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Old 06-20-2007, 10:37 PM   #61
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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Originally Posted by DeMAN View Post
Its ashamed when a compact car has more to offer than the Bu'ra The new Civic look sweet but they are a little to small for me.
If you sat in it, it has plenty of room. I'm 6'2" and ~188 & fit just fine. The wheel tilts and telescopes and the seat has up/down for the bottom cushion so getting comfy is pretty easy. My wife, as full-time mommy, drives for a hobby it seems like so I really wanted the efficiency of the Civic and it drives like a go-cart compared to the CRV-SE we had. Her first tank of city driving gave 32mpg whereas the SE gave 17 so I'm pretty pleased.

The Aura is really nice though - probably the most competitive product Saturn has put out in some time.

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Old 06-20-2007, 10:51 PM   #62
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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I agree - I won't be continuing the Onstar subscription at the end of the twelve month free program. I have not continued the XM subscription after the end of the three month free period.
At this price point (for the Aura XR), it should be free, or at the very least, optional when you purchase the car.
Anyone know how much it will cost to renew Onstar for a year?

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Old 06-20-2007, 11:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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Its ashamed when a compact car has more to offer than the Bu'ra The new Civic look sweet but they are a little to small for me. When will GM start doing something to keep people from wanting to drive the Camry?
I didn't know that the Civic offers leather upholstery, heated front seats, power adjustable pedals, power seats, rear seat audio controls, and/or remote start. Even the Acura CSX version is mostly going to get you the heated leather seats...not the other features.
People want to drive the Camry because they trust them. The Camry is safe, reliable, comfortable transportation...many don't need another reason to switch.

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Old 06-21-2007, 12:20 PM   #64
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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I didn't know that the Civic offers leather upholstery, heated front seats, power adjustable pedals, power seats, rear seat audio controls, and/or remote start. Even the Acura CSX version is mostly going to get you the heated leather seats...not the other features.
People want to drive the Camry because they trust them. The Camry is safe, reliable, comfortable transportation...many don't need another reason to switch.
I also didn't know that the Bu'ra would hold its value having all those nice little options. I would take a Civic si or even the regular civic any day of the week over the Aura. At least it will be worth something w/o give up your first born for down payment The Civic current ranks number 1 in resale value for new car priced under $30k They also sell 30k Civic per month

Quote:
I'm 6'2" and ~188 & fit just fine.
I'm 5'11" and wider. I do have a friend that your hieght and my size that seem to be happy with his Civic Hybrid.

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Old 06-21-2007, 12:39 PM   #65
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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Anyone know how much it will cost to renew Onstar for a year?
For month to month it is $16.95/month. They do have special packages available. Just push your blue button and ask the advisor.

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Old 06-21-2007, 12:44 PM   #66
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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I would take a Civic si or even the regular civic any day of the week over the Aura. At least it will be worth something w/o give up your first born for down payment


.

I didn't have to put anything down on my Aura, got an amazing price for my trade and didn't have to pay for any dealer add ons. I read your post on another thread, but just b/c one buyer choses to put a lot down, does not mean everyone has to to buy an Aura. BTW, nothing wrong with putting money down to get a better payment. I am on a budget myself, and you do what you have to do sometimes.

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Old 06-21-2007, 04:10 PM   #67
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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For month to month it is $16.95/month. They do have special packages available. Just push your blue button and ask the advisor.
That is a lot more than XM and you actually get a tangible service from XM. That is $200 a year - for 5 years and you could have had a heck of a nice in-dash Nav system...

I don't understand why GM says that the Aura/Malibu and cousins can't have a Nav. It seems improbable that the platform won't accept one - Nav is nothing more than a GPS receiver and a screen. Does anyone know the source on why the Aura platform can't have a Nav??

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Old 06-21-2007, 04:30 PM   #68
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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That is a lot more than XM and you actually get a tangible service from XM. That is $200 a year - for 5 years and you could have had a heck of a nice in-dash Nav system...

I don't understand why GM says that the Aura/Malibu and cousins can't have a Nav. It seems improbable that the platform won't accept one - Nav is nothing more than a GPS receiver and a screen. Does anyone know the source on why the Aura platform can't have a Nav??
But a Nav system won't unlock my doors for me

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Old 06-21-2007, 06:55 PM   #69
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

[QUOTE=piney;1080510]That is a lot more than XM and you actually get a tangible service from XM. That is $200 a year - for 5 years and you could have had a heck of a nice in-dash Nav system...

