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Old 09-30-2020, 08:58 AM   #41
Designie
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2006 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

The current codes I am getting are:

P0386 Crankshaft Position Sensor B Circuit Range/Performance
P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Same as always, started the car and had to hold the revs at around 3k, and it would still die. Then restart. As soon as temp gage gets right past the second mark, runs perfect. Took for a drive around the block a few times and let it idle a bunch. I let it run for about an hour and a half total.

To review, if it was mechanical i.e. belt out of timing, I don't know why it would run fine once warm. I am probably going to tear it back down and recheck the timing belt install since the new water pump and timing belt was the start of the issue.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:15 PM   #42
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Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

I need to get a scanner that supports live data so you can see if the crank and cam sensors are actually reading if anything.
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:33 PM   #43
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Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

Good luck trying to find a reader or scantool to display crank or cam sensor signals. Analog and digital signals are used in EFI systems to muddle the overall picture of how OBD readers display live data. The reason some signals are displayed and others aren't may lie with engineering determining which ones are (easily?) displayed and others not. My understanding is every sensor outputs analog voltages. Either the engine computer uses analog signals directly or converts it to digital for input processing to manage the EFI system. Crank sensors output variable ac signals that appear as spikes when viewed on an oscilloscope. The spikes vary in voltage and frequency since engine rpm varies. Since crank sensor signals are the electronic heart beat of engine computers, losing it basically kills the engine computer, the EFI system drops dead. Displaying crank sensor signals may be misleading if one isn't prepared to interpret wild signals. The error code exists but when a crank sensor fails, the engine computer dies immediately. The engine computer generates error codes. If the engine computer dies then error codes aren't generated. A conundrum proven by every S-series crank sensor failure - no error code.

My personal intermittent crank sensor scenario occurred before acquiring two different scantools. Members here describing their symptoms prepared me for my faulty sensor to make a quick assessment and repair to drive home the same day. Whether an error code existed or not, it didn't matter with prior knowledge and a multimeter in my glove box.
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Old 10-05-2020, 12:39 AM   #44
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Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

Live data for cam and crank sensor output signals are part of the OBD2 specification. Viewing the data is one of the steps in diagnosing DTC P0336 as per the document posted by Far2grumpy.

You just need a reader that shows live data. Some very low cost options are available now.

https://www.amazon.ca/AP200-Bluetoot.../dp/B07QD4GZW4

Live data will show an interruption in the crank or cam signal data graph, the problem may be the sensor, the wiring or the PCM.
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Old 10-06-2020, 05:02 PM   #45
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2006 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

OK, so you know how I said I checked timing? Well, maybe not as well as I thought??? Hopefully, everyone will answer with a resounding YES as to whether this would make it run rough when cold.

The pics show the cam marks and then the crank mark. It's definitively off the mark. BUT!!!!! If I moved it one tooth it appears it will be ever so slightly to the left of the mark now. But not as much as it is to the right currently.

I'm thrilled to finally see that this could be it.......
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:25 AM   #46
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Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

I'm very surprised that it would only run rough when cold. Hopefully you found the issue.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:13 PM   #47
Designie
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2006 VUE Red Line
Default Re: 06 Redline will not run/idle while cold

Well, it worked!!! Thankfully, moving the timing belt the one tooth on the crank sprocket solved the issue. Started up cold and ran like a top. It's hard to believe that one little bit of movement caused all of that. When I first installed the belt, I must not have paid attention to the tension side of the crank pulley and when I released the tensioner it must have taken up the slack and then the gear was not where it was supposed to be.

RobertGary1, I should've been more thorough when you asked about it being off a tooth.

I watched a Youtube video last night of a guy fixing a Honda Accord with the same motor. The person brought the car in because of misfiring and running bad. When he checked the timing marks, the crank pointer was in the exact same position as mine, so that gave me hope.

So I guess let this thread be a lesson about checking, re-checking and checking again your timing marks before you put your engine back together.

Thanks for all the help everyone! Now who wants to buy a Saturn Vue Redline???

Ron
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