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#61 | ||||
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![]() And no: wheninrome. Not a Danzition but referencing XRL's comments re: Cadillac and Buick. Go back and read it again. You're all over the map ascribing comments others have made to me.
GM is trying to change those marque's images. The public will decide whether there's any worth to them other than $4700.00 worth of tax payer money on the hood.
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#62 | |||||
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Location: San Gabriel Valley (Los Angeles area), California
Posts: 92
2007 AURA XR
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It's a little bit of a reach for you to conclude that I "WON'T" ever purchase a Buick... My Aura has about three years left on it's bumper-to-bumper, and from there I usually drive a car until it starts experiencing a small level of mechanical grief. THEN I know it's time... So it depends on what's available then. If it were today or next year, a LaCrosse - and probably the Regal - would be of interest to me... ... Now: 07 Saturn Aura XR 3.6 Black / 04 Olds Bravada Final 500 Dark Cherry (both paid for!) Then: 02 Olds Alero GLS / 01 Olds Aurora 3.5 / 95 Ford T-Bird LX-V8 In Fam: 05 Buick LaCrosse CXS
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#63 | |||||
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Location: Hickory, NC
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2004 VUE Red Line
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How could your Aura have 3 years left on its bumper to bumper? The B2B on Saturns is always 3 years unless you purchase an extended one (in which case you could theoretically pro rate it out). So here's the strangest part of the whole SUV thing to me. Old people HATE them. I barely ever see an old/retire person driving an SUV or crossover. Always big sedans or little sports cars. I think it's because the height makes it hard for them to get into with bad hips, knees, backs, etc. In any case, Personally I hope people don't buy the Buick not being old people cars thing, because I want to see GM fail liquidated. But people already changed their conceptions about Caddy, so it's possible for Buick.
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#64 | |||||
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I am also not of the same mind who do not consider anything but an S series a Saturn. Like you I am a love what I've got type. Some don't think the ION qualifies as a "real" Saturn either. The Aura is a beautiful car and I have been partial to Olds and Chrysler for many years. Spending money to impress the neighbors is not something I am interested in either. Could have had a "bigger" house, a "better" car, but not willing to give up the time and energy and money to chase a "lifestyle". And as you wisely pointed out, people who drive flashy cars and live in the largest house do not necessarily have money in the bank. [Read "The Millionaire Next Door" for more on that one]. The leasing/housing collapse made that pretty obvious. All hat no cattle? My apologies for taking things way more seriously than I needed to. If I wanted to be "cool" I wouldn't be driving a Saturn in the first place. Point being, I think it was in the 50s , the head of Pontiac made the statement:"You can sell an old man a young man's car, but you can't sell a young man an old man's car". This about the time GM was preparing to take Pontiac out of the maiden aunt segment. It's still true. And I think GM has an uphill battle with Buick's image and not enough time to turn it around. Maybe these cars are game changers. I have my doubts. I find them attractive, but I am so pissed at GM right now for so many reasons, I am not willing to give them the benefit of even hoping they'll succeed. Hyundai took years. That took dedication and focus. Something in short supply when it comes to GM. They just can't resist the rebadge urge. As to the Escalade: I still don't get it and I guess I went overboard with my description of it's target market. It's just so cynical of GM to thinly disguise a Chevrolet [truck, no less], throw some extra bling on it and call it a Cadillac. It's insulting to the brand and it's legacy. I don't don't understand how people are willing to pretend that the thing is somehow "better" than a garden variety Chevy, built with any more care or carries with it an ounce more "prestige" other than GM says it does because it's got a Cadillac crest on it. Especially for the price premium. I*just*don't* get* it. ![]() XRL: didn't mean to come off as a snatch to you either. We all operate in our own spheres. Just because I can't see the sense in something, doesn't mean that others are free to indulge in an Escalade. Or a Relay. Or a Topaz. Or G3. ![]()
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#65 | |||||
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Not so with their sons and daughters and grandchildren. They saw that those names were being exploited and cheapened with clones and badge engineering. Yes, an Acura is a Honda underneath, but they seem to have done a far better job of differentiating between the two than say Chevrolet and Pontiac or Ford and Mercury. Our domestics squandered their own brand's equity trying to chase volume, and attempting to market the cars like Proctor & Gamble sells tooth paste. Sad. I saw a Studebaker Lark chugging onto the Hollywood Freeway today. Maybe I have had it with new cars from any maker for good. Maybe that guy in the Lark will be me in 30 years. In my ION. ![]() ![]()
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#66 | |||||
Member
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Location: San Gabriel Valley (Los Angeles area), California
Posts: 92
2007 AURA XR
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So I did start off by telling the dealer that we were disregarding their "markup" (something like $1500!) if we wanted to continue... A thousand dollar manufacturer's rebate then came off. Then I ended things with insisting on the 5-year/60K GM Major Guard warranty with $0 deductible. At first they said they couldn't... I started to walk, and then they agreed to it. Hey, I think it was a reasonable request. I don't think it was the best deal I ever got on a car. But it was the best deal I was going to get on the car I wanted, this car, at the time in the fall of '07. And Citation, thanks... and no worries. Besides, an Escalade is not my thing, either! ![]() ... Now: 07 Saturn Aura XR 3.6 Black / 04 Olds Bravada Final 500 Dark Cherry (both paid for!) Then: 02 Olds Alero GLS / 01 Olds Aurora 3.5 / 95 Ford T-Bird LX-V8 In Fam: 05 Buick LaCrosse CXS
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#67 | ||||||
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Posts: 89
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#68 | ||||
Master Member
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Location: Hickory, NC
Posts: 2,841
2004 VUE Red Line
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![]() Because we're not ever going to see it come back to us anyways? And because doing what we did undermines the free market system? And because GM *still* is burdened by what brought them down in the first place? And now, instead of kicking the UAW out for contributing to the problem, they own partly? That's almost like if they had given a portion of GM to a slow moving bureaucratic decision making process that never actually went ahead with anything, and only followed into markets after they had been fully exploited.
