2005 VUE Redline vs 2009 VUE Redline

[SHMOKE]

I was on my way to work in my wife's VUE and made my usual left, westbound on the main drag when a set of bright headlights came flying up from the rear. I knew it was an SUV of some sort and and was wondering what his problem was as he jumped on my ass then jumped to the right lane in an exaggeratedly abrupt manner to indicate my obtrusivesness in what was apparently HIS fast lane. Yeah I guess I cut him a little short. As he sped by on my right I could see that it was a new Redline VUE, complete with dual exhaust and still with the new car tags. A young male driver is barely visible at night through the window tint, maybe a passenger too. We rode along at 10+ over the limit for a few miles with neither one of us making a move.

Red light! He slides back behind me as I pull to a stop and I can tell that we're going to race so I pull my thick winter floor mat from under my gas pedal and get ready. He's inching up as the cross-street lights turn yellow then red. We go on green. I'm careful not to spin as is he and we're dead even through the intersection until I'm able to put the gas to the floor and (I really hate this to say this the VTEC kicks in and I pull ahead handily by a solid car length and we both slow down because there is - another red light!

Same thing except now he's a little pissed about the beating and inches forward toward the intersection, he is obviously power-braking and timing the light this time. I'm on red-alert now and I launch without spin just as he does and pull an easy car length to 60+ before he gives up and falls behind me to turn left into a neighborhood.

I laugh my ass off and breath a sigh of relief as I slide my thick rubber winter floor mat back under the gas pedal and smile all the way to work. I thought the new GM engines were slicker than that. Evidently not.

[burnout]

Is yours AWD or FWD? Furthermore, do you remember what his was?

[BobbyP]

Same results here. We were even until the VTEC kicked in.

If I would have used the "burnout shift technique" he would have really been smoked.

I drove both the AWD and the FWD 2008 V6 VUE XR's. The AWD did not feel like it handicapped the performance in anyway.

[docderek05]

YOU SHMOKED HIM!!...

Hey brother thanks for defending our reputation, (poly RL's) ..glad the "boys in blue" were taking care of other things during the Drags...!!

I think I am slowly going over to the darkside myself though..those new RLs are starting to grow on me..and my 2005 is over 105 k now..time for a timing belt change and valve adjustment..yikes..where's my wallet...?!! rattlely, but she still moves when you punch it.

check out GM01SC2 and his beautiful new ride. as I said..just when I thought I was Out!..they drag me back in...!! Doc

[GM01SC2]

Originally Posted by docderek05

YOU SHMOKED HIM!!...

Hey brother thanks for defending our reputation, (poly RL's) ..glad the "boys in blue" were taking care of other things during the Drags...!!

I think I am slowly going over to the darkside myself though..those new RLs are starting to grow on me..and my 2005 is over 105 k now..time for a timing belt change and valve adjustment..yikes..where's my wallet...?!! rattlely, but she still moves when you punch it.

check out GM01SC2 and his beautiful new ride. as I said..just when I thought I was Out!..they drag me back in...!! Doc

Hi you Guys...
An update on my end. My new RL continues to run beautifully and if a 2005 can pull a 2009 FWD RL hats off because the new RL pulls hard. I know the quarter mile nos. aren't spectacular but the sensation of the car...the growl of the exhaust and intake and the gearing of the 6 speed sure encourages spirted driving and hence my dismal city mileage. The exhaust note is perfect...not too loud but definitely there. The new V6 while maybe no Vtec is one hell of a strong and rev happy motor with gobs of useable torque.
The comparison between '05 and late model RL is timely for me because the unthinkable happened. I started a new job and somebody went hard into my passenger door. This wasn't a love tap but a good old fashion door wallop with malice. I am a car guy as many RL owners are and I park my car out a bit being careful of the company I keep but somebody must of got next to me who wanted a piece of my new RL and got one. Tried to go paintless through the window and the jackazz who hit me hit me right on the reinforcement brace so couldn't get his tool behind it. I decided to remove the door inner panel and he got behind the brace but couldn't message the dent out perfectly and so it will be there every time I look for it. She is no longer a virgin guys. Wouldn't have bent had the new RL had plastic panels so earlier RL owners enjoy them while they last which should be a good long time. My '01 SC2 looked almost new until a deer took it out a month ago and so I am still a fan of plastic panels and will miss them dearly as I have been painfully reminded.
Careful where you park...to new RL owners in particular...lots of jealous low lifes wanting to rain on our parade.
George

