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Old 04-14-2017, 02:04 PM   #1
Deliverydriver
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Default Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Doing the timing on my 93' SL2. Don't know history of car.
I am trying to line up the timing marks before I take the chain off, but something seems wrong. Is the sprocket in the picture flipped? I have not taken the chain off yet. In the current crank position cylinder 1 is not in tdc I stuck something down plug holes to find out. I think number 3 is at tdc at current crank position. Any help would be appreciated.
http://imgur.com/OnvKsz3


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2005 Saab 9-3 2.0t
1993 SL2(bought 11/2015) odometer stopped at 62k, unknown mileage.

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Old 04-14-2017, 02:30 PM   #2
Deliverydriver
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

update. I didn't mean to say the sprocket flipped, but it looks like the timing marks don't line up with the chain. I don't see how this could have happened without destroying the engine. Could this have come from the factory this way? Doesn't look like TC was ever replaced.

...
2005 Saab 9-3 2.0t
1993 SL2(bought 11/2015) odometer stopped at 62k, unknown mileage.

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Old 04-14-2017, 04:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Try rotating the crank a turn or two (or more if necessary) to see if the marks come up in a different position with each revolution. A different number of teeth due to differences in size between the crank and cam sprockets will make the marks not line up every time the crank goes around; but only only one time in a certain number of revolutions.

Just to be certain we are on the same page, I assume that you are expecting the plated (or colored) chain link to land on the mark for the cams and crank.

...
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

It require about 126 complete revolutions to get them lined up, just count the plates between the pip marks on top. Then bring the crank to the point the keyway is at 1200 with pip marks UP and only turn this clockwise or the tensioner will jam in position, broke. Then check the 2 top sprockets position. FORGET THE MARKED PLATES!

There are 9 plates between the cam sprockets INCLUDING the 2 plates over the pip marks.

Close is as good as well used gets.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...ming/cat/12963 <--Looks like this

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Old 04-14-2017, 04:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliverydriver View Post
update. I didn't mean to say the sprocket flipped, but it looks like the timing marks don't line up with the chain. I don't see how this could have happened without destroying the engine. Could this have come from the factory this way? Doesn't look like TC was ever replaced.

Totally normal. Just make sure the alignment marks on the crank sprocket align as well as the marks on the cam sprockets. The marks on the chain just make it easier to install the chain without accidently having slack in it. You'd have to turn the engine over hundreds of times before the chain marks align again. Some chains don't even bother to include these marks.

-Robert

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Old 04-14-2017, 07:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Good number of years since I have done one of these timing chains but if I recall correctly the keyway should be at 12 o'clock not six o'clock.

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Old 04-14-2017, 09:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

And to help with timing a DOHC; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84881. Searching past threads can turn up valuable info long forgotten as many move on. The info is readily available with some patience and searching within these forums.

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Old 04-15-2017, 12:16 AM   #8
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Dizzy Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldNuc View Post
It require about 126 complete revolutions to get them lined up, just count the plates between the pip marks on top. Then bring the crank to the point the keyway is at 1200 with pip marks UP and only turn this clockwise or the tensioner will jam in position, broke. Then check the 2 top sprockets position. FORGET THE MARKED PLATES!

There are 9 plates between the cam sprockets INCLUDING the 2 plates over the pip marks.

Close is as good as well used gets.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/sho...ming/cat/12963 <--Looks like this
How can the tensioner get broken? I am a bit lost. Why would you want to turn the crank counterclockwise with the chain on? Aren't you supposed to turn 90 degrees past tdc, remove chain, rotate the and pin cam sprockets in place, rotate crank back to align marks to tdc, then attach chain guides and tensioner, etc.
So I an a bit lost where during this process one would be tempted to rotate the engine with timing chain and tensioner counter clockwise.... is there something I am missing here?

...
2005 Saab 9-3 2.0t
1993 SL2(bought 11/2015) odometer stopped at 62k, unknown mileage.

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Old 04-15-2017, 12:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
And to help with timing a DOHC; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84881. Searching past threads can turn up valuable info long forgotten as many move on. The info is readily available with some patience and searching within these forums.
The search function leaves a lot to be desired
I thought I read most every good thread about doing the timing . . .

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2005 Saab 9-3 2.0t
1993 SL2(bought 11/2015) odometer stopped at 62k, unknown mileage.

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Old 04-15-2017, 01:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

You're not alone about this site's less than friendly search feature. Blame it on a multibillion dollar search engine (Google) that spoils anyone (me included). Saturnfans, I think, doesn't have talented mega people like Google did in its early years on its way to establishing unparallelled success as a top tier search engine. With no ill will against Saturnfans, its search feature is a large step (more like fall) down compared to Google. My guess is it would take the billion dollar talents of thousands of Google caliber people to arrange a search feature suitable for this place. In other words, it ain't gonna happen so some imagination outside the box is needed to find the info buried around here. I found the link by hopscotching on the suggested tabs on the bottom of this page. No rocket science, just some imagination to look in the past as one clue with timing, model, and year to fine tune manual searches. I'm sure there are more threads like the one I found but this one I posted seems to fit your predicament.

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Old 04-15-2017, 05:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: Timing marks not lined up. Help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliverydriver View Post
How can the tensioner get broken? I am a bit lost. Why would you want to turn the crank counterclockwise with the chain on? Aren't you supposed to turn 90 degrees past tdc, remove chain, rotate the and pin cam sprockets in place, rotate crank back to align marks to tdc, then attach chain guides and tensioner, etc.
So I an a bit lost where during this process one would be tempted to rotate the engine with timing chain and tensioner counter clockwise.... is there something I am missing here?
Saturns burn oil. Running the engine, with oil levels NEAR or BELOW the "ADD" line will prematurely wear out the timing chain tensioner. Ideally, you want to keep your oil level just above the "Full" mark, typically to about the first "L"(about 6-8 ounces above 4.0qts), to accommodate the oil absorbed by your oil filter.

And no, you don't want to turn the engine counter-clockwise(unless you are trying to simulate the 2.2L Scrap-O-Tech Ion engine in its normal, clockwise turning at idle.....)

Ideally, you should only be turning the crankshaft clockwise, to prevent scoring the main bearings. And you can turn the crankshaft as many revolutions as you need to, to line up the crankshaft timing mark. The same with the camshaft. Install them, spin them clockwise(once again, wear patterns and scoring) to line up your timing marks.

Then install your sprockets and chain assembly.

...
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