Help me pass emissions. Please and Thank You

[js8386]

Hello SFF memebers!! This is my first post, but I have been lurking on here for a while, learning what I can and drawing from everyone's awesome knowledge. I recently purchased a used 1996 saturn SL1 manual. It currently has 177k miles on it and I went to have the emissions checked on it today and it FAILED.....This was a surprise to me, because the SES light was not on beforehand. Anyway after they ran the test I got the following codes

P0341, P1404, and P0340.

Like i said I have been lurking for a while, so I know these are problem codes for this vehicle. So this is what I have done so far to try and fix the issues.

1. Changed both the plugs and wires (copper plugs)
2. Taken off and cleaned and purged( start motor and rev a couple times with EGR valve off) the EGR valve.
3. After that was doen I reset the PCm by taking out the 10 amp fuse for a couple mins.

So after that was said and done I started the car back up and the service light(one with the hammer tool) stays on (I should have mentioned it was on before this as well) and the SES light is off. The SES light does not even come on during the light check with the car in the run position. So my question is what should I do next? Here are the cars symptoms,

1.Sometimes during idle, the RPM's will drop really low from 900-1000 down to 2-3 hundred then back up.
2. Under load, usually in 2nd gear the car seems to stay put on about 2000 rpms then all of a sudden the throttle response will come back and the car will pick up again, this also happens while cruising in 5th gear at around 70 mph sometimes.

So where should I go from here? Thanks again for any and all help and if you have any questions or need any more info feel free to ask.

Thank You,

JS8386

[bountyhunter]

Originally Posted by js8386

1.Sometimes during idle, the RPM's will drop really low from 900-1000 down to 2-3 hundred then back up.
2. Under load, usually in 2nd gear the car seems to stay put on about 2000 rpms then all of a sudden the throttle response will come back and the car will pick up again, this also happens while cruising in 5th gear at around 70 mph sometimes.

So where should I go from here?

I would run some of the strong fuel injector cleaner through the system.


I would then go a competent (honest) diagnostic shop to find out what's wrong


BTW: you'll get much better replies if you post the exact data from the failed emission tests.

[js8386]

Originally Posted by bountyhunter

I would run some of the strong fuel injector cleaner through the system.


I would then go a competent (honest) diagnostic shop to find out what's wrong


BTW: you'll get much better replies if you post the exact data from the failed emission tests.

Thanks for the reply. I will pick some fuel injector cleaner up and run it through tomorrow. By exact data what do you mean? this is that the sheet says:

"The Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) is broken or not functioning

The On-Board Diagnostic System of your vehicle indicates that there is a failure that could cause excess emissions

OBD Trouble CODES:
P0341 camshaft position sensor circuit range/performance
P1404
P0340 Camshaft position sensor circuit malfunction"

What else should I be putting up? I can take a picture if that would help. Thanks again for the help.

[BV22]

Sounds like the Wrench light is on to tell you that the SES light is burned out. The SES light should turn on when you turn the key to the run position and go off after the engine starts.

[fdryer]

Look closely where the SES indicator is located. Is this taped over with black tape or can it be a bulb removed/burned out? To have error codes without the SES light ON means the indicator is faulty, not the pcm that conducts the emissions self tests every time the engine is started, run, and car driven.

SES - service engine soon

The other light with a hammer(?) or wrench is the service wrench light. This is for errors not related to emissions errors. Bulbs burned out, broken switches, etc..

[js8386]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Look closely where the SES indicator is located. Is this taped over with black tape or can it be a bulb removed/burned out? To have error codes without the SES light ON means the indicator is faulty, not the pcm that conducts the emissions self tests every time the engine is started, run, and car driven.

SES - service engine soon

The other light with a hammer(?) or wrench is the service wrench light. This is for errors not related to emissions errors. Bulbs burned out, broken switches, etc..

No tape appears to be present. Now that I think about it, I have seen the SES light on before, it was on a few days right after I purchased the car, and then it went away. So maybe the bulb is burned out. Is this an easy fix? Thanks again everyone!!!

[fdryer]

Bulbs are accessed by removing the instrument panel.

[js8386]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Bulbs are accessed by removing the instrument panel.

Awesome thanks. I am sure I can find a how to on here. My next question is what if these symptoms persist? What would be my next course of action? Maybe the TPS is bad, hence the weird throttle response sometimes and the flat sports while accelerating?

[fdryer]

Was the original coolant sensor replaced with a brass one? Search for threads about it. Cleaned the throttle body?

