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Old 09-04-2006, 11:33 PM   #21
DeMAN
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by piney
Its resale will be dependent upon many factors, most at the control of GM:
  • How many teething problems they have
  • How many get dumped in rental fleets
  • How many incentives GM has to give away in the coming years
  • Their durability
  • Demand for them

Not too many Camri are in rental fleets and there are precius few deals on them.
I agree.

Saturn tries to use "no hassle" pricing to prop there resale values up and it worked on the S series for a long time. I dont know if that will be possible with model sharing. ie G6, Aura, and the next gen Malibu.

You also have to remember that the 2007 Toyota Camry CE 5-Spd MT starts out at about $18,270.

2007 Toyota Camry CE 5-Spd MT look just like the top 2007 Toyota Camry XLE V6 to the casual buyer. Most people are happy with a car that can get on the freeway and go. My boss wife actually has the 4 banger Camry and very happy with it. My has actually got a speedy ticket it within the first month of ownership.

Even though the Aura starts out at $19,945 with a V6 & more standard features, know one really knows about it just yet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gmhashope
The old Camry used to be just plain, now the new one is just plain ugly.
This is the nicest Camry to date and will continue to boost there sales. (>42k last month) GM and Saturn can only dream of any of there model selling that many w/o fleet sales or rentals.

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Old 09-06-2006, 12:11 AM   #22
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Durability and reliability I think will be what makes or breaks the car.

It's not really rocket science to see the correlation between Camry sales and Camry reputation for reliability and dependability. When people talk about toyotas, they don't mention performance or styling, they ALWAYS mention durability.

Not really sure what GM's marketing and research division is doing, but they're clearly missing some obvious connections between customer loyalty, word of mouth reputation, and reliability.

What is so hard about making a car that just won't break? GM should experiment with a no frilles car that is GUARANTEED to last 500,000 miles. Every part. Bulbs that don't burn out, tranmissions that don't break, engines that always start, suspension that stays tight etc. Screw looks and trim and features for the time being, just do some solid R&D and build the most dependable car you can possibly buy.

After you've succeeded with this, THEN start adding refinements and getting it up to par with European and Japanese design.

GM and Ford will be powerhouses once they start shedding their reputations for making unreliable cars.

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Old 09-06-2006, 12:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

I like the normal sized, lower profile headlights and tail lights on the new Camry. I'm glad to see them moving away from the bugeye look, finally!

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Old 09-06-2006, 01:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

My site provides in-depth price comparisons, even adjusting for feature differences. You can use it to find out how the Camry and Aura truly compare in this area.

http://www.truedelta.com/prices.php

Working on doing the same with reliability, but first I need the data. Hopefully I'll get a good number of Auras signed up quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsky
The difference in width (hip/shoulder room) is fairly noticeable. Probably has a lot to do with the design of the seats.
Every inch in this area is noticeable, because the relevant measurement is really the distance between your shoulder and the door/pillar. I think the difference is the thickness of the doors and amount of tumblehome. Seats cannot affect this spec.

Because they are somewhat narrow inside, the Epsilons all feel more like elongated compacts than true midsize cars. This isn't necessarily a negative; it could make them feel sportier.

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More useful reliability information -- first info on Aura and Outlook
Price comparisons, quick and thorough

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Old 09-06-2006, 01:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

I have to admit, while I like the Pontiac G6 GTP, I'd be a little concerned about reliability. The Camry might be tempting, given Toyota's reputation for reliability and the impressive numbers from the 3.5 liter V-6 (268 hp, 31 mpg highway). I don't mind the Camry's looks so much now that it has smaller lights.

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Old 09-07-2006, 10:35 AM   #26
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2
I have to admit, while I like the Pontiac G6 GTP, I'd be a little concerned about reliability. The Camry might be tempting, given Toyota's reputation for reliability and the impressive numbers from the 3.5 liter V-6 (268 hp, 31 mpg highway). I don't mind the Camry's looks so much now that it has smaller lights.
Reputation for reliability? Have you seen the number of recalls (and the total amount of recalled cars) that Toyota has had this year? And, did you know that they also illegally kept the fact that several thousand cars needed to be recalled a secret, simply to prop up their reliability numbers over the past 10 years or more? Oh, that's right, you said reputation. A reputation doesn't need facts, it just needs word of mouth...basically, all you need is good PR. The only way a Camry could tempt me is if it were free, with unlimited free gas for life, plus $50K in cash. Yes, it's that ugly and that utilitarian. No passion, no verve, no style unless you want to count applicances as stylish. The Camry is the perfect car for people who don't care about looks, if you had one in champagne - the color most often picked when a color can't be decided on - well then you've got the perfect snore-moble. Yeah, I hate Toyotas, sorry.

