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Old 04-06-2017, 02:00 PM   #1
schlitzblue
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Default Camshaft position sensor test

2003 Vue AWD 3.0l

How do I test the camshaft position sensor with a meter? I've tried for continuity across the 3 pins, but I get no beep. I do get a number of 700, but only in continuity mode, not when I'm actually set to test ohms. Any advice?

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Old 04-06-2017, 03:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

What issues are you having that make you suspect that sensor?
These are some resistances I measured on mine . . .
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/att...7&d=1334948836

Last edited by Chazberry; 04-06-2017 at 03:06 PM..

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Old 04-06-2017, 03:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Here's a wiring diagram for the camshaft position sensor. From the service manual; The camshaft position (CMP) sensor is a hall effect switching device that works in conjunction with a single tooth reluctor wheel used to determine the position of the bank 2 exhaust camshaft. The engine control module (ECM) expects the CMP sensor signal to be low, 0 volts, as the single tooth in the reluctor wheel passes the sensor, and high, 12 volts, during the remainder of the reluctor wheel rotation. The ECM supplies a 12-volt pull up voltage on the CMP sensor signal circuit. The ECM expects to see one transition from high to low every two crankshaft revolutions. This signal, when combined with the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor signal, enables the ECM to properly synchronize ignition timing, fuel delivery and knock control. As long as the CKP signal is available, the engine can start and run. The ECM will default to a non-sequential fuel injector operation even if there is no CMP sensor signal. If the ECM detects extra or missing CMP sensor signal transitions within a certain number of crankshaft revolutions, DTC P0341 sets.

Are there any error codes stored? The MIL/CEL/SES light should be on if an error code is generated. As described, P0341 is for a faulty cam sensor and may not affect how the engine runs.

Are there any symptoms that makes you feel the cam sensor failed?
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Old 04-06-2017, 03:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

The car died while driving. Crank but no start. Swapped relays for known good ones and checked all fuses. Replaced what I thought was a bad crankshaft position sensor (had meter on wrong ohm range), pulled fuel line (fuel pumped in to bucket when key turned). I thought the next place to look is the cam position sensor.

Also, a high pitched (electronic?) sound is heard in the area of the sensor after key is turned to run.

I'd like to test the sensor with ohm/volt meter.

I'm doing all of this alone, so any two person checks are out the window... also without a way to parts store.

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Old 04-06-2017, 03:26 PM   #5
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Can you have it scanned for any trouble codes? Fwiw - I was getting all of the CPS codes - wasted about $125 on a new sensor - made no diff. I found that I could disconnect the sensor or pull it out and leave it dangling and the engine still started and ran fine - so I'm not really sure WHAT that sensor does.

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Old 04-06-2017, 04:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

The crank sensor is next to the oil filter housing. The cam sensor is on the cam cover. Which one did you replace?
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Old 04-06-2017, 04:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The crank sensor is next to the oil filter housing. The cam sensor is on the cam cover. Which one did you replace?
I replaced the crankshaft position sensor next to the oil filter housing.

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Old 04-06-2017, 05:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
I replaced the crankshaft position sensor next to the oil filter housing.
The last time I measured mine I got 888 Ohms. When the original went bad it read Meg-Ohms.

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Old 04-06-2017, 06:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazberry View Post
The last time I measured mine I got 888 Ohms. When the original went bad it read Meg-Ohms.
I'm not getting any kind of readings when I test ohms. Checking continuity, I get numbers, but no beep. Another thread said that I should be seeing in the MOhm range. Also, some say the camshaft ps will cause this issue and others say it'll just cause a rough/low mpg ride. I'm pretty confused by the conflicting info I'm getting.

Also, I have no access to a reader. Is there a way to pull codes without one? And it would also be helpful if I had some ether.

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Old 04-06-2017, 06:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
I'm not getting any kind of readings when I test ohms. Checking continuity, I get numbers, but no beep.
What kind of numbers? On 'continuity', you will only get a beep if resistance is close to zero - which would be unlikely on this sensor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
Another thread said that I should be seeing in the MOhm range.
Definitely NOT Meg Ohms on the CKP - something around 1,000 Ohms is normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
Also, some say the camshaft ps will cause this issue and others say it'll just cause a rough/low mpg ride. I'm pretty confused by the conflicting info I'm getting.
The CPS will not cause a 'crank = no start' from my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
Also, I have no access to a reader. Is there a way to pull codes without one? And it would also be helpful if I had some ether.
No - you need a scan tool. Do you happen to have an Android phone? You can get a tool for less than $30 and an App for $5.

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Old 04-06-2017, 06:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

I'm using this tool with the Torque app . . .
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._rd_i=15707381

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Old 04-06-2017, 07:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

That looks very neat and I will be purchasing one soon. My CKP is reading about 800ohm, which is good. My CMP is reading nothing across all pins even with them reversed. When I say 'numbers' I mean exactly that, in continuity mode, I see just numbers (785, no range or even unit being measured) and hear no beep. Should I be able to read any resistance across any of the pins?

