What's Wrong With Brand Prejudice?

[ThePlainsman]

My thinking on this got started when a few people posted info and pics on the Enclave and talked about it having more standard features, as if that might be a reason to buy an Enclave instead one of the other Lambdas.

I see nothing wrong with brand bias. I'm definitely biased in favor of and against specific brands. I wouldn't care if an Enclave was $5,000 cheaper than an Outlook, I still wouldn't buy an Enclave for no other reason than it being a Buick.

For me, it is in part an image thing. With other brands it's my own perception of reliability or quality. Comparing features and price is a meaningless exercise if the brand totally turns me off. Am I the only person who feels this way?

Nothing in God's green earth could get me to drive a Ford. If I won a free brand new Ford vehicle in a contest, I'd trade it in the next day for a different brand, even if it meant taking a loss (downgrade), or I'd sell it for cash. The brand turns me off, everything from the history of the company and the Ford family to what I view as a dull, middle of the road, law-enforcement, rental car, me-too type of images. Taurus' and Explorers are so ubiquitous it's revolting. It's like seeing millions of people wearing the exact same suit and tie or dress. I can't stand "me-too" and I have a low opinion of the Ford family.

There are other brands that I also disdain. I don't look at GM as a brand. I look at each company within GM as it's own brand. I would never buy an Oldsmobile (when they existed) but I've owned several Chevys and would again. Buicks have an old people image that I find a total turn-off no matter what the vehicle, but I've beent tempted by Pontiacs, the prettiest cars in the GM line, but my perception of their reliability and cheapness is in the toilet, so I've never bought a Pontiac. But I might one day. Buick? No way. Not ever. Old people. Very old people. I onced owned a '93 LeSabre but we inherited it.

Before I bought my Outlook, my perception of Saturn was mixed. I didn't associate Saturns with the elderly but I did associate them with stripped down, boring to drive vehicles that people gravitated too because they were too shy to haggle or were obsessed with geeky safety. Ten years ago I almost bought a Vue but backed off at the last minute. It was just too dull. Too plain. Nice and safe but flat out unexciting. I wanted something with pizzazz as well as utility but affordable to a guy with a middle-class income, so BMW and Mercedes were out.

I happened to be considering a multi-passenger vehicle purchase (more than 5 passengers) but was reluctant to go the minivan route again. Then I heard about the Acadia. I actually went to look at the Acadia and was wowed. But this dealer also happened to own a Saturn dealership right next door. I went over and took a look at the Outlook. I test drove. I thought the Outlook was better looking inside and outside and it had the same engine. Once I knew I could get an Outlook with 19s, HIDs, heated leather, 8-passenger, and a Nav system, it was Outlook all the way. Oh yeah, and after I learned the stupid plastic body thing was gone with the wind.

[beach109]

That's very fair, it's just that having such a viewpoint blocks you from ever acknowledging some really great vehicles over time that you'd love if you weren't prejudiced against them.

Kind of like--and in a very similar way--my mother refusing to ever buy another Chrysler because of her last horrid experience with one (though that's understandable) or completely refusing to even touch a Ford with a 10 foot pole despite the fact that her one brother only buys them, and has never even had a tiny issue, and her other brother is a Ford service tech. She just has a "thing" against them, even though she will acknowledge certain things they do well and are significantly better than the GM's she's stuck on--such as an Expedition just being tremendously better layed out and more user friendly than her beast of a Suburban. She admits to it, but still won't ever come close to buying one.

You buy what you like and fits the budget, and it's usually as simple as that. It's just that sometimes--such as with your preconceived notions of Saturn--you need to have an open mind and give something a chance, just as you did with the Outlook, and love it. But if you still were hung up on the Saturn thing, for instance, you probably would have missed out on a terrific vehicle, even if that did only lead you back to the 90% the same Acadia.

[Tbonedawg08]

i understand what you mean about ford, cuz i don't like them either, but i would take one if i won one. they aren't that bad. i prob wouldn't buy one if i had the choice, but they're ok. both my neighbors have fords, my cuz's husband is a ford rep, and my ex gf's whole family worked at ford, so i know something about them. alltho i like chevy trucks better than ford, you have to admit that their trucks have gotten 100x better than they were 20 years ago.

the focus is still crap tho

[ThePlainsman]

Both of you guys hammered home my point: Friggin' Fords are everywhere. They're plain as a nun's earlobe. I can't stand even looking at them. My next door neighbor has one of those me-too Explorers. He seems like a nice enough guy, but that thing in his driveway is a piece of junk compared to my Outlook.

Half the people we know seem to own a Ford, which is exactly why, like Beach's mom, I would never buy one or accept one for free. I feel the same way about Toyotas. They're everywhere, as are those omnipresent Honda Accords and Civics. But my hatred for Ford is much deeper. I can't stand the Ford family. I don't like anything about them, so I'll be damned if I'm going to drive one of their vehicles. No, I've never worked for the company or attempted to. I don't even know anyone who has ever worked or aspired to work for Ford Motor Company. I just can't stand the whole Ford clan so their cars s-u-c-k as far as I'm concerned.