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#69 | |||||
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#70 | ||||||
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... Member of the Crank Window Club
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#71 | |||||
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I'm going with a big sedan when I'm old though. Maybe a Lincoln or a Buick. ... Member of the Crank Window Club
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#72 | |||||
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I can go pretty far before I'd give up on a car but I probably won't rebuild a front suspension like I did on my Audi. ... Member of the Crank Window Club
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#73 | |||||
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But this is GM's premiere brand, their supposed [what used to be known as] "Standard Of The World". I just don't think GM can reach that again using down market Chevrolets as the basis for their products and expect a premiuim price for them. Not with any credibility anyway. Strive for better than just "something to sell" in the segment, GM. While not a total Cimarron make over, it's pretty much what Lincoln did to the Granada to get the Versailles...........
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#74 | ||||
Master Member
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Location: Hickory, NC
Posts: 2,841
2004 VUE Red Line
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![]() GM doesn't have the resources to put all the Caddys on their own platforms and not share components with normal GMs. It's just not a part of the question, between higher wages here, and all their other overhead costs, it won't happen. Furthermore, I can't think of any of the Japanese luxury utes that have their OWN platform. The MDX is on the same one as the Pilot. The RX is a Camry, the LX is a Land Cruiser, and the GX is actually just a rebadged Toyota from where there is no Lexus (and probably built on the Land Cruiser platform). The QX56 is an Armada even to a blind man.
Caddy can't be the standard of the world,because they can't afford it. They need to be more of the "adequate luxury vehicle at a good price" of the world, because THAT is something they can attain. And they better start getting ready, because Hyundai is coming out swinging with its luxury offerings. Wait until they come out with a Genesis SUV using that Borrego.
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#75 | |||||
Master Member
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,524
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![]() ... No more Saturns! :( '11 & '15 Subaru Forester; '15 Nissan Altima
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#76 | ||||
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![]() Today's full page ads show such barn-burner bonanza deals such as $4,000 off an Outlook XE, fwd for only 27k and change (after the rebate). With deals like this, they will be on the lot till the 2011 models are out from the competition.
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#77 | ||||
Senior Member
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Location: San Diego, Ca
Posts: 1,946
2001 L-Series 3.0L Wagon
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![]() Yep, got that here in todays paper too. Hummm, I can get a "great deal" whopping $4,000 off on an orphaned Outlook that'll really take a hit on depreciation due to it's orphan status, or, for just about the same money, in the ad right next to it I can get $10,000 off a Ford F-150 Supercrew from a company that's making a good comeback without gubmint money...........
More proof that GM just doesn't get it! ... Jerry N "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it and then misapplying the wrong remedies." Groucho Marx
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#78 | |||||
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![]() Plus Ford is losing money just as quickly as everyone else is, they just borrowed 20 billion back in 2007 to prop themselves up this long. The Outlook won't depreciate that much because it's exactly the same as an Acadia or Traverse. ... Member of the Crank Window Club
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#79 | |||||
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I think anything with a Saturn badge is going to take a bit of a depreciation hit due to the division's demise. You're deluding yourself if you think that isn't happening. That might make for some good deals once the fire sale goes into full swing, but taking comfort in future service availability because it's a GM auto doesn't give me the warm fuzzies at all. ... All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts, but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. -Frank Herbert-
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#80 | ||||||
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