density CDs play in high density DVD players. Nobody is looking out for the hobbyist or corner garage. I expected when OBDII came out (actually 7 years later when I got my first car with it) that I could actually buy a scan tool that would apply to all my vehicles (I change cars every 3 years or so). I guess in 2018 when my 2007 is replaced with a 2010 I'll have to start over.

[/rant]

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