[BobbyP]

Originally Posted by GM01SC2

Hi you Guys...
An update on my end. My new RL continues to run beautifully and if a 2005 can pull a 2009 FWD RL hats off because the new RL pulls hard. I know the quarter mile nos. aren't spectacular but the sensation of the car...the growl of the exhaust and intake and the gearing of the 6 speed sure encourages spirted driving and hence my dismal city mileage. The exhaust note is perfect...not too loud but definitely there. The new V6 while maybe no Vtec is one hell of a strong and rev happy motor with gobs of useable torque.
The comparison between '05 and late model RL is timely for me because the unthinkable happened. I started a new job and somebody went hard into my passenger door. This wasn't a love tap but a good old fashion door wallop with malice. I am a car guy as many RL owners are and I park my car out a bit being careful of the company I keep but somebody must of got next to me who wanted a piece of my new RL and got one. Tried to go paintless through the window and the jackazz who hit me hit me right on the reinforcement brace so couldn't get his tool behind it. I decided to remove the door inner panel and he got behind the brace but couldn't message the dent out perfectly and so it will be there every time I look for it. She is no longer a virgin guys. Wouldn't have bent had the new RL had plastic panels so earlier RL owners enjoy them while they last which should be a good long time. My '01 SC2 looked almost new until a deer took it out a month ago and so I am still a fan of plastic panels and will miss them dearly as I have been painfully reminded.
Careful where you park...to new RL owners in particular...lots of jealous low lifes wanting to rain on our parade.
George

A shame you can't do an eye for an eye to the @#$% that damaged your door. There was a post years ago how they said re-skinning the door panels is relatively easy. I never tried this, but this would get your RL back to 100%.

I always park my Saturn's off to the side away from others whenever possible. The first ding kills you...

I made a small road trip yesterday. I attended a funeral service in Fairhope, Al. This was the longest trip I took in my VUE. We were going 70-75 mph with 4 adults, cargo area full, with the AC on. We averaged over 27 mpg. The RPM's always stayed below 2000 rpm's. This engine is really geared pretty low.

[GM01SC2]

Originally Posted by BobbyP

A shame you can't do an eye for an eye to the @#$% that damaged your door. There was a post years ago how they said re-skinning the door panels is relatively easy. I never tried this, but this would get your RL back to 100%.

I always park my Saturn's off to the side away from others whenever possible. The first ding kills you...

I made a small road trip yesterday. I attended a funeral service in Fairhope, Al. This was the longest trip I took in my VUE. We were going 70-75 mph with 4 adults, cargo area full, with the AC on. We averaged over 27 mpg. The RPM's always stayed below 2000 rpm's. This engine is really geared pretty low.

Thanks Bobby. People are capable of just about anything from unthinkable acts of kindness to the the most despicable needless acts as you know. BMW's are keyed in parking lots all over the country every day for pure jealousy and spite. The new RL is particularly vulnerable because of its large flat door panels...no side strip...no plastic and no foot rail. The large flat panels also make any dings more noticable. The paintless guy that worked on it is an old artisan but he couldn't bring it back to original. It looks better certainly than it is did but I know its there.
I worked the panel over with my Porter Cable and leveled the clearcoat a bit but the only way to fix it correctly would be bump and paint or reskin as you say and that would mean blending paint into the nearby front fender and rear fender. The paint on the car is very very good for a production car and the ruby red metallic is one of the nicest hues of red I have ever seen...understated and elegant. The guy who wacked it must of thought so as well and why he did what he did.
All the best in New Year...its still only a car but we are car guys.
George

[docderek05]

George,
I am very sorry that your beautiful Vue has been damaged by an idiot,
I am angry for you also, because my folks taught me to respect the belongings of others and my Dad was Car Guy too, therefore I learned to be cautious about someone else's brilliant finish in a parking lot. Sorry that some un-trained imbecile did you wrong. Wishing you, and the rest of the Forum the best for the coming Year... Happy New Year All, Doc Derek

[GM01SC2]