I don't understand why GM says that the Aura/Malibu and cousins can't have a Nav. It seems improbable that the platform won't accept one - Nav is nothing more than a GPS receiver and a screen. Does anyone know the source on why the Aura platform can't have a Nav??[/QUOTE]

No idea, I just know that it can't.

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Old 06-21-2007, 07:45 PM   #70
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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No idea, I just know that it can't.

Just as I suspected - it is not that it can't but they won't put it in. It is not as if, by the result of some odd cosmic interference that only VTHokie could explain or understand, the Aura interrupts GPS signals from being received nearby, it is just that GM won't do it and that is just silly and a shame as the option is a great option and one that keeps the car competitive in the market segment.

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Old 06-21-2007, 08:37 PM   #71
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

Nav is a major consideration for me with my next car. It is not hard to do either. Most other cars simply buy the unit from Pioneer and add a custom face plate.

To me, I just think that the people that designed the Aura didn't understand the market very well. Perhaps this was their first car or they were the same ones that worked on the L series and thought it had all of the options anyone could possibly need. Clearly they missed when it came to a lot of features that people want. Compared to how well the Outlook, Sky, new VUE, and the upcoming Astra are targeted, I am surprised by how many things the market wants and the Aura lacks. Heck, even the Fusion now offers a nav system. The Civic offers one. The Jetta offers one. Why can cars that are priced thousands less have more upscale options than the Aura? I really wonder if anyone at Saturn gets it that people want more and that they missed the boat? Oh yeah, and the Camry, Accord, Altima, Sebring... basically ALL OTHER MIDSIZE SEDANs ON THE ROAD offer a nav. But not the Aura

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Old 06-21-2007, 09:14 PM   #72
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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Just as I suspected - it is not that it can't but they won't put it in. It is not as if, by the result of some odd cosmic interference that only VTHokie could explain or understand, the Aura interrupts GPS signals from being received nearby, it is just that GM won't do it and that is just silly and a shame as the option is a great option and one that keeps the car competitive in the market segment.

No, the Aura CAN NOT have a Nav system.
The entire epsilon platform is missing whatever it needs to accept a Nav.
The decision to not have a NAV was made YEARS before the Aura ever came to be.

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Old 06-21-2007, 09:37 PM   #73
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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No, the Aura CAN NOT have a Nav system.
The entire epsilon platform is missing whatever it needs to accept a Nav.
The decision to not have a NAV was made YEARS before the Aura ever came to be.
Maybe there is a disconnect between my understanding of a Nav system and yours. A Nav is a GPS receiver antennae on the car and a nice big color screen where the stereo goes. Ideally, as with my wife's Civic, the touchscreen Nav is also the stereo and address book. The Aura and its cousins could easily have an aftermarket Nav put in so it ain't the car so much as it is the manufacturer. If the aftermarket can do it, surely it can be done from the factory if GM wanted it done.

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Old 06-21-2007, 11:12 PM   #74
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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I also didn't know that the Bu'ra would hold its value having all those nice little options. I would take a Civic si or even the regular civic any day of the week over the Aura. At least it will be worth something w/o give up your first born for down payment The Civic current ranks number 1 in resale value for new car priced under $30k They also sell 30k Civic per month
And how does that have to do with navigation systems vs. the other features? You said that the Civic "has more to offer" because it offers nav. I said that the Civic doesn't offer "leather upholstery, heated front seats, power adjustable pedals, power seats, rear seat audio controls, and/or remote start" that the Aura offers. A lot of buyers consider nav to be just a "nice little option" too with no need for it. Don't you have heated leather power seats on your TL?

The Civic is also a nameplate with a 30+ year reputation behind it as well as a positive image for Honda itself. Saturn hasn't even been around for thirty years, let alone sell a nameplate that long.

Go buy a Civic then, as they're definitely not in the same class (compact vs. midsize). Do you actually like the Civic better or are you just saying that because of the resale value?