[VMac]

Originally Posted by ThePlainsman

My thinking on this got started when a few people posted info and pics on the Enclave and talked about it having more standard features, as if that might be a reason to buy an Enclave instead one of the other Lambdas.

Buick? No way. Not ever. Old people. Very old people. I onced owned a '93 LeSabre but we inherited it.

ThePlainsman. You do know Tiger Woods drives a Buick, right?

I'm not a car buff like a lot of folks on this board. I think over time, all the manufacturers have to build attractive, better cars or the companies will disappear, the competition is just too intense. So a brand you didn't like 15 years ago may have undergone a huge transformation in the interim.

Personally, I like the looks of the Enclave but my wife much preferred the Outlook. I like the Outlook better than the Acadia.

Despite what I wrote, I will now cement your point for you.
I turned 60 a couple of days ago.

[mioutlook]

There's nothing wrong with brand prejudice I guess. I'm guilty of it, too. One of my friends is an engineer at GM and did some work at the Delta plant. I first saw an Acadia tooling around in early October and thought it looked pretty good. She kept telling me to check out the Enclave but all I could think was "it's a &^%*!#$ Buick! (I also knew that for the meantime they would be similar vehicle in many ways)

Then I took a look at the Outlook. I honestly think it looks better, but on occasion I still catch myself wondering "I drive a Saturn?" If I ever catch an idiot knocking my Outlook to see if it has plastic body panels I will not be happy.

For the longest time we were a Honda camp with GM trucks. I live in a Ford town and I simply don't like their vehicles. That said, my mother recently purchased a Ford Escape. I hate the way it looks but I actually recommending that she check one out because her main concern was being comfortable with the size of the vehicle and the view out over the dash - she's a little bit on the short side. Besides a BMW x3, this was the only vehicle that really fit her. She did try out my Outlook and although she could get a comfortable driving position she was not comfortable with the size of the vehicle.

We stopped buying Honda because our experience has shown their quality to be declining in relationship to everyone else. I gave Saturn my money because I looked around and I thought this vehicle was my best fit and didn't seem as cheap as my prejudice suggested.

[ThePlainsman]

Let me try to explain my brand prejudice with an easier to understand example: To me, cars are like politics. I'm willing to bet that most of the people on this board would never vote for the candidate for president of the the USA if he/she was a member of a certain political party. Am I right?

I'm willing to bet that 80% of the people on this board will shun a whichever of the two major political parties they can't stand. Well, I feel the same way about certain car brands. With certain brands there is nothing that can be done to get my to vote, er buy one. Ford is at the top of the list. Generations of my family have despised Fords and there isn't anything that can change that.

[mioutlook]

I see what you're getting at ThePlainsman. If for whatever reason I really hated Ford I would not have recommended a Ford vehicle to my mother - even if presented with technical/financial reasons to change my mind.

In terms of car companies my thoughts are generally not that strong. I might dismiss a brand initially but if I notice something even mildly interesting I'll take a better look. Admittedly - I never seriously looked at Kia/Hyundai. Sure, they may be less expensive and may have decent design but something doesn't sit well with me in terms of their brand image. In see nothing wrong with that.

I do have other things like politics that I have strong beliefs about and my openness to negotiation may be little or non-existent.

[SV Bluestone]

Here's another Ford visual....my office partner and I both ordered new vehicles about the same time back in January. His choice was the new Ford Edge, with lots of bells and whistles (at least as many as Ford could manage...and it only seats 5). Mine was an Outlook XR, 8-passenger, White Diamond with tan leather, dual sunroofs and other goodies. Comparable out-the-door prices of around 34k....

We both took delivery 2 weeks ago, and parked in our regular spaces.

He really, really tried to keep a straight face. But...it was crushing. You could just tell.

[ThePlainsman]

Originally Posted by SV Bluestone

Here's another Ford visual....my office partner and I both ordered new vehicles about the same time back in January. His choice was the new Ford Edge, with lots of bells and whistles (at least as many as Ford could manage...and it only seats 5). Mine was an Outlook XR, 8-passenger, White Diamond with tan leather, dual sunroofs and other goodies. Comparable out-the-door prices of around 34k....

We both took delivery 2 weeks ago, and parked in our regular spaces.

He really, really tried to keep a straight face. But...it was crushing. You could just tell.

Great story! In video gaming your partner might be described as a "fanboy." He's going to go Ford no matter how illogical and dumb. Right now he's probably pissed off at Ford for producing something clearly inferior to Saturn's product. Instead, he should be pissed off at himself.