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Old 04-06-2017, 07:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
The car died while driving. Crank but no start. Swapped relays for known good ones and checked all fuses. Replaced what I thought was a bad crankshaft position sensor (had meter on wrong ohm range), pulled fuel line (fuel pumped in to bucket when key turned). I thought the next place to look is the cam position sensor.

Also, a high pitched (electronic?) sound is heard in the area of the sensor after key is turned to run.

I'd like to test the sensor with ohm/volt meter..........
My guess is you're barking up the wrong tree by presuming the cam sensor is causing this no start problem. Replacing the crank sensor simply ensures this sensor is outputting timing signals to the ecm. The ecm relies on the crank sensor to; turn on fuel pump, initiate the ignition system for spark and pulse injectors. The car dying while driving and cranking without starting may point to a faulty crank sensor but replacing it hasn't corrected the problem so its neither a crank or cam sensor failure. The cam sensor can fail as the ecm will still operate in degraded condition. If you still have a crank but no start problem, there may be either ignition or fuel issues.

The simplest troubleshooting to do (alone) would be checking for fuel and pressure, at the fuel test valve on the fuel rail. A black plastic cap covers the fuel test valve, similar to tire valves. When ignition is turned on, the ecm turns on the fuel pump for two seconds (timer) if the engine isn't started. Enough time to pressurize the fuel lines - depressing the fuel test valve should result in fuel spraying out with force (cover loosely with a rag). With fuel and pressure checked, spark is next but may be difficult to test as plugs are buried from easy removal with coil packs in the way. Another way to test spark is spraying starting fluid into the throttle body.

Spraying starting fluid eliminates a fuel problem and can test for spark; if the engine runs, spark is generated. If the engine won't fire up on starting fluid, either the engine is flooded where plugs are thoroughly soaked and shorting out high voltage spark or spark isn't generated. Checking fuses should be the first things to do.

The whining may be the throttle actuator - you have a drive by wire system; electronic pedal, electric servo driven throttle and ecm as the control module. The servo motor is driven by electronic pulses to keep throttle in position and may whine if debris coats and blocks throttle plate free movement. An internal return spring prevents free throttle plate movement. With ignition off, throttle plate movement is made forcefully using fingers or wooden stick. With ignition on, throttle plate will not move when pressed by fingers as feedback signals continuously talks to the ecm from position sensors in the throttle actuator to keep throttle in place unless pedal is pressed. Press pedal and throttle is moved in direct proportion to pedal travel - pedal as master, throttle as slave with the ecm interpreting pedal movement to command throttle plate position.

Check to see if throttle needs cleaning. With ignition on, there should not be any electronic whining noises from the throttle servo. If throttle whines, this may be a dirty throttle needing cleaning. Industrial versions of servo motors can twist an arm off in a heart beat and extremely difficult to manually rotate servo motor shafts when powered up. Same circuitry but on an industrial level. The robotics seen in factory assembly lines are examples of computer driven servo motors. Similar small scale versions of servo motors are used in assembly lines for electronics. One servo motor the size of a windshield wiper motor drives throttle plates in dbw systems.

Last edited by fdryer; 04-06-2017 at 07:17 PM..

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Old 04-06-2017, 07:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
Should I be able to read any resistance across any of the pins?
Like fdryer says, I wouldn't focus on this sensor, but back in Post #2 . . .
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/att...7&d=1334948836

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Old 04-06-2017, 07:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

[QUOTE=Chazberry;2237975]Like fdryer says, I wouldn't focus on this sensor, but back in Post #2 . . .



Yeah, I'm getting nothing like that. This is what I was referring to when I said I should get M Ohm range.

When I go pick up the sensor, I'll probably grab some starter fluid too, just in case.

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Old 04-06-2017, 08:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Do you have a 'pick and pull' near you?

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Old 04-07-2017, 11:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazberry View Post
Do you have a 'pick and pull' near you?
The only thing close has two Vues with no engines.

I got some starter fluid in to it, still no start.

Before I go any further in to looking for the no spark, should I be worried about a broken timing belt?

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Old 04-07-2017, 12:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
The only thing close has two Vues with no engines.

I got some starter fluid in to it, still no start.

Before I go any further in to looking for the no spark, should I be worried about a broken timing belt?
The answer is yes, yes I should be worried about that. It's slack under the cover.

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Old 04-07-2017, 12:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzblue View Post
The answer is yes, yes I should be worried about that. It's slack under the cover.
How many miles on this Timing Belt? This sounds very serious.

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Old 04-07-2017, 02:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chazberry View Post
How many miles on this Timing Belt? This sounds very serious.

I have no idea, I've only had it a year.

Are there any good instructions for this on here or anywhere? With pictures?

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