Engine head replacement 07 ion 2.2

[that1man]

Anyone know if this head will need lots of parts to complete or will come pretty much ready to install, just need ming the rod pieces on top. I think I'd rather get a new head "with valves" than take it to a shop where some guy told me it's $80 just to look at it. It'll probably cost more than the cost of this new head for them to repair/shave it. Would you guy go the same route? Is the cost of a new head with valves gonna add up after other parts I may need?

Thanks

[that1man]

EDIT: I forgot to paste the link..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-2L-L61-OE...-127632-2357-0

Also, I forgot to mention that I was looking to get a head gasket kit that comes with new bolts. Is that all I will need for this job?

[rjc862003]

depends on the seller but usually they only come with valves if anything
I would replace everything in the top end that you can do lifters, vvt actuators if its got it
its simply not worth shade treeing it only to have it fail again in 30k

also the one you posted does not have EGR if you need it you need a different head

your post history tells me you are in over your head I sucks I know but best just write the check and get it done right done incorrectly will immediately double your costs

it really sounds like your 07 has had a hard life with little to no maintenance
change the O I L (THIS this matters a ton on these cars dirty oil is death for timing chains)

and don't thrash on them and the motor should have made it to at least 150-160k before needing any attention

everybody I have talked to has seen these cars do well over 200k without major problems some even are reporting 300k or more

[that1man]

The car was fine and I knew the timing chain needed replaced. My mechanic even told me, I procrastinated. Literally the day I was going to have it and the water pump replaced the chain snapped while sitting idle I'm a walmart parking lot. I think It has about 140k or more on it, can't remember

This is the kit I was going to get. Does it seem right.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Head-Gasket...-127632-2357-0

And your right, in over my head. Which is why I have someone who knows a thing or 2 helping me.

Thanks!

EDIT: the seller said the head needs a kit and camshafts so hopefully that means it has everything else you mentioned. I'll ask to be sure.

Would you personally re build and clean the old head or just replace it along with parts?

[rjc862003]

idk whats the other side of the head look like ?
what do the pistons look like ?

depending on how deep the damage is it might just need a deck and hand cleanup of all the surfaces (head + piston)

and of course replace the valves And the guides if needed

it doesn't need to be perfect you just need to remove any deep scaring or galling and smooth out any and all hard edges in the combustion chamber and piston

hard edges and deep galling (greater then the depth of your finger nail) can create hotspots which lead to Pre detonation you wanna clean all of that up smooth out any edges or transitions around any damage clean up any major damage with carbide and then wet sand until smooth

just take it to any machine shop and have it decked have them put new valve seals and guides in it should be no more then 75 to 150 bucks out the door if it is find anouther shop

honestly its just a ecotec they are pretty much 500 bucks at any junk yard

if its too far gone I would just go that route pickup a junk yard motor do the timing set out of the car when its easy and drop it in

[that1man]

Here are a few images of the other side. I'm not sure about the pistons, forgot to take pictures while I was with the car

I have been looking at YT vids on how to clean cylinder heads and just engine heads in general. I'm thinking of trying to do it my self and just asking the guy who helped me remove it to help me reinstall it and for tips if I get stuck maybe. Is it a bad idea tobreuse the old guides? Or use break cleaner and whatever grit sandpaper? I see people in YouTube comments suggesting against using "abrasive" chemicals/materials. Also, I was thinking of submerging the head in water while cleaning. Is that OK?

When replacing valves, guides, etc. is there anything special that a shop would do that you would recommend letting them do instead of doing it myself? How would I tell if things NEED to be replaced? I took some pics, can you check em out and tell me if everything looks like it's in good condition? Uploaded a video as well in case it helps.

https://streamable.com/btlbfn

I called a engine head cleaner shop or machine shop and a guy wouldn't give me an estimate, instead he told me to bring the head to him and he charges $80 to look at it. Does that seem fair or common? Wonder if that 80 goes towards getting anything done. I told him it was a value issue from the timing chain snapping. He insisted I pay 80 and go from there. Kinda pushy.

I plan on getting some tools needed like a precision straight edge, scrapper degreaser, sand paper etc. and whatever replacement parts I need. Definitely a gasket kit. Question: is gasket kit and gasket set the same thing? Also, have you ever heard of one using a cordless belt sander for sanding the surface flat?