Originally Posted by docderek05

George,
I am very sorry that your beautiful Vue has been damaged by an idiot,
I am angry for you also, because my folks taught me to respect the belongings of others and my Dad was Car Guy too, therefore I learned to be cautious about someone else's brilliant finish in a parking lot. Sorry that some un-trained imbecile did you wrong. Wishing you, and the rest of the Forum the best for the coming Year... Happy New Year All, Doc Derek

Thanks Doc. All the best to you and fellow RL owners in the New Year.
George

[Wolfc70]

The old Honda Powered Vues will be faster. Why? Mainly weight; a 2004 Vue Redline AWD had 250 hp and weighed ~3600 lbs, a 2009 Redline AWDhas 257 hp and weighs ~4200 lbs, even with 7 more hp and an extra gear in the tranny, you can not easily overcome the extra weight. Both will be spanked by the Rav4 V6 AWD, 270 hp and a 3400 lbs curb weight. I am not knocking the new Vue, as it is a giant leap forward in refinement. I am just trying to find out where the weight came from. It also explains the dismal MPG ratings for the Vue v6, 16 city 23 HWY, vs the Rav4 V6 is 19 city and 27 Hwy. The much larger Outlook AWD gets the same EPA ratings as the Vue. Something just does not seem right.

[GM01SC2]

Originally Posted by Wolfc70

The old Honda Powered Vues will be faster. Why? Mainly weight; a 2004 Vue Redline AWD had 250 hp and weighed ~3600 lbs, a 2009 Redline AWDhas 257 hp and weighs ~4200 lbs, even with 7 more hp and an extra gear in the tranny, you can not easily overcome the extra weight. Both will be spanked by the Rav4 V6 AWD, 270 hp and a 3400 lbs curb weight. I am not knocking the new Vue, as it is a giant leap forward in refinement. I am just trying to find out where the weight came from. It also explains the dismal MPG ratings for the Vue v6, 16 city 23 HWY, vs the Rav4 V6 is 19 city and 27 Hwy. The much larger Outlook AWD gets the same EPA ratings as the Vue. Something just does not seem right.

What sometimes gets lost in these comparsions is the kind of car you end up driving for a couple of miles per gallon. Quite right...the knock on the new RL is weight. Yes it is 3-4 hundred pounds too heavy. Mine has everything but the kitchen sink however from remote start to sunroof to 6 CD changer to six air bags. With that ride comes a much smoother ride and better NVH compared to the RAV4 with has uninspired ride and handling. Also with that weight comes safety...conservation of momentum for the engineers here.
Is weight the enemy of performance and fuel economy? Yes...but with weight comes other aspects that aren't so bad and why a 7 series BMW rides better than a 5 series. To me the new RL kicks the RAV4's rear end for overall vehicle perforance and driving experience. Becareful about 2-3 mph diff which sometimes doesn't hold up in the real world either. My new Vue can get 24 mpg cruising at 80. As to the comparison between old and new Vue...for all intents it is a jump ball in performance. The new Vue maybe fractionally slower but the overall feel of the vehicle isn't. Yes weight is the culprit with the new RL and they could have done better but weight has an upside as well. Drive a RAV4 over broken sections of road and it will be clear.
George

[docderek05]

Firstly...Hello All,
Happy New Year...

I agree with George, with the weight difference does come some value engineered plushness. I am getting up there, and drag racing an SUV isn't really my thing, although, when I am feeling my age, it is fun to let it rip, and laugh that some young kid said.."whoa..did you see that grey-haired old sob!!!...what a goof!"...One can only pull that nonsense for so long, and then you look at the progress in your vehicles design and say..well..time to upgrade to keep the backside happy on my commute!! George has the right idea, fair economy, and a pleasant, but sporty ride. I have owned a Toyota truck in the past, and it was reliable, and economical, but it was indeed flimsy, in contruction, I mean I could span the doors total thickness between my thumb and index fingers easily, that always bothered me when driving it..because "outside" was pretty darn close to "inside" when I was driving 70 mph in the winter..in the wind too, which when I think back on it now, was pretty dumb!!. I enjoy my RL, and as I have said in the past..just please guys and gals..be careful out there. Doc

[Wolfc70]

