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Old 12-09-2008, 07:19 PM   #41
AJR
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post
Obvious conclusion - BUY THE GM or FORD, not the Toyota
Well, I don't know. My wife has worked her whole career in the OEM and after market parts industry and the demand by Toyota for the absolute best quality at all times, never ceases to amaze her. OTOH, she's always suprised at how GM couldn't care less about what kind of quality (or lack there of) they will accept.

Andy

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Old 12-09-2008, 07:27 PM   #42
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Its simple really.

Lutz spoke to reporters today and confirmed it. This isn't the 1980's anymore, our quality is as good and even better than Japan...

Thats admitting your weak.

What company wants to be playing catch up? (for 30 years)

I actually agree the quality has gotten better. GM Engines and trannys are bullet proof. Its the other stuff like comfort and noise in the car that they suck at.
Not to mention riveting every piece of the car together so it rattles to all hell in 5 years lol (They have come a long way with that, but they stlil rivet the rocker panels on the AURA - I will bet half the users on here are seperating

They should be setting a quality example, not were as good if not better.

It just sounds weak.

I for one think the AURA is great quality. The only things that I found to definitely be subpar next to the new Accord (because i get to sit in each first hand regularly) Is the center console on the accord and the leather trimmed doors blow the aura away. The auras are "plasticy" and cheap compared to it. Everything else is just as nice if not better.

I also prefer the more plush leather seating in the Accord to the Firm one of the AURA.

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Old 12-09-2008, 07:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post
Simple Math made simpler:
GM car made in Canada = profits to GM US = Good for trade deficit and US
Toyota car made in US = profits to Toyota Japan = Bad for trade deficit and US
GM and Ford = Higher Quality than Toyota at a lower first cost and lower overall cost of ownership

Obvious conclusion - BUY THE GM or FORD, not the Toyota
Exactly what I was getting at.

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Old 12-10-2008, 07:16 PM   #44
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Toyota quality continues slipping while GM and Ford improving:
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/au...s_quality.html

Ford overtakes Toyota in quality rankings:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19073071/

And many others.

It is OLD NEWS. Many foreign brands continue to drop in quality, while GM and Ford have been increasing quality. Ford is rated higher quality than Toyota and GM, as a whole, is getting closer to Toyota and some brands and models surpass various Toyota models. Add in lower purchase cost, better styling and better mpg than Toyota pretty much across the board; why do the brain-washed lemmings continue to follow the crowd and make the wrong decision to purchase the Toyota and help fuel the decline of manufacturing in the US and the trade deficit. Is it because they wrongly think that because some are assembled in the US that it is OK. Wrong.

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post

It is OLD NEWS. Many foreign brands continue to drop in quality, while GM and Ford have been increasing quality. Ford is rated higher quality than Toyota and GM, as a whole, is getting closer to Toyota and some brands and models surpass various Toyota models. Add in lower purchase cost, better styling and better mpg than Toyota pretty much across the board; why do the brain-washed lemmings continue to follow the crowd and make the wrong decision to purchase the Toyota and help fuel the decline of manufacturing in the US and the trade deficit. Is it because they wrongly think that because some are assembled in the US that it is OK. Wrong.
Maybe the decline in the quality of Toyota, Honda, and Nissan is due, simply to the fact that they are made here, in the US by US UAW workers with the UAW mentality. I doubt that the cars they make in japan are as poorly made as the US manufactured ones.

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Old 12-10-2008, 08:59 PM   #46
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

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Originally Posted by Phaeton Driver View Post
Maybe the decline in the quality of Toyota, Honda, and Nissan is due, simply to the fact that they are made here, in the US by US UAW workers with the UAW mentality. I doubt that the cars they make in japan are as poorly made as the US manufactured ones.
AFAIK, they don't employ UAW assembly line workers.

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Old 12-10-2008, 09:03 PM   #47
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

the UAW is one of the main thing holding the US Auto industry back... ill come back and add supporting info to my statement later lol

just wanted to add that in

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Old 12-10-2008, 11:00 PM   #48
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Idea Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

My $0.02? I would buy the GM "golden child" (ie: Chevy) equivalent of whatever Saturn i was considering. If the saturn I was looking at didn't have a cousin in Chevy, then I wouldn't look at it.

I still can't believe they're going to dump Saturn over Buick... just floors me.

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Old 12-11-2008, 12:55 AM   #49
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post
why do the brain-washed lemmings continue to follow the crowd and make the wrong decision to purchase the Toyota and help fuel the decline of manufacturing in the US and the trade deficit. Is it because they wrongly think that because some are assembled in the US that it is OK. Wrong.
So I guess the right thing is for me to buy a Vue that is made in Mexico?