[Tbonedawg08]

i can't remember what mag it was in, but they said that the owner of ford(whoever it was in the 70's) "stole" the name King of the Road (KR) from chevrolet. chevrolet was gonna make a corvette king of the road, but instead, those jack***s learned about it and decided it sounded better on a shelby mustang...btw, they are bringing back the Shelby Mustang GT500 KR...

it may have been motortrend...
i wasn't aware of this. i know you gotta do what you gotta do in big business, but he copywrote the name the same week chevy was gonna do it. that's just plain wrong...plus, i bet the king of the road corvette would WHOOP a KR mustang

[Loveit2]

Brand Prejudice.I also have it. Anything foreign.
Will not buy one
Will not ride in one
Will not allow one in my driveway!!!

[mchappell]

Define 'foreign'.

Is it the Honda built in Ohio? The Toyota built in Indiana? What about the Ford built in Canada? How about the Chevy built in Mexico? What about the Chrysler owned by a German company (though not for much longer)? How about the Jaguar owned by Ford? I think the definition of 'import' has become pretty muddied over the last decade or two.

When I've shopped for cars over the past couple of years, I do try to look at things that are built (assembled?) here (seems like I'm becoming more Republican as I get older ). It essentially comes down to what's best for me and my family. However, the only non-US built vehicle that I've come close to purchasing in the last 17 years is the CX-9, but bought the Outlook.

Mark

[BrightOutlook]

Originally Posted by mchappell

Define 'foreign'.

A vehicle is Foreign if the PROFIT goes to a company in another country.

[mchappell]

OK, but is that inherently 'bad'?

I assume that the North American subsidiaries of the foreign makes are expected to be profitable. I would also assume that the folks who work for the subsidiaries are also compensated directly and indirectly (e.g. profit sharing, 401(k) matching). I would further assume that much of this compensation is put back into the economy via purchasing and investing. So, much of the 'profit' stays here. Do the North American subsidiaries periodically box up the 'profit' and FedEx it to HQ?

By this definition, Chrysler is a foreign make. Many of these foreign makes take those profits and reinvest them here by building new plants. I don't have any stats to back this up, but it seems as if the foreign makes are opening new plants here, while the big 3 (or, 2, since Chrysler isn't domestic) are closing plants, reducing capacity, or moving production elsewhere (even Mexico and Canada). Is it 'bad' that the foreign makes are employing the factory workers, truck drivers, designers, sales people, technicians, and all of the various support personnel?

I believe it's too simplistic to simply say 'buy American'. It's just too fuzzy.

Mark

[Loveit2]

Originally Posted by mchappell

Define 'foreign'.

Is it the Honda built in Ohio? The Toyota built in Indiana? What about the Ford built in Canada? How about the Chevy built in Mexico? What about the Chrysler owned by a German company (though not for much longer)? How about the Jaguar owned by Ford? I think the definition of 'import' has become pretty muddied over the last decade or two.

When I've shopped for cars over the past couple of years, I do try to look at things that are built (assembled?) here (seems like I'm becoming more Republican as I get older ). It essentially comes down to what's best for me and my family. However, the only non-US built vehicle that I've come close to purchasing in the last 17 years is the CX-9, but bought the Outlook.

Mark

Since you need a definition I will help you out
Foreign= Located away from one's native country. If you need any more help let me Know
To help even more I only buy UNION made

[mikedege]

Originally Posted by BrightOutlook

A vehicle is Foreign if the PROFIT goes to a company in another country.

The profits may go to a foreign company, but the employment goes to Americans. Can you say that about the American carmakers cars that are built in differnt countrys?

As Far as im concerned, i buy what i feel is the car best suited for me. I dont worry about who owns the company who built it. I bought the outlook soley based on needs, not on who manufactured it.

imo, Mike

[mchappell]

Thanks for the literal definition of 'foreign'.

I guess I'll be more specific: Define 'foreign make of automobile'. I thought my questions stated previously were straight-forward. Is a Honda Accord 'foreign'? After all, it's built in Ohio. Is a Ford Crown Vic foreign? After all, it's built in Canada. Are Chryslers foreign? After all, they (up until today) are owned by a German company.

Mark

[Loveit2]

Originally Posted by mchappell

Thanks for the literal definition of 'foreign'.

I guess I'll be more specific: Define 'foreign make of automobile'. I thought my questions stated previously were straight-forward. Is a Honda Accord 'foreign'? After all, it's built in Ohio. Is a Ford Crown Vic foreign? After all, it's built in Canada. Are Chryslers foreign? After all, they (up until today) are owned by a German company.

Mark

I guess you just don't get it as I thought my answer was adequate for an average person or is it you are a person that likes to argue about nothing

[mikedege]

To help even more I only buy UNION made

Please dont take this the wrong way. Altho, I completely understand supporting unions, and the american worker. I feel unions are actually hurting the american worker, because it is making it harder and harder for the US automakers to compete. Thus costing americans jobs. We could always force unions onto the foreign automakers built here in the US also. But that would just make it even worse. It would raise prices on everything and hurt everybody even more than they already are. Unfortunately, not everbody can afford to pay more, just to support the US employee's.

In short, I personally feel the Union is the #1 reason the US automakers are in the trouble they are in.

imo, Mike