Originally Posted by GM01SC2

What sometimes gets lost in these comparsions is the kind of car you end up driving for a couple of miles per gallon. Quite right...the knock on the new RL is weight. Yes it is 3-4 hundred pounds too heavy. Mine has everything but the kitchen sink however from remote start to sunroof to 6 CD changer to six air bags. With that ride comes a much smoother ride and better NVH compared to the RAV4 with has uninspired ride and handling. Also with that weight comes safety...conservation of momentum for the engineers here.
Is weight the enemy of performance and fuel economy? Yes...but with weight comes other aspects that aren't so bad and why a 7 series BMW rides better than a 5 series. To me the new RL kicks the RAV4's rear end for overall vehicle perforance and driving experience. Becareful about 2-3 mph diff which sometimes doesn't hold up in the real world either. My new Vue can get 24 mpg cruising at 80. As to the comparison between old and new Vue...for all intents it is a jump ball in performance. The new Vue maybe fractionally slower but the overall feel of the vehicle isn't. Yes weight is the culprit with the new RL and they could have done better but weight has an upside as well. Drive a RAV4 over broken sections of road and it will be clear.
George

I will disagree on the weight has benefits aspect. Increased weight increases wear on tires, brakes, suspension joints, and many other aspects. Higher weight also does not necessarily improve ride, suspension bushing design, geometry and shock valving and spring weights are more of what constitutes a nice ride. As for handling, weight is the absolute enemy, Newton's second law F=ma. While it may appear in daily driving to be more nimble, I personally was reminded that I was driving a 2 ton vehicle. Yes the ride is nice, but it never really seemed confident in more aggressive maneuvers.

I am starting to look at a more versatile vehicle than my l300, and have driven many of the mid size SUV's. I really like the styling and interior of the new Vue. In RL trim it even has decent ride control, unlike the XE that felt like a canoe full of water on stilts compared to say a Subaru Forrester XT. I guess as a car guy at heart, I never really understood the SUV, yes it is versatile, but even the newer ones I would never feel comfortable throwing one around like my L300 on back roads or even on ramps. The search continues...

[GM01SC2]

Originally Posted by Wolfc70

I will disagree on the weight has benefits aspect. Increased weight increases wear on tires, brakes, suspension joints, and many other aspects. Higher weight also does not necessarily improve ride, suspension bushing design, geometry and shock valving and spring weights are more of what constitutes a nice ride. As for handling, weight is the absolute enemy, Newton's second law F=ma. While it may appear in daily driving to be more nimble, I personally was reminded that I was driving a 2 ton vehicle. Yes the ride is nice, but it never really seemed confident in more aggressive maneuvers.

I am starting to look at a more versatile vehicle than my l300, and have driven many of the mid size SUV's. I really like the styling and interior of the new Vue. In RL trim it even has decent ride control, unlike the XE that felt like a canoe full of water on stilts compared to say a Subaru Forrester XT. I guess as a car guy at heart, I never really understood the SUV, yes it is versatile, but even the newer ones I would never feel comfortable throwing one around like my L300 on back roads or even on ramps. The search continues...

You can disagree if you wish but you are arguing with a guy who has worked in steering and suspension development in the auto industry. No matter what selection of parts and tuning, you will never achieve either the ride quality or NVH levels of a 7 series BMW which weighs 2 tons + with any vehicle that weighs closer to 1-1.5 tons. You are also wrong with respect to tire wear and suspension component wear provided each are scaled for the application. As to an enthusiast SUV...I disagree with you there as well. The new RL strikes a wonderful balance between ride and handling...close to perfect for me with strong acceleration, decent braking an a performance atitude. Many have reviewed it now and some testers suggest the ride is too soft but not for me. The balance is about perfect and the suspension engineers nailed it. It is hard to achieve handling and ride compliance with the higher CG of a mini SUV. I do not argue that the RL is a bit portly...it is. A better weight would be 3600 llbs or so. But many comparisons do not include the myriad of options the RL can have like mine does from glass sunroof to 8 way seat, 6 air bags, heated seats etc. I deliberated chose FWD versus AWD to keep the weight down and optimize fuel economy. For the money...and I have to preface there...the RL is about as good a value in a sporty mini SUV out there in my experience. The RAV4 and Element fall short and CRV doesn't have the ride or performance. It isn't perfect but a very good value. I got $7K off mine with GM discounts and GM card earnings and it was too good a vehicle to pass up. I typically prefer cars but if need to carry either people or cargo...I am a road cyclist and putting my high end road bike inside versus on the vehicle is the way to go.
If there is a flaw in the entire vehicle...the V6 driveline is superb...it is with respect to the driver seat. It is a horrific amalgam of ergonomics and driving position. The seat will come out of mine for higher density foam in the bottom cushion and extensions to the floor rails. The vehicle is impossible to drive with an upright rear seat back with decent leg extension for a tallish driver like myself. The shortcoming has to be kept in perspective as every vehicle has an achilles heel or two and this issue is resolvable.
Cheers,
George