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Old 12-11-2008, 03:20 AM   #50
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

I say if you like it more than any other car in your price range, buy it. That's what I did. I also happen to be a veteran mechanic and have come to the realization that no matter what you buy it will break down and wear out parts. Trade in value means squat if you plan on keeping the next vehicle as long as you did your SL 1. I just traded in my $50000 Tahoe that had 350000 km on it and got $1000. I was expecting a big fat $0 so I think I did ok. I bought a 2004 Vue Redline and have been grinning for the past month and couldn't be happier with it. I looked at a variety of other cars, Element, CR-V, Rav-4, Matrix, Vibe and when I drove my Vue I knew that was it. I don't expect to get even near what I paid for it after I put 350000 km on this one too but I'll sure enjoy driving it.

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Old 12-11-2008, 12:41 PM   #51
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Buying a GM Saturn VUE made in Mexico (with many of the components sourced in the US and the profits returning to the US and reducing the trade deficit) helps the US economy more than buying a Toyota made in Kentucky with the profits going to Japan and increasing the trade deficit.

And for those on a UAW kick - I am not a union supporter - however, the UAW is not the root cause for the US manufacturers problems. And the UAW is not causing quality problems. People that make such statement are commenting on ancient history and outdated paradigms. The UAW is not faultless, but stop bashing the 95%+ of UAW workers that are working their butts off to make quality products, keep their jobs and support their retirees.

Most of you making such comments must work in perfect jobs for perfect companies and are getting guaranteed pensions when you retire, and have no risk that your company may go bankrupt. Or you are just another angry American who wants the US to go into a depression with 18%+ unemployment, deflation and stagflation. Which is exactly what will happen if GM goes bankrupt or is forced to file Chapter 11.

...
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Old 12-12-2008, 12:04 PM   #52
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

I am sorry, I love my Aura, but I have compared my car to my Fathers Toyota and my Ex-Wifes Honda and he Aura is 3rd in overall quality between those three. Was it a better "deal"? Yes it was. For the money I saved it was a better deal for me.

However the other cars are put together better and do have a better track record of reliability. The cabins are quieter, and they get better gas millage.
Saying that GM or ford (HAHAHA) has better quality than Toyota or Honda is a blatantly obvious falsehood. While I think the underlying design is better, GM and ford let the bean counters change to much and then let the cars be build badly.

And I remember someone saying that Japanese car companies dont' pay well. I can tell you this, the Honda plant coming to Indiana is paying about 40K a year for people with no real experience. Sure on a Uninion scale where people who don't even work get paid that, it isn't a lot. But in the real world 38-40K is pretty damn good starting pay.

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Old 12-12-2008, 05:14 PM   #53
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

i just did

its the wifes car but i like it

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Old 12-14-2008, 02:16 AM   #54
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Try doing a little research before you go calling someone a liar. Your comment is based on ancient history, brain-washed paradigms and incorrect information. Or are you trying to compare a $40K Lexus to a $25K Fusion, Malibu or Aura?

As a whole Ford passed Toyota in 2007 in Quality, and was rated # 3 in quality as a company in 2008:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/0...t_n_50986.html

From the JD Powers results: " The Fusion and the Mercury Milan, which share the same platform, were named among the most reliable family cars, outscoring V6 versions of the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. The Lincoln Zephyr, which also shares the Fusion platform, was named the second most-reliable upscale sedan after the 2007 Lexus ES350. The Chevrolet Tahoe and the GMC Yukon from GM made the list of most reliable large SUVs...Ford's Mercury brand passed Honda Motor Co., the first time in recent memory an American marque has outperformed one of Japan's top brands. And GM's Chevy Malibu was singled out as one of the best new vehicles of the year."

GM as a whole is ranked below Toyota and Honda, but have MANY models rated higher in quality than equivilant models of Toyota and Honda. The Malibu, Aura, Chevrolet full-size pickup trucks, several Cadillac and Buick models are among those.

I have owned and regularly drive Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans and VW's from my companies fleet. Ford and GM quality is EQUAL to or BETTER than any, particularly when it comes to interior trim, plastic, fit and finish. You personal opinion is just that - an OPINION. My information is based on data and FACTS.

My opinion is that the Aura and Malibu (2007 and 2008 Cars of the Year) are better built, quieter and ride smoother than the Camry, Accord, Altima and Passat. An opinion shared by many automotive reviewers and critics.

And, by the way, the total cost of ownership of the GM or Ford is less than the Toyota, Honda, Nissan and VW. That includes original price (price paid, not sticker price), maintenance/repairs, gas mileage and trade-in value. That is another fact based on studies with data, not my opinion.

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Old 12-14-2008, 05:14 PM   #55
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraDrvr89 View Post
Why wouldn't you?

It isn't 100% that Saturn is ditched yet.

Buy the car, drive it, enjoy it. Tell the story of Saturn to your friends while you can. Service, parts, warranty, nothing to worry about there because you will be backed by GM.