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Old 09-07-2006, 11:12 AM   #27
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
Reputation for reliability? Have you seen the number of recalls (and the total amount of recalled cars) that Toyota has had this year? And, did you know that they also illegally kept the fact that several thousand cars needed to be recalled a secret, simply to prop up their reliability numbers over the past 10 years or more? Oh, that's right, you said reputation. A reputation doesn't need facts, it just needs word of mouth...basically, all you need is good PR. The only way a Camry could tempt me is if it were free, with unlimited free gas for life, plus $50K in cash. Yes, it's that ugly and that utilitarian. No passion, no verve, no style unless you want to count applicances as stylish. The Camry is the perfect car for people who don't care about looks, if you had one in champagne - the color most often picked when a color can't be decided on - well then you've got the perfect snore-moble. Yeah, I hate Toyotas, sorry.
You have put into words what I have been trying to put into words for months.....Great comment

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Old 09-07-2006, 12:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
Yes, it's that ugly and that utilitarian. No passion, no verve, no style unless you want to count applicances as stylish. The Camry is the perfect car for people who don't care about looks, if you had one in champagne - the color most often picked when a color can't be decided on - well then you've got the perfect snore-moble. Yeah, I hate Toyotas, sorry.
Oh come on - if you put a Camry next to a Saturn Aura, do they really look that different? Both just look like ordinary midsize sedans.

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Old 09-07-2006, 12:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2
Oh come on - if you put a Camry next to a Saturn Aura, do they really look that different? Both just look like ordinary midsize sedans.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

LOL! Sorry, but both look pretty bland to me. The Aura looks like a glorified Dodge Stratus. I think the Pontiac G6 is sleeker than both the Aura and the Camry. (Although the G6 still has too much of the "bugeye" look with its large headlight assemblies.)

Last edited by VTHokie00SL2; 09-07-2006 at 01:42 PM..

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Old 09-07-2006, 02:20 PM   #31
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokie00SL2
LOL! Sorry, but both look pretty bland to me. The Aura looks like a glorified Dodge Stratus. I think the Pontiac G6 is sleeker than both the Aura and the Camry. (Although the G6 still has too much of the "bugeye" look with its large headlight assemblies.)
What mid-size car do you find to be not bland? The Camry is just odd-looking to me; flat-sided, bulbous face and butt, weird grille, squinty headlights. The Aura is more Euro-looking, which appeals to me. I am not trying to talk you into liking the car, that can't be done, just trying to say that the Camry and Aura are polar opposites as far as looks go.

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Old 09-07-2006, 02:31 PM   #32
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
What mid-size car do you find to be not bland?
I like the aggressive stance and rakish profile of the Pontiac G6. I like the Mazda 6 hatch. Believe it or not, bland as the L Series might have been, I just saw a Saturn L300 that I thought looked great. It was black, with alloy wheels, sunroof, spoiler, fog lamps...a very sporty Euro looking sedan. (It was a pre-2003, before Saturn gave the L Series that horrible new nose.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
The Camry is just odd-looking to me; flat-sided, bulbous face and butt, weird grille, squinty headlights.
That pretty much describes the Aura, except replace squinty headlights with oversized headlights.

Quote:
The Aura is more Euro-looking, which appeals to me. I am not trying to talk you into liking the car, that can't be done, just trying to say that the Camry and Aura are polar opposites as far as looks go.
They're a little different, but I don't really see them as polar opposites personally.

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Old 09-07-2006, 02:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Saturn69;

I see a lot of influence from the old Caprice School of Automotive Design in there.

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Old 09-07-2006, 02:45 PM   #34
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
Saturn69;

I see a lot of influence from the old Caprice School of Automotive Design in there.
In which one? The Camry? Wow. Now that you mention it, it does sorta resemble the Caprice.




