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Old 01-10-2009, 02:23 AM   #81
Phaeton Driver
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by XR524 View Post
Hell yeah Id buy an Aura right now! The deals are getting better by the day! So wait... maybe Id wait another couple of months lol. More and more slightly used auras are appearing on lots. Ive yet to find someone whos gotten as good of a deal as i did.

Bought mine used 15,900 miles, 2007 XR, Fully loaded - all options, $16,900 out the door. Basically mint condition other than some tiny dings here and there on the interior
I don't think my deal was any worse than yours, you decide.
I got my XR with everything but XM radio in March 07. It had 5003 miles on it.
I have not had one thing wrong with the car except the sunroof inside cover rattle when open, no big deal.

I paid $21,300 for it and they gave me high book for my RAM 2500.
I was/am still very happy with the deal and the car.

But unless GM changes it's ways and stops building the same car with 3 or 4 brand names on it, thus competing with itself (many here has said they compared Saturn with Chevy) I would not buy another GM vehicle.

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Old 01-10-2009, 09:58 AM   #82
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by Phaeton Driver View Post
But unless GM changes it's ways and stops building the same car with 3 or 4 brand names on it, thus competing with itself (many here has said they compared Saturn with Chevy) I would not buy another GM vehicle.
Weird reason to not buy a car. "I won't buy a car from you because you make too many cars". Does it make the choice too difficult?
It's a bit similar to "I won't buy their car because they might go out of business"

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Old 01-10-2009, 10:15 AM   #83
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeton Driver View Post
I don't think my deal was any worse than yours, you decide.
I got my XR with everything but XM radio in March 07. It had 5003 miles on it.
I have not had one thing wrong with the car except the sunroof inside cover rattle when open, no big deal.

I paid $21,300 for it and they gave me high book for my RAM 2500.
I was/am still very happy with the deal and the car.

But unless GM changes it's ways and stops building the same car with 3 or 4 brand names on it, thus competing with itself (many here has said they compared Saturn with Chevy) I would not buy another GM vehicle.
I commented on this post many weeks ago and have changed my mind from my previous post of stating that I would not purchase another GM. The situation may not be so grave afterall. I love my Aura XR and, based on my current experience, will probably buy GM again (hopefully a real Opel).

I received what I believe is a STELLAR deal on my new XR. All option packages, leather seats, sunroof, power passenger seat w. driver adjustable foot pedals (the XR comes standard with XM radio) + the following acessories: all-season rubber floor mats, wind deflectors (will try to post some pics this weekend), mud guards and the Personal Audio Link (PAL). All in all, bottom-line price including tax and tags: $25,393.68. This reflects the total selling price without a trade or down payment taken into consideration (I hope no one regards this as braggadocio). I really like Saturn's no-haggle pricing. Whenever I've purchased new vehicles before, I've always wondered whether someone purchased the same I vehicle I just did or will purchase the identical vehicle tomorrow or next week for 2k less than I paid. THAT really doesn't sit well with me.

However, I fully agree with Phaeton Driver that GM needs to stop competing against itself with brands and models. That really reminds me of a line from the Movie "Dave" starring Kevin Kline. He's holding a cabinet meeting and he's wondering why the Commerce Dept. has a 40 million yearly budget for advertising "to help consumers feel better about a vehicle purchase they've already made?" I don't know whether such a program really exists but the ludicrousness of such a thing is...well...beyond the beyond. GM competes against itself because of...appealing to potential purchasers because of better / more familiar "brand identification"? What were all those current import buyers driving before they started buying Accord's, Camry's, Civic's, Corolla's et al? So much for "brand identification". I used to be one of 'em (still am, somewhat) but hopefully GM will continue with vehicles such as the Aura and Vue et al. GM: get real!

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Old 01-10-2009, 12:40 PM   #84
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Weird reason to not buy a car. "I won't buy a car from you because you make too many cars". Does it make the choice too difficult?
It's a bit similar to "I won't buy their car because they might go out of business"
I wouldn't say that I would not buy a car because the company might go out of business. In fact the opposite is more likely. Cars that were built by companies that no longer exist, are worth more today than when they were first sold, and in many cases, 100's of times more $$$
GM is in trouble and will stay in trouble if they don't change their ways. I would have thought the lesson learned when they dropped Oldsmobile would have helped them do more of the same, but it didn't.
Just proves that GM management has it's head stuck where the sun don't shine.
There is something inherently flawed in the Build Once Name Many Times sales philosophy used by many companies in the free world today. Life would be simpler if we didn't have to comparison shop for the same product with different brand names on it. I find myself doing it way too much these days just to try and save a few bucks on something I really need.
Opinions expressed here are my own and are copy written, Get Your Own Opinion. LOL

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Old 01-12-2009, 11:01 AM   #85
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Here is an interesting little list from Consumer reports. Percieved reliability Vs. Actual reliablility of cars..