I saw this vid..

https://youtu.be/HyKN52HD6RU

He worked his way from 80 grit to 120 grit sandpaper as to not damage the surface. Would you say this "poor man's shaving method" approach is acceptable? I was gonna go off of what he did. Thoughts?

I've thought about buying a new head and purchasing any parts it doesn't come with that I need but since I already learned a thing or two I figured why not see if I can tackle this myself. Would make me proud. You saying replace the whole engine?? Does a new head come with the valves set how they're supposed to be or do they have to be adjusted or something? Sorry for all the questions all over the place. Just trying to get a clearer understanding before I decide

Thanks for your response so far and thanks in advance!

[rjc862003]

its possible todo it with the sand paper the glass method
but if you get it wrong at minimum you will have to take it back apart and back to the machine shop to get it done right
its hard todo and really only useful for cleaning up the sealing surfaces, the combustion chamber and valve area are not repairable with this method

and find anouther machine shop it should be 50 to 60 for a simple clean up and deck skim (assuming thats all you have done!)

180-250 bucks is what I would expect out the door for a complete valve job including Decking,hotanking New seats and guides and assembly might be tickling 325 bucks if you throw in a magnaflux

I would not reuse roller lifters they are cheap enough and can be enough of a headache when they fail to not bother reusing them


you need to know what the pistons look like if you see major impacts then you need to consider damage you can't see such as stress cracks in the piston or bent connecting rods

[that1man]

Gonna see if I can find a shop with a more clear estimate of the cost. If I wanted to take it to a shop just to have it hot tanked etc. How much should I remove? If I needed the valves seated or replaced, if needed, should I leave them in? I was gonna remove the lifters since you suggest I replace them.

Can you check out the screenshot ofbmy cart on Rock Auto and tell me if the total seems right? Also, there's a link to a vid of the pistons and under the hood.

https://streamable.com/y8ifde

If it cost what you said out the door then purchasing everything and doing it myself does seem worth it unless I really wanted to do it myself. Pretty sure I'll just take it somewhere and have it done because the total of the Rock Auto cart doesn't even include tax or the cost for tools I'll need smh

[that1man]

NOOOOOOOOOO! Please don't leave me hanging!

Ok well if I just purchase a new head with valves will it be pointless because how bad the block and pistons look? Maybe it looks so bad you decided to not answer any more. Indirectly answering by not answering? 😭

[rjc862003]

sorry this forum doesn't send email alerts apparently

bores look ok the pistons looks ok except for the two with the massive dings (clean those one up and see how bad it really is) (tape off the deck so you don't ding it and get after it with a soft(brass) wirebrush or air wirebrush remember aluminum GO EASY!!!!!!!!
I really can't tell if thats a ding or if thats a piece of metal if that chunk of metal is off the head forget about it saving that head


but going by the amount of oily carbon in the motor she was very tired when she let go
if you really wanna save the car I would be looking at junkyard motors its likely to be less of a headache

you really don't want to leave the engine open like that you will have rust in places that should not have rust and create more problems

wipe the bores down with clean oil and throw a bag or something over it

as for the parts list its a good start but I would be measuring stuff for fit and clearance

like I said its probly less work and most cost effective in the long run to just get a junk yard motor(do the timing set, watch a video on it its pretty easy with the motor out)

Is it salvageable .... probly the question is how much do you want to spend putting what looks like a very tired high mile engine back together

[rjc862003]

Originally Posted by rjc862003

sorry this forum doesn't send email alerts apparently

bores look ok the pistons looks ok except for the two with the massive dings (clean those one up and see how bad it really is) (tape off the deck so you don't ding it and get after it with a soft(brass) wirebrush or air wirebrush remember aluminum GO EASY!!!!!!!!
I really can't tell if thats a ding or if thats a piece of metal if that chunk of metal is off the head forget about it saving that head


but going by the amount of oily carbon in the motor she was very tired when she let go
if you really wanna save the car I would be looking at junkyard motors its likely to be less of a headache

you really don't want to leave the engine open like that you will have rust in places that should not have rust and create more problems

wipe the bores down with clean oil and throw a bag or something over it

as for the parts list its a good start but I would be measuring stuff for fit and clearance

like I said its probly less work and most cost effective in the long run to just get a junk yard motor(do the timing set, watch a video on it its pretty easy with the motor out)

Is it salvageable .... probly the question is how much do you want to spend putting what looks like a very tired high mile engine back together

brand new dressed engine for that 07 is 1500 bucks on ebay a junk yard motor might be 500 bucks depending on the yard
a new head if you can't save your is 300 ish

so with just the head you are already creeping up on junk yard motor price

*if you do end up changing the motor I strongly suggesting pulling the trans out with it and doing the servos in the tranny they are cheap but a massive headache when they burn out

[that1man]

@rjc862003

Sorry for the delayed response. Been moving between projects.