[Wolfc70]

Originally Posted by GM01SC2

You can disagree if you wish but you are arguing with a guy who has worked in steering and suspension development in the auto industry. No matter what selection of parts and tuning, you will never achieve either the ride quality or NVH levels of a 7 series BMW which weighs 2 tons + with any vehicle that weighs closer to 1-1.5 tons. You are also wrong with respect to tire wear and suspension component wear provided each are scaled for the application. As to an enthusiast SUV...I disagree with you there as well. The new RL strikes a wonderful balance between ride and handling...close to perfect for me with strong acceleration, decent braking an a performance atitude. Many have reviewed it now and some testers suggest the ride is too soft but not for me. The balance is about perfect and the suspension engineers nailed it. It is hard to achieve handling and ride compliance with the higher CG of a mini SUV. I do not argue that the RL is a bit portly...it is. A better weight would be 3600 llbs or so. But many comparisons do not include the myriad of options the RL can have like mine does from glass sunroof to 8 way seat, 6 air bags, heated seats etc. I deliberated chose FWD versus AWD to keep the weight down and optimize fuel economy. For the money...and I have to preface there...the RL is about as good a value in a sporty mini SUV out there in my experience. The RAV4 and Element fall short and CRV doesn't have the ride or performance. It isn't perfect but a very good value. I got $7K off mine with GM discounts and GM card earnings and it was too good a vehicle to pass up. I typically prefer cars but if need to carry either people or cargo...I am a road cyclist and putting my high end road bike inside versus on the vehicle is the way to go.
If there is a flaw in the entire vehicle...the V6 driveline is superb...it is with respect to the driver seat. It is a horrific amalgam of ergonomics and driving position. The seat will come out of mine for higher density foam in the bottom cushion and extensions to the floor rails. The vehicle is impossible to drive with an upright rear seat back with decent leg extension for a tallish driver like myself. The shortcoming has to be kept in perspective as every vehicle has an achilles heel or two and this issue is resolvable.
Cheers,
George

I have never designed a suspension from scratch, though I have modified more than a few for track use. Take for example my 1998 Nissan Altima SE, with stock springs and shocks it had a fairly brittle ride with not much control on roll motions. After installing progressive rate springs and Ohlins shocks, I got rid of the choppiness and eliminated all unwanted vertical ride motions. Roll control was much better too, that car was a dream on a Solo II course.

The best thing that I liked about the new Vue was the interior. GM finally got rid of the guy who mandated all of the hard, grainy plastics that have been a GM sore point for decades.

I guess I have been disappointed in most SUV's, as they have lots of Utility, they are lacking on the Sport part. I have never owned a truck or SUV before and have failed, so far, to see the attraction. I need something that can two 3500lbs (trailer, track bike and parts) fairly regularly, and be my daily driver. I do not have room for two vehicles in my current living situation, so I need one that can do it all. And so far I just am not that impressed with SUV's, maybe I just need to give up on expecting one to handle like a car.

[GM01SC2]

Originally Posted by Wolfc70

I have never designed a suspension from scratch, though I have modified more than a few for track use. Take for example my 1998 Nissan Altima SE, with stock springs and shocks it had a fairly brittle ride with not much control on roll motions. After installing progressive rate springs and Ohlins shocks, I got rid of the choppiness and eliminated all unwanted vertical ride motions. Roll control was much better too, that car was a dream on a Solo II course.

The best thing that I liked about the new Vue was the interior. GM finally got rid of the guy who mandated all of the hard, grainy plastics that have been a GM sore point for decades.