Brand Perception Top 10
1. Toyota
2. Honda
3. Ford
4. Cadillac
5. Mercedes-Benz
6. GMC
7. Lexus
8. BMW
9. Chevrolet
10. Volvo

Brand Reliability Top 10
1. Scion
2. Acura
3. Honda
4. Toyota
5. Lexus
6. Infinity
7. Subaru
8. Hyundai
9. Mitsubishi
10. Kia


I don't see Ford, Crystler, or GM on the more imporant of those 2 lists.

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Old 01-12-2009, 11:12 AM   #86
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

It is a well-known fact that Consumer Reports has a high bias towards the foreign brands, Toyota and Honda in particular. Also, Consumer Reports data is 1-2 years out of date - just now including 2007 full year models. I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports, I have not for years because of this in particular. Also, keep in mind that you can back almost any claim with the right set of statistics. Everything is basically political in nature.

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Old 01-12-2009, 02:40 PM   #87
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Thumbs Down Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Another tidbit about Consumer Reports:

I used to be an avid reader and have a pile of annual editions. If you are check out the reviews fro the first Annual report years of ION, VUE, Relay, then check out the 2006/2007 Annual reviews. They are all almost exactly verbatim word for word. Then check out the date actually reviewed, WOW!

They only review the car on the first year of production, pick the Saturn apart, report only on it's flaws and carry on the same word for word year after year even though these issues were long ago fixed or even if there was major improvements to the vehicle.

Don't believe me, go check it out for yourselves. CR Annual Reports - 2002 to 2007, Saturn vehicles.

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Old 01-13-2009, 07:26 AM   #88
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by marx404 View Post
Another tidbit about Consumer Reports:

I used to be an avid reader and have a pile of annual editions. If you are check out the reviews fro the first Annual report years of ION, VUE, Relay, then check out the 2006/2007 Annual reviews. They are all almost exactly verbatim word for word. Then check out the date actually reviewed, WOW!

They only review the car on the first year of production, pick the Saturn apart, report only on it's flaws and carry on the same word for word year after year even though these issues were long ago fixed or even if there was major improvements to the vehicle.

Don't believe me, go check it out for yourselves. CR Annual Reports - 2002 to 2007, Saturn vehicles.
CR tested the ION in 2003 and 2005
VUE in 2002, 2004,2007 and 2008
Relay in 2005
Your claims are bogus

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Old 01-13-2009, 10:26 AM   #89
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

I did stop my subscription to CR after I followed their advice about wireless phones. they recommended a POS that you would not believe. It was obvious just holding it in your hands that it was subpar. after that, I've become convinced they get kickbacks from manufacturers.

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Old 01-13-2009, 03:04 PM   #90
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by AuraDrvr89 View Post
Exactly what I was getting at.
thats been my fathers opinion his whole life. you summed it up perfectly. BUT GM. just because theres a crisis, if youre not an employee you really dont have much to worry about. you buy a toyota here, youre supporting other countries.

Actually, you could simplify that even futher. "dont buy jap crap. support domestic car companies and they will take care of you"

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Old 01-13-2009, 09:38 PM   #91
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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CR tested the ION in 2003 and 2005
VUE in 2002, 2004,2007 and 2008
Relay in 2005
Your claims are bogus

You misinterpreted what I said. I am glad that you did look up the years and you are correct about the years. However, as I was saying, as you have that information, check out the actual reports themselves, give or take a sentence or two, the reports for the ION, Relay, etc are all the same thing year after year, with hardly or no acknowledgment to year model changes, even major ones.

I invite other readers to check it out for themselves, don't take my word for it. Verbatim year after year regardless of whenever they actually claimed to have tested the vehicle.

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Old 01-13-2009, 10:47 PM   #92
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marx404 View Post
You misinterpreted what I said. I am glad that you did look up the years and you are correct about the years. However, as I was saying, as you have that information, check out the actual reports themselves, give or take a sentence or two, the reports for the ION, Relay, etc are all the same thing year after year, with hardly or no acknowledgment to year model changes, even major ones.

I invite other readers to check it out for themselves, don't take my word for it. Verbatim year after year regardless of whenever they actually claimed to have tested the vehicle.
They only change the report when they retest a car. So for the ION the 2003 and 2004 reports were the same (2003 car) and the 2005-2007 reports were of the 2005 car.
They do retest cars when there's a major change like a new engine or transmission. In the 2005 ION report they point out that the 4 speed auto is smoother than the 5 speed in the 2003.

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Old 01-13-2009, 11:06 PM   #93
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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They only change the report when they retest a car. So for the ION the 2003 and 2004 reports were the same (2003 car) and the 2005-2007 reports were of the 2005 car.They do retest cars when there's a major change like a new engine or transmission. In the 2005 ION report they point out that the 4 speed auto is smoother than the 5 speed in the 2003.
I understand and thank you for that bit of info. You have just validated my point that CR does not update thier information when major changes are introduced to Saturn models.*
You seem to know your CR issues well, but if you know your Saturns well, you will realize how much CR was missing year after year, not just on the ION.

*One example, then I am done here: 2005 ION was NOT the same as 2007. Aisin tranny vs Hydromatic, Sound-dampening materials never mentioned in CR, 140hp vs 145hp, improved engine for '07 only (actually an enhanced Cobalt engine), many changes never mentioned by CR.