As for the engine block, i did have it covered the whole time with a tarp.

Question: I was trying to clean the cylinder head up myself and made pretty good progress, I think. Does every inch of it have to be clean or just make sure where the gaskets are going is clean and flat? I posted images of hard to reach/clean spots I was curious about. Don't wanna do any more than I have to. Probably have. I think I did pretty good getting a lot of the caked up dirt/oil out of the intake/exhaust areas and other holes. Can you tell me if it looks good enough to you or clean enough. I'm not done yet but it looks way better.

I pretty sure I should get the build-up out of the valve holes but it's been a challenge. I've went through multiple little wire brush drill attachments that work pretty good, brass, nylon and steel, where applicable.

Any suggestions on the easiest way to self clean the rest? Does all the brown area have to be clean?


Thanks

[goaliemo]

That engine is toast man.

You're seriously better off throwing a junk yard engine in it. Grab one. Throw a new timing kit on it. New plugs. Clean the injectors. Send it

[that1man]

Originally Posted by goaliemo

That engine is toast man.

You're seriously better off throwing a junk yard engine in it. Grab one. Throw a new timing kit on it. New plugs. Clean the injectors. Send it

Can't afford one tho right now. Only option for me at the moment is "try" and do it myself. Does it look to be that bad?

[fdryer]

I'm not an engine rebuilder nor profess expertise on it but open to learning the process from knowledge passed on by those willing to share it. Machinists are skilled people from trades not looked upon with respect unless one is aware of old school machinists before CNC (computerized numerical control) machines. One must be a trained machinist before learning to use cnc equipment. In a previous radio control hobby, I met and got to know a machinist operating a small business with his partner. He was old school and used lathes, milling machine and two cnc machines in their small shop. Consulting takes time. Time is money. A machinist that works in a small shop can't take time away from producing products if he has to talk to prospective customers. He has to stop what he's doing (no production) then go into his office to talk to a customer. Talk may take anywhere from 5-30 minutes then follow-up with more discussions if new work is taken on. This is time lost in production. Time is money in a small business. Cylinder heads requiring a minimum amount of machining means set-up time, a process to measure flatness, warping, damage to valve seats, valve stems, possible damage to the casting, stripped spark plug threads, hogged out passageways from diy repairs, etc. Guess the amount of time is used during set-up and initial examination/inspection? Guess whether or not a machine shop is set-up for engine work that may have to thoroughly clean a cylinder head before examining it for possible repairs? What if a machine ship doesn't work on engines like my friend running a shop to make thousands of bolts and other parts in the thousands? He's still capable of working on cylinder heads but must know beforehand what is expected of himself to address repairing/machining a cylinder head. That $80 may seem steep but you're paying for expertise an average person, doctor/lawyer/teacher/cop/crane operator knows nothing about. That person you spoke to may be the machinist that stopped work to talk to you over the phone. That's lost production time to talk to anyone not paying his bills.
I learned over the years my limits. If I knew what I know now when I was younger, I might have tried what you're doing but I didn't know the intricacies of lapping valve seats, replacing valve stems, having a press, micrometers, bore gauges, etc, to have as much knowledge as possible as a diyer to make a run at diy cylinder head repairs. You're attempting to perform work as a machinist without the education, training and experience. It can be done but it takes skill, luck, patience, money and time. To your advantage, there's the internet to learn what you don't know from the people having skills and experience willing to share their knowledge to help anyone jumping into the deep end of the pool.