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Old 09-07-2006, 03:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Reliability huh? As a former Toyota service consultant I can tell you the Toyota reliability is a myth.... does anyone remember the oil gelling issue? I will give them credit they did right by the customers on that issue. I even replaced one engine that had been driven 20,000 miles in 14 months without an oil change.. Toyota still picked up the bill on the repair. They acknoloweged the problem and took care of it. but everyone saying the Camry is a reliable car has never worked in a Toyota service department. For some reason customers give Toyota a pass on the small things that break and hammer GM for them. In the eyes of many Toyota can do no wrong... and GM does everything wrong.... The dealership I sell for now owns a Toyota store a Chevy store and of course a Saturn store.. I work for the Saturn store.... but I have driven the new Camry, as well as the Aura XR. When it comes to spending my money... I'll take the Aura...

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Old 09-07-2006, 03:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnSales
.... does anyone remember the oil gelling issue? I will give them credit they did right by the customers on that issue...
If i remember correctly, it took a lot of customer outcry and media attention before Toyota conceded to taking care of the problem... and even then, they tried to blame the customers and the oil in the engine rather than admit a design flaw. Isn't Toyota also facing problems in Japan for not reporting customer complaints to the government so they could avoid recalls?

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Old 09-07-2006, 04:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

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Originally Posted by Galileo
Isn't Toyota also facing problems in Japan for not reporting customer complaints to the government so they could avoid recalls?
Oh yes, the Police are even involved. Perhaps some heads will roll. I don't want to see Toyota die or go away....the lack of competition once before made GM lazy and it's taken/taking years to fix that....I just want to see them get knocked off their pedestal; for people to see them as they truly are, not this supposed "Messiah on wheels" car company.

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Old 09-07-2006, 04:38 PM   #38
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkaresh
My site provides in-depth price comparisons, even adjusting for feature differences. You can use it to find out how the Camry and Aura truly compare in this area.

Every inch in this area is noticeable, because the relevant measurement is really the distance between your shoulder and the door/pillar. I think the difference is the thickness of the doors and amount of tumblehome. Seats cannot affect this spec.

Because they are somewhat narrow inside, the Epsilons all feel more like elongated compacts than true midsize cars. This isn't necessarily a negative; it could make them feel sportier.
The stats on the Camry don't impress me. The stats on the Aura don't impress me. No, for me it's more primal, more, shall we say, shallow. If the car doesn't appeal to me aesthetically I could care less that it has a smidge more (unnoticeable, unusable) space in the back seat or 2 or 3 more hp or mpg. It has to get my attention first and the Camry doesn't do that. I won't even look at the Camry because I find that it looks dated and sterile...there's nothing to draw me in; not an interesting curve, a glint of chrome, the swoop of a fender. I hate to sound mean but it's like the unattractive girl/boy in High School that everyone said was a dear and loyal friend but no one would date because he/she was just....blah. Not so easy on the eyes, but dependable. Forgettable. Not for me. I want to have something unique, different from the Borg-like crowd that worships at the (unadorned)altar of Toyota. Even Honda's cars are visually more interesting to look at, Mazda, of course, tries to hard. So to me, regardless what the tale of the tape says or GM naysayers or Toyotaphiles....I would pick the Aura based solely on looks.

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Old 09-07-2006, 05:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn_69
No, for me it's more primal, more, shall we say, shallow. If the car doesn't appeal to me aesthetically I could care less that it has a smidge more (unnoticeable, unusable) space in the back seat or 2 or 3 more hp or mpg.
Which sedans do you think are really attractive? It's OK to say that you choose a car for exterior aesthetics but we need examples.

I like the exterior of the Aura and the interior of the Camry. I think the best looking exterior of all the mid size sedans is the new Sebring.

I would choose the car that had the most comfortable driving position and was the quietest on the highway.

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Old 09-07-2006, 05:31 PM   #40
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Default Re: Aura Vs Camry

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaturnSales
Reliability huh? As a former Toyota service consultant I can tell you the Toyota reliability is a myth....
I've known enough Toyota owners personally to know it's not a myth. The differences between Toyota reliability and others is overblown but Toyotas are very reliable vehicles.

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