Then again, as you told us a while ago, the Aura was to be screwed when it came out because the new Lexus IS was going to offer a lot of the same features, even though the Saturn Aura and Lexus IS are hardly comparable by a long shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixsigma
Oh yeah, and the Camry, Accord, Altima, Sebring... basically ALL OTHER MIDSIZE SEDANs ON THE ROAD offer a nav. But not the Aura
A navigation system isn't going to cure the Aura's problems. The Sebring may offer nav but that doesn't make it perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by likeneverbefore
The entire epsilon platform is missing whatever it needs to accept a Nav.
Does "entire" include the Opel Vectra and Saab 9-3? They are very different from the other models but you did say entire, and then they must have something that the Malibu/G6/Aura don't then.
If the Epsilon models are missing what it needs to have nav, what was it that GM's U-body minivans had that allowed them to have the navigation available as an accessory starting with the new '05 models? Granted, that was a different radio unit and different nav, but there's more than just that. The U-body vans are/were less important than their midsize sedans.

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Old 06-22-2007, 08:02 AM   #75
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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I also didn't know that the Bu'ra would hold its value having all those nice little options. I would take a Civic si or even the regular civic any day of the week over the Aura. At least it will be worth something w/o give up your first born for down payment The Civic current ranks number 1 in resale value for new car priced under $30k They also sell 30k Civic per month
Quote:
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And how does that have to do with navigation systems vs. the other features? You said that the Civic "has more to offer" because it offers nav. I said that the Civic doesn't offer "leather upholstery, heated front seats, power adjustable pedals, power seats, rear seat audio controls, and/or remote start" that the Aura offers. A lot of buyers consider nav to be just a "nice little option" too with no need for it. Don't you have heated leather power seats on your TL?
Feature wise Bu'ra offers alot, but not what the cars in there class offers.
While the Civic doesnt offer "leather upholstery, heated front seats, power adjustable pedals, power seats", is does offer one piece of equipment that should be offered in every New designed midsize car. NAV
Yes my wife car does have heated leather seats, but my 97 >205K miles Grand prix GTP doesnt. (Its my daily driver) It has cloth seats because thats the way I ordered. It came with a tire monitoring system, and headsup deplay 10+ years ago. Its has had an (aftermarket) remote start for almost 5 years

Quote:
The Civic is also a nameplate with a 30+ year reputation behind it as well as a positive image for Honda itself. Saturn hasn't even been around for thirty years, let alone sell a nameplate that long.
There are other nameplates with longer histories in the GM family that doesn't sale like the Civic, yet the Honda name has it up in the top three in sales

Quote:
piney:The wife's Civic EX-Navi has a 6.5 inch touch screen with voice activated controls. It wasn't $300 but it is unreal how well it works - better than what her Pacifica had and the screen is wonderful, flips to an inverted look when you turn the lights on too. You can't beat Nav from the factory for integration. Sure it ain't as handy as OnStar and their monthly fees but what do you expect from a car made in Ohio
I was wondering how the Civic came into this thread. That's right; A midsize option in a compact

Quote:
Go buy a Civic then, as they're definitely not in the same class (compact vs. midsize). Do you actually like the Civic better or are you just saying that because of the resale value?
Well, 44,513 people liked them last month with 4520 of those being hybrids
Just missed being #2 in sales by 725 cars. Thats competition
I personally like my 95 SC2 now because it has a new used engine that doesn't use oil per 3k miles like a normal car should and it paid off. It the wife's or my daily driver when she isn't working.



Quote:
Then again, as you told us a while ago, the Aura was to be screwed when it came out because the new Lexus IS was going to offer a lot of the same features, even though the Saturn Aura and Lexus IS are hardly comparable by a long shot.
You're right, the Bu'ra compares more to the Lexus ES actually in size, however the Lexus IS350 has managed to passed the Aura in sales even though it cost more. It also has those little extra you are so fund of on the Aura.
The ES which I don't like actually cheaper than the IS

BTW. The whole idea about my comments on the Bu'ra is that GM as a car company is to make sure that they car attract Camry owners. Boring or not it sells and it only gets greater. I just hope that GM doesn't drop the ball with the G8. Hopefully it will (offer) have the NAV and other features that a midize car should have. Hopefully the V6 3.6 version will get better mileage than Aura which I doubt because its actually heavier.