The brown stains are nothing more than baked oil, turning it into a hard varnish coating. As long as it isn't coating bore holes then its just cosmetic and nothing to be concerned about. Cleaning may involve hot solvents and possibly a mild acid bath to remove all baked on oil, grease and sealers for a factory new look before repairs take place. Auto stores carry solvents that are made to dissolve baked on oil if you really want a like new look otherwise save your money and time to concentrate on rebuilding and repairs.

[that1man]

@fdryer, thanks for your response! You always have great input and advice.

I understand what you mean and I have someone who is more than qualified to take on this task that is pretty much guiding me through this. But, he also has other things he's gotta do so I bug him only when I have to. For simple questions, I look online in case it's that simple. If it wasn't for this guy I would have already paid the $1100 someone quoted me long ago (because I had it at the time) and been done with it. The guy helping me is the one who insisted against paying someone because it's a lot easier than most think. So, here I am

With that being said, I got the top of the block and piston/piston area clean pretty good. Wasn't as hard a task as I thought. Thought it would be much more of a pain then the head

Question.. I was trying to clean the exhaust manifold and the coating started to fade away so I stopped thinking it wasn't supposed to because of the color of the thing. Checked Google and if I'm understanding right, these NEED to be coated in a high temp paint for manifolds? Professionally?

Here are some pics of the top of the block after I cleaned it and also the "scratched" manifold. Do I have to recoat it back to its brass like color?

Thanks!

[that1man]

Forgot to mention the intake valve markings on the pistons, but I'm sure you guys noticed..

[fdryer]

Factory exhaust manifolds for daily drivers, or plain cars, are usually made of cast iron. Brass doesn't have iron so a magnet won't stick to it but will stick to iron. An easy way to test. If I'm not mistaken, even marine inboard engines use cast iron exhaust manifolds whether operating in fresh or salt water. Any coating on exhaust manifolds may be an aftermarket manifold because mass produced engines assembled on mass produced cars rarely have coatings on exhaust manifolds. The exceptions might be high end cars. High temperature paint rated for 1200°F may be what you're looking for. The paint cures when the engine runs. I'm not sure but I think the surfaces have to be clean of rust in order for high temperature paint to adhere and not flake off when baked on when engine exhaust heat cures it. Read paint instructions before buying it if you're recoating the manifold.

If you don't get this engine running as good as new after all your patient work with help from a friend to guide you, I might have to come out there with a bat to brain you. Your snapshots are showing cleanliness unlike most diy engine repairs and let's wannabes like me enjoy your work. This engine better run right. Most following this thread are counting on you to come thru smelling like a well used garage or basement - parfume de garage (or basement).

[that1man]

@fdryer

Thanks for the explanation and kind words. Didn't realize you'd replied, as I didn't get notified.

"Bat to brain you" you mean beat my brains out with a Bat? Hope not haha.

After getting the head all cleaned up along with the valves, we decided that it'll be cheaper to just buy a new head (found one on eBay, valves included) since all the intake valves were badly bent. They seat, somewhat, until you turn them then there is gaps that are really bad. Then when I spin them (using a valve lapper suction cup attached to a drill) they wobble, unlike the exhaust valves which seat decent (but leaked in leak test before hand) and don't wobble. I'll post images and a vid maybe to show you and you can tell me what you think.

The top surface of the head seems to be warped as well and I don't have the tools or the time to shave it. I also have to figure out if the hydraulic lifters are any good.

Speaking of hydraulic lifters, can you tell me if the one in the pic is supposed to be able to open up? Should it be opened or do I need to billed them or something? The guy helping me is used to hydraulic lifters and valves from airplane since he used to be a pilot. Hope they can be reused .Also, said he never seen valves bent as bad as mines.

Learn are some pics of an even cleaner head. SupeClean works really good against that baked on brown stuff we talked about, MAN! Will post pics of how the valves seat tomorrow

Thanks!

[fdryer]

Someone else can answer your question about the valve lifters.

If you had found and mentioned bent valves, I think everyone would have simply said the cylinder head is most likely toast because along with bent valves, valve stems may include bent/deformed valve guides that would double the repairs from valve replacement, lapping valves to seats and replacing all the valve guides. A good eye should see this and machinists will see it almost immediately. The next question is whether or not the crankshaft, connecting rods and crank/wrist pin bearings took a beating since they're involved in bending valves. Bending valves are usually caused by mechanical things out of time, crashing into each other resulting in catastrophic damage only a tear down will reveal.