I guess I have been disappointed in most SUV's, as they have lots of Utility, they are lacking on the Sport part. I have never owned a truck or SUV before and have failed, so far, to see the attraction. I need something that can two 3500lbs (trailer, track bike and parts) fairly regularly, and be my daily driver. I do not have room for two vehicles in my current living situation, so I need one that can do it all. And so far I just am not that impressed with SUV's, maybe I just need to give up on expecting one to handle like a car.

I think so Wolfe...perhaps lower your expectations a bit. Every vehicle out there is a tradeoff of some sort. The attraction to the SUV is practicality and it comes at a price to performance and fuel economy. The Redline Vue is excellent for the money. No it doesn't have nearly the performance of the BMW 330Ci that I just sold in acceleration, ride or handling and in particular seat comfort. It rides and handles well enough however and the practical benefit is tremendous and why so many own them. If you want to pony up you can look at a BMW X5 or Range Rover but get out your check book. Every major manufacturer has a high end performance ute. Having owned 50 cars and been involved in design my whole life, I can impart one interesting dynamic reflective of the human condition. We are highly adaptive creatures and quickly adjust to any new environment. That pertains to automobiles as well. I have all but forgotten my BMW 330Ci quite honestly now having the new RL Vue. The rumble of the exhaust and overall feel of the RL makes me want to drive it aggressively as much as my BMW even though the performance limit isn't as high which at the end of the day on the street isn't so bad. I like the way it looks, sounds and feels. The adaptive nature of drivers works in both directions. One quickly grows used to 400 hp as one does to 250 hp. The Vue is great for what it is and I believe the overall performance relative to utility for the price can't be beat and am satisfied with my purchase. Many agree and why crossovers are so popular today.
The other element of the vehicle is safety. The weight of the vehicle + six air bags is a much safer environment than any of the cars we mentioned.
Cheers,
George

[BobbyP]

Originally Posted by Wolfc70

GM finally got rid of the guy who mandated all of the hard, grainy plastics that have been a GM sore point for decades.

Chrysler hired him a few years ago... Ever seen an Avenger...

[FGCA_XRL]

So basically we've established that the performance aspect of the RL was replaced with a GT aspect in the new one? I suppose that shouldn't be surprising to anyone, seeing as it's an Opel.

[GTP]

Just some observations on the subject.

I have an 06 Vue AWD with an intake. Using the Burnout shifting technique...which I have mastered- the Honda VUE puts a big hurt on the new RL AWD or FWD. From a dig the AWD makes it not even close. Don't power brake the Honda AWD just let go of the brake and matt it-it REALLY gets out of the hole with a bit of front wheel spin and then it just goes...

If there was a way to tune the Honda engine VTEC engagement, timing and AF with bolt ons (which I am working on amonst other things-soon to be divulged here) plus a other mods it would be a heart breaker.

I did a couple runs against a V6 Rav4 and using the Burnout technique I was door handle to door handle from a slow roll (apprx 20) and actually pulled a touch to the cut out at 100mph. Once I am able to toss in the RL ECM and get a caselearn done it should allow another 20mph before the limiter and allow the 3rd gear VTEC alot of room to run.

[BigD_Redline]

I'm not sure what the other guy was doing, but my 08 RL (K&N Filter mod) smoked a BMW X3 the other day who was trying to cut me off.

Off the line, the acceleration isn't impressive, but once you dip deep into the throttle, you get a very nice boost.

Originally Posted by GTP

Just some observations on the subject.

I have an 06 Vue AWD with an intake. Using the Burnout shifting technique...which I have mastered- the Honda VUE puts a big hurt on the new RL AWD or FWD. From a dig the AWD makes it not even close. Don't power brake the Honda AWD just let go of the brake and matt it-it REALLY gets out of the hole with a bit of front wheel spin and then it just goes...

If there was a way to tune the Honda engine VTEC engagement, timing and AF with bolt ons (which I am working on amonst other things-soon to be divulged here) plus a other mods it would be a heart breaker.

I did a couple runs against a V6 Rav4 and using the Burnout technique I was door handle to door handle from a slow roll (apprx 20) and actually pulled a touch to the cut out at 100mph. Once I am able to toss in the RL ECM and get a caselearn done it should allow another 20mph before the limiter and allow the 3rd gear VTEC alot of room to run.