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Old 06-22-2007, 08:31 AM   #76
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

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Just as I suspected - it is not that it can't but they won't put it in. It is not as if, by the result of some odd cosmic interference that only VTHokie could explain or understand, the Aura interrupts GPS signals from being received nearby, it is just that GM won't do it and that is just silly and a shame as the option is a great option and one that keeps the car competitive in the market segment.
You can absolutely install an aftermarket NAV system. It just won't integrate with OnStar. If you don't want OnStar anyway, it's no big deal. For a tad north of a thousand bucks, you can get a Pioneer AVIC-D3 with bluetooth, Ipod integration, and XM (or maybe Sirius...I forget).

For those that can't remember to take their keys out of their car, perhaps OnStar makes a nice crutch. In 25 years of driving, it has never happened to me so I'd rather use that $200/year for something a bit more productive.

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Old 06-22-2007, 08:33 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by likeneverbefore View Post
No, the Aura CAN NOT have a Nav system.
The entire epsilon platform is missing whatever it needs to accept a Nav.
The decision to not have a NAV was made YEARS before the Aura ever came to be.
That is simply not true. It is only a matter of GM wanting to foist OnStar on customers. Adding a nav system is trivial from a design perspective.

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Old 06-22-2007, 09:54 AM   #78
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And how does that have to do with navigation systems vs. the other features? You said that the Civic "has more to offer" because it offers nav. I said that the Civic doesn't offer "leather upholstery, heated front seats, power adjustable pedals, power seats, rear seat audio controls, and/or remote start" that the Aura offers. A lot of buyers consider nav to be just a "nice little option" too with no need for it. Don't you have heated leather power seats on your TL?

The Civic is also a nameplate with a 30+ year reputation behind it as well as a positive image for Honda itself. Saturn hasn't even been around for thirty years, let alone sell a nameplate that long.

Go buy a Civic then, as they're definitely not in the same class (compact vs. midsize). Do you actually like the Civic better or are you just saying that because of the resale value?

Then again, as you told us a while ago, the Aura was to be screwed when it came out because the new Lexus IS was going to offer a lot of the same features, even though the Saturn Aura and Lexus IS are hardly comparable by a long shot.


A navigation system isn't going to cure the Aura's problems. The Sebring may offer nav but that doesn't make it perfect.


Does "entire" include the Opel Vectra and Saab 9-3? They are very different from the other models but you did say entire, and then they must have something that the Malibu/G6/Aura don't then.
If the Epsilon models are missing what it needs to have nav, what was it that GM's U-body minivans had that allowed them to have the navigation available as an accessory starting with the new '05 models? Granted, that was a different radio unit and different nav, but there's more than just that. The U-body vans are/were less important than their midsize sedans.

The models effected are the Aura, G6, Malibu. As you know the Opal uses a slightly different epsilon platform. SWB vs LWB.
Also the 9-3 has all wheel drive, Don't ask me how but it does. Is the Saab on the SWB?

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Old 06-22-2007, 04:22 PM   #79
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You can absolutely install an aftermarket NAV system. It just won't integrate with OnStar. ,
Actually, it can. For an extra $125 at Circuit City they have an adapter that allows OnStar to still function with the new Pioneer Navs. If Circuit City can do it, I am pretty sure that GM can. That just means that they chose not to. I'll go back to my point that those that designed the car for the US simply didn't understand the market's wants in terms of "goodies".

cdp326, you are right. Nav doesn't make the Sebring perfect. Actually, I find the whole car simply awful. However, it has things like a 20GB stereo with nav, heated / cooled cupholders, and other things that people will buy. I am not saying those are good options, but their designers clearly understood the things that make Americans spend their money.

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Old 06-22-2007, 05:41 PM   #80
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Default Re: Drove a Camry today

I might be in the minority, but I actually like not having the navigation system. One less item to break and it makes the dashboard look cleaner without too much high tech clutter. The Directions & Connections plan from OnStar I prefer over using a traditional navigation system, it's really quite cool. I still have my Garmin iQue PDA that I used in my old car just in case I want a traditional navigation unit at some point.

And stop saying Bu'ra...say Aurabu Salesman at my Saturn dealer used that to describe the new Malibu and I like it, ha ha.

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