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Old 01-09-2005, 09:20 PM   #1
kenerly
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Default 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

Special thanks to Razorback for trying to help me with this problem when I could not post on the forum due to an error I kept gettingÖ.

Iím almost afraid to tell you Iím an ASE Master Mechanic, but I am and canít fix this crazy problem for nothing.

I have a friendís 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start.
On Xmas eve they drove the car home with no problem. Next day the car would not start. They had it towed to me and here it is...

Checked for fire at each cylinder, all good.
Cleaned coils and module
Checked fuel presser and injector pluses, all good.
Replaced the crank sensor thinking it was not firing every thing in sync.
ECT reading correct temp on scanner, plugged in 45deg, unplugged -40deg..
Fuel pressure is reading 45lbs
Compression on each cylinder is a min 125lbs. (1st compression test)
Pulled timing cover, perfect alignment (in time).
Removed EGR valve, clean as could be.


I redid the compression test. (doing it the correct way this time) Disabled fire, fuel and held throttle open for a 10count on each cylinder.

1= 210 2= 210 3= 150 4= 145

Got it to start with new plugs but would not stay running. Scanner showed cylinders 1 and 2 non stop misfire? The good compression cylinders mind you.

So pulled the head and sent it out to the machine shop. They found zero wrong. Plugs 1 and 2 where carboned (new ones) and 3 and 4 where nice and clean (the low compression cylinders) I feel like Iím beating my head on a wall.

Iím hoping that pulling the head may fix a problem I did not see. Like a leaking intake gasket or something.

BTW, what does a new timing gear & chain set with all the guides and tensioner cost from the dealer?
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Old 01-09-2005, 10:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

timing chain set is about $200

you may want to do a leak down test, i fear the rings may be shot.

also check intake and exhaust for restrictions(did some mice decide to make a nest inside the air filter?)

the wrong cylinders may be showing the missfire if the wires are not in the right order(on block 1-2-3-4, on coils 4-1-2-3) this is due to the S-series crazy little fake cam sensor thing - http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43380
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Old 01-09-2005, 10:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenerly
Compression on each cylinder is a min 125lbs. (1st compression test)
Pulled timing cover, perfect alignment (in time).
Removed EGR valve, clean as could be.


I redid the compression test. (doing it the correct way this time) Disabled fire, fuel and held throttle open for a 10count on each cylinder.

1= 210 2= 210 3= 150 4= 145

Got it to start with new plugs but would not stay running. Scanner showed cylinders 1 and 2 non stop misfire? The good compression cylinders mind you.

So pulled the head and sent it out to the machine shop. They found zero wrong. Plugs 1 and 2 where carboned (new ones) and 3 and 4 where nice and clean (the low compression cylinders) I feel like Iím beating my head on a wall.

Iím hoping that pulling the head may fix a problem I did not see. Like a leaking intake gasket or something.

BTW, what does a new timing gear & chain set with all the guides and tensioner cost from the dealer?
Welcome to the forum. Glad to see you're finally able to post. Hopefully some of these other guys will be able to help you out where I've been coming up short.

The only thing I can add above to what sierrap615 has already suggested is that the compression readings on cylinders 3 & 4 are way out of spec. If I recall correctly, the factory spec says something like a minimum of 180 psi &/or no cylinder more than 20 psi lower than any of the others. Since you've now had the head inspected since our last PM exchange, presumably the outside machine shop has ruled out leaking valves? Perhaps you can confirm that?

Now that the head is off, have you personally inspected the cylinder walls? Do you still see the crosshatching from the original honing in place? Are there any visible imperfections?

When I rebuilt my 96 DOHC, the crosshatching was still visible after 70,000 miles, and there were no visible ridges at the tops of any of the cylinders. Ridge reamer was not needed. Pistons just dropped out when I removed the rod caps. I understand that this is pretty common for Saturns, so if your's are really worn, that might support sierra's theory about the rings being shot.

If it turns out to be worn rings or cylinder walls, oversize rings are available directly from Saturn or from one of the aftermarket suppliers.

Last edited by Razorbak; 01-09-2005 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 01-09-2005, 10:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

What plugs are you using?
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

At this point there is really nothing to do until the head is back on and you are at a point where you are able to try and start the engine.



With there having been spark at all four plug wires then the crank sensor would have been ok.

Any chance on the second compression test that the battery was getting a bit low resulting in the 3 and 4 cyinder lower readings?


"Got it to start with new plugs but would not stay running. Scanner showed cylinders 1 and 2 non stop misfire? The good compression cylinders mind you.

So pulled the head and sent it out to the machine shop. They found zero wrong. Plugs 1 and 2 where carboned (new ones) and 3 and 4 where nice and clean (the low compression cylinders) I feel like Iím beating my head on a wall."


Have you checked the injectors? Not likely but could 1 and two be staying open al the time resulting in constant fuel injection?

Was the EGR valve stuck open or does it sitck?
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

Quote:
also check intake and exhaust for restrictions(did some mice decide to make a nest inside the air filter?)
No restrictions.

Quote:
the wrong cylinders may be showing the missfire if the wires are not in the right order
Checked 100 times, good.

Quote:
presumably the outside machine shop has ruled out leaking valves
Correct

Quote:
Do you still see the crosshatching from the original honing in place?
Perfect crosshatching.

Quote:
What plugs are you using?
Had NGK now AC.

Quote:
Any chance on the second compression test that the battery was getting a bit low resulting in the 3 and 4 cyinder lower readings?
Just charged battery 1 hour before test.

Quote:
Have you checked the injectors?
Visual looks good, I know of no other way to check them?

Quote:
Was the EGR valve stuck open or does it sitck?
Egr looks like new. Removed and checked as stated in my first post.
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:56 PM   #7
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1996 SL2
Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenerly
Had NGK now AC.
Amazinghl asked a very pertinent question there. Are those new plugs platinum?

Saturns are notorious for being hard to start with platinum plugs. For some reason, the NGK stock plugs, properly gapped, appear to work much better than higher priced aftermarket alternatives.

Food for thought. I doubt this is the sole source of your starting problems, but it might be a contributor.
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Old 01-10-2005, 12:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

Is the EGR valve it self sticking? The valve in the base when you push it in does it stick either opening or closing?
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Old 01-10-2005, 02:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: 99 Saturn SL2 1.9 Dual Overhead Can with a No start

Quote:
Are those new plugs platinum
I would not put platinum plugs in a go kart.



Quote:
Is the EGR valve it self sticking?
No, the scanner would show an open egr valve btw.
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