I don't know why everyone suddenly wants to ditch their Saturns if the brand gets axed..

When Oldsmobile was cut, people still bought, and are still buying used Oldsmobiles. From what I've seen, the resale prices haven't plummeted.

You can still buy used Oldsmobiles with resale values close to their GM siblings.

I wouldn't worry. IF you want a Saturn, buy one.

If you don't, you might as well consider yourself as also leading to the demise of Saturn.
the 2nd gen aurora actually commanded much better resale than its bonneville twin and good ones still command high prices on the used market.

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Old 12-15-2008, 01:39 PM   #56
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

I heard this morning that Chinese car company, Shanghai Motors is interested in Saturn. That would be interesting.

To answer your question. That's a tough one. I would probably wait it out and see what GM's going to do with Saturn. If GM sells Saturn or discontinues the brand, I'm going back to Ford for my next new vehicle.

...
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:37 PM   #57
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Nope, this is my last GM. Owned 2 Hyundais'. Got rid of my Elantra. Really wanted the Azera but the wife talked me out of it. Now I have this Aura. Not the worst car I've owned but not as refined as my XG350 or even close to that Azera I didn't buy.

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Old 12-15-2008, 05:54 PM   #58
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VWCarcrazy View Post
Try doing a little research before you go calling someone a liar. Your comment is based on ancient history, brain-washed paradigms and incorrect information. Or are you trying to compare a $40K Lexus to a $25K Fusion, Malibu or Aura?

As a whole Ford passed Toyota in 2007 in Quality, and was rated # 3 in quality as a company in 2008:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/0...t_n_50986.html

From the JD Powers results: " The Fusion and the Mercury Milan, which share the same platform, were named among the most reliable family cars, outscoring V6 versions of the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. The Lincoln Zephyr, which also shares the Fusion platform, was named the second most-reliable upscale sedan after the 2007 Lexus ES350. The Chevrolet Tahoe and the GMC Yukon from GM made the list of most reliable large SUVs...Ford's Mercury brand passed Honda Motor Co., the first time in recent memory an American marque has outperformed one of Japan's top brands. And GM's Chevy Malibu was singled out as one of the best new vehicles of the year."

GM as a whole is ranked below Toyota and Honda, but have MANY models rated higher in quality than equivilant models of Toyota and Honda. The Malibu, Aura, Chevrolet full-size pickup trucks, several Cadillac and Buick models are among those.

I have owned and regularly drive Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans and VW's from my companies fleet. Ford and GM quality is EQUAL to or BETTER than any, particularly when it comes to interior trim, plastic, fit and finish. You personal opinion is just that - an OPINION. My information is based on data and FACTS.

My opinion is that the Aura and Malibu (2007 and 2008 Cars of the Year) are better built, quieter and ride smoother than the Camry, Accord, Altima and Passat. An opinion shared by many automotive reviewers and critics.

And, by the way, the total cost of ownership of the GM or Ford is less than the Toyota, Honda, Nissan and VW. That includes original price (price paid, not sticker price), maintenance/repairs, gas mileage and trade-in value. That is another fact based on studies with data, not my opinion.

I agree about the quality of the GM products over the Honda and Toyota. Summer of 2007, my dealership purchased a Honda Accord and a Toyota Camry. We got to drive them over a two month period with customers and by ourselves to do a side by side comparison. I tried to compare the three without prejudice, but honestly the Aura stood head and shoulders above the other two. The Aura was quieter and the quality of materials, the fit and finish and overall feel was superior. And that's what my customers were saying...

...
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:44 PM   #59
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Thumbs Up Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraDrvr89 View Post
Why wouldn't you?

It isn't 100% that Saturn is ditched yet.

Buy the car, drive it, enjoy it. Tell the story of Saturn to your friends while you can. Service, parts, warranty, nothing to worry about there because you will be backed by GM.

I don't know why everyone suddenly wants to ditch their Saturns if the brand gets axed..

When Oldsmobile was cut, people still bought, and are still buying used Oldsmobiles. From what I've seen, the resale prices haven't plummeted.

You can still buy used Oldsmobiles with resale values close to their GM siblings.

I wouldn't worry. IF you want a Saturn, buy one.

If you don't, you might as well consider yourself as also leading to the demise of Saturn.
Dude, you hit the nail right square on the head. THIS IS the Ultimate answer. Spot on and nothing more to add to it. Thank You.

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Old 12-16-2008, 01:31 PM   #60
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Default Re: Would You Buy A Saturn - Now ?

Just co-signed on a Saturn Aura XR yesterday for the fiancee. Makes me jealous (even though I still like my Vue).

I'm a little worried about GM failing, but as a Metro Detroit resident, the warranty will be the least of my worries if that happens...

In any case, I figure better to support GM than to sit back and do nothing.

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