Let's not forget what a winner thier Best Pick of 2004/05 was, the Ford Focus? Ahem...

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Old 01-14-2009, 11:25 AM   #94
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by marx404 View Post
(blah blah blah)

Let's not forget what a winner thier Best Pick of 2004/05 was, the Ford Focus? Ahem...

Come on people, seriously. I subscribed to CR, they are just as biased as the rest.

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Old 01-14-2009, 03:01 PM   #95
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeton Driver View Post
I don't think my deal was any worse than yours, you decide.
I got my XR with everything but XM radio in March 07. It had 5003 miles on it.
I have not had one thing wrong with the car except the sunroof inside cover rattle when open, no big deal.

I paid $21,300 for it and they gave me high book for my RAM 2500.
I was/am still very happy with the deal and the car.

But unless GM changes it's ways and stops building the same car with 3 or 4 brand names on it, thus competing with itself (many here has said they compared Saturn with Chevy) I would not buy another GM vehicle.
Worse? I am saying I got an awesome deal, but yea with the amount of miles on your car, you did get a pretty damn good deal too. Oh and mine doesnt have XM, although I dont really want it. Im a CD kind of guy. I just keep the in dash unit loaded with music. 6 discs x 250 songs per disc.

Im still very pleased with mine as well. I too have a slight rattle, but its somewhere in the little 'change holder' compartment on the dash to the left of the steering wheel. On a slightly bumpy road it will rattle, but I rigged it with velcrow and it doesnt do it anymore.

Get this, my trade in, 500 bucks. THAT pissed me off because just prior to purchasing my XR, I made extreme imporovements to my 01 Cougar. Entirely brand new brake system including master cylinder, fairly new tires with less then 2000 miles on them, also a completely new Air Conditioning system, and the car was in very good shapre considering what a piece of crap it was. So just those few areas of newly replaced components was worth WAYYY over 500, more like 3000. But I simply HAD to get a new car, I couldnt afford to keep putting so much money into a crappy car. So I cut the losses and purchased the Aura.

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Old 01-14-2009, 05:12 PM   #96
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Worse? I am saying I got an awesome deal, but yea with the amount of miles on your car, you did get a pretty damn good deal too. Oh and mine doesnt have XM, although I dont really want it. Im a CD kind of guy. I just keep the in dash unit loaded with music. 6 discs x 250 songs per disc.

Im still very pleased with mine as well. I too have a slight rattle, but its somewhere in the little 'change holder' compartment on the dash to the left of the steering wheel. On a slightly bumpy road it will rattle, but I rigged it with velcrow and it doesnt do it anymore.

Get this, my trade in, 500 bucks. THAT pissed me off because just prior to purchasing my XR, I made extreme imporovements to my 01 Cougar. Entirely brand new brake system including master cylinder, fairly new tires with less then 2000 miles on them, also a completely new Air Conditioning system, and the car was in very good shapre considering what a piece of crap it was. So just those few areas of newly replaced components was worth WAYYY over 500, more like 3000. But I simply HAD to get a new car, I couldnt afford to keep putting so much money into a crappy car. So I cut the losses and purchased the Aura.

The sad part is, it doesn't matter to them. To a dealer, a trade is a trade, especially if it's one that can't be put on their used car lot..

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Old 01-14-2009, 05:16 PM   #97
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Why not sell the Cougar on your own?

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Old 01-14-2009, 08:01 PM   #98
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marx404 View Post
I understand and thank you for that bit of info. You have just validated my point that CR does not update thier information when major changes are introduced to Saturn models.*
You seem to know your CR issues well, but if you know your Saturns well, you will realize how much CR was missing year after year, not just on the ION.

*One example, then I am done here: 2005 ION was NOT the same as 2007. Aisin tranny vs Hydromatic, Sound-dampening materials never mentioned in CR, 140hp vs 145hp, improved engine for '07 only (actually an enhanced Cobalt engine), many changes never mentioned by CR.

Let's not forget what a winner thier Best Pick of 2004/05 was, the Ford Focus? Ahem...
The 2005 had the Hydramatic. The 2007 wasn't improved enough to matter plus they knew the car was going off the market.
Remember CR buys their cars at dealers, they don't just ask the manufacturers for a test car. It would be too expensive to buy each car every year just to test a minor improvement
The Focus is a great car, I doubt it was best pick. It was probably recommended. Plus it's reliable

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Old 01-14-2009, 08:02 PM   #99
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by AuraDrvr89 View Post
Come on people, seriously. I subscribed to CR, they are just as biased as the rest.
They're biased towards good cars.

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Old 01-14-2009, 09:21 PM   #100
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Im a CD kind of guy. I just keep the in dash unit loaded with music. 6 discs x 250 songs per disc.
CD's??? really???? its all about an ipod man, or having a Phone that pays MP3's like a Blackberry like i have

1500 songs??? that's it ???

i have 4.1 gigs which is about 2000 songs, you need to upgrade it will change your music life lol hahahahaha

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