[js8386]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Was the original coolant sensor replaced with a brass one? Search for threads about it. Cleaned the throttle body?

I have not replaced the coolant sensor no. I doubt the previous owner did either, so I will pick that up and replace it. I have yet to clean the T-body, added to my list for tomorrow. Seriously thank you all for the help, especially you fdryer!!!! This is one of the best forums I've ever been a part of, hands down.

[js8386]

So I was wrong/read the post incorrectly. Yes I have replaced the ECTS with the brass one. That was actually the first piece of maintenance I performed when I got the vehicle a couple of months ago. I have not removed and cleaned the throttle body yet, so that is my next step. Also after replacing the plugs and wires I feel that the car's idle fluctuates more now than before, but it could just be me, is that possible?

[fdryer]

1-Cold engine start up - 1200 rpm, gradually dropping back to 800-900 after 10-minutes of driving. If the temperature gauge needle hovers over the 1/4 mark, replace the thermostat.

2-Any high idle (1500+) after warm up that can be reset by shutting off the engine and restarting without touching throttle points to a worn throttle position sensor.

3-A dirty throttle body never cleaned can cause many issues. Simply clean it.

4-The same for the ignition system causing the two errors - remove and clean off corrosion.

[js8386]

So after new plugs and wires and cleaning the throttle body and I put in a new SES bulb (getting the old bulb out was a giant pain in the a**).....The new bulb works and the ses symbol comes on when I do the bulb test, however after the bulb test the light remains off. I reset my computer yesterday after I did the plugs and wires and it has been driving much better imo, so do you think it is fixed?

[fdryer]

Originally Posted by js8386

............... ...The new bulb works and the ses symbol comes on when I do the bulb test, after the bulb test the light remains off. I reset my computer yesterday after I did the plugs and wires and it has been driving much better imo, so do you think it is fixed?

Resetting errors manually forces restoring factory emissions parameters to zero - the emissions self tests require driving until these tests have passed before state inspection. The only way to know if your car is ready is to use a reader to check on the readiness monitors - these are the emissions self tests performed every time the engine is started, car driven. Readers will display something to indicate whether or not the readiness monitors have passed. Not ready simply means one part of emissions either hasn't completed testing or failed and will be indicated. At this point the car won't pass state emissions unless an allowance is made by the state of one or two failed monitors. Once a car is started/driven/shut off, most if not all readiness monitors should pass to allow state emission inspection. Some will drive for a few days or weeks, to pile on mileage before state inspection. Simply plugging in a reader will tell you if the emissions self tests have completed and displays all readiness monitors as 'passed'. State emissions inspection plugs into the same diagnostic port to see the same information.

If you had left the SES indicator/error alone to allow the OBD II system to reset itself, its likely the last error/flag that halted emissions self tests would have continued from where it was to complete the remaining tests. In this case the car would likely be ready for immediate inspection instead of driving for a few days.

[Vision]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Resetting errors manually forces restoring factory emissions parameters to zero - the emissions self tests require driving until these tests have passed before state inspection. The only way to know if your car is ready is to use a reader to check on the readiness monitors - these are the emissions self tests performed every time the engine is started, car driven. Readers will display something to indicate whether or not the readiness monitors have passed. Not ready simply means one part of emissions either hasn't completed testing or failed and will be indicated. At this point the car won't pass state emissions unless an allowance is made by the state of one or two failed monitors. Once a car is started/driven/shut off, most if not all readiness monitors should pass to allow state emission inspection. Some will drive for a few days or weeks, to pile on mileage before state inspection. Simply plugging in a reader will tell you if the emissions self tests have completed and displays all readiness monitors as 'passed'. State emissions inspection plugs into the same diagnostic port to see the same information.

If you had left the SES indicator/error alone to allow the OBD II system to reset itself, its likely the last error/flag that halted emissions self tests would have continued from where it was to complete the remaining tests. In this case the car would likely be ready for immediate inspection instead of driving for a few days.

Just to make sure I understand. Are you saying that if you're unsure if the computer has reset and is ready for inspection, you can go to say autozone and if the car is not ready you will get a "not ready" signal?

[fdryer]

In one word, yes. Most good readers will display something to tell you either the emissions are ready or not. You can also check with your state's motor vehicle department to determine if all monitors or some are needed to pass emissions inspection. Some states will allow three out of xx monitors to fail and still pass state emissions inspection.