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Old 09-15-2004, 05:22 PM   #41
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Idea

Initially I tried to use a lighted switch with three terminals for my manual fan switch, but it didn't work the right way. Either it lit up all the time or it lit up when the fan was off - backward from my intention.

So for my manual radiator fan switch, I ended up using a simple two terminal switch. The new wire runs from the grounding side of the existing relay for the fan to one side of my switch and then another new wire runs to a grounding point. Simple.

But, I wanted a light to come on indicating the fan is running. So I added an LED! Again, there are two terminals - well, two wires in this case. The positive wire for the LED runs to the cigarette lighter where it gets power, and the negative wire for the LED runs to the new fan switch connecting to the switch terminal where the new wire runs from the existing relay. So when I "turn on" my fan by means of my switch, the switch is providing a ground for the existing fan relay and for the new LED at the same time.

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-15-2004, 05:30 PM   #42
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Attention

Quote:
Originally posted by David 93 SL2m
So I added an LED!
I forgot to mention that I added a LED with a built in resistor. This is important. If anybody does use an LED, make sure it either has a built in resistor or wire in your own resistor. The LED I chose to use with a built in resistor is from Radio Shack, catalog number 276-270.

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-15-2004, 07:38 PM   #43
bigbird
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12V DC will fry an LED. Any resistor between 500 and 1k ohm will do the job. Put the resistor in series with the cathode (short leg) of the LED.

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Old 09-15-2004, 07:45 PM   #44
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Happy

Maybe this will help?



The things I drew with a black pen are already on our S-Series cars. The things I drew with a red pen are Wolfman's modifications. The things I drew with a blue pen are my additions with the LED.

Quick explanations.

1) Before we start modifying our car, the only way the radiator cooling fan will come on is when the PCM (car's computer) tells it to come on. A relay is an eletrical switch, usually functioning by means of an electromagnet. A low current control wire goes from a power source to the coil of the relay and then to the PCM which decides if the circuit should be completed by providing a ground. The coil is appropriately named because when electricity flows through a coiled up wire it produces a magnetic field. When the PCM is not grounding the wire for the coil, no low current is flowing across the coil of the relay and the relay is switched open. When the PCM grounds that wire, current flows across the coil of the relay. That makes a magnetic field and affects the "switch" of the relay and the relay "closes" meaning it completes another circuit and allows high current to flow to whatever needs power - in this case it is the fan. When the PCM wants to turn off the fan, it opens the circuit by "ungrounding" the low power wire from the coil of the relay and the relay switches back open, stopping the flow of high current to the fan.

2) Wolfman's modification is to basically add another wire between the grounding side of the relay's coil to a grounding point, which triggers the relay. The easiest point to do this is at the proper terminal of the relay itself. If we ran a wire straight from that point where the relay plugs into the fuse box to a grounding point then the fan would run all the time. So to control that we include a switch along our new wire. Now the fan will come on when the PCM provides a ground for the coil of the relay or when our switch provides a ground for the coil of the relay.

3) My small modification is to add a light to show us when the relay has switched open and the fan is running. The LED only allows current to flow in one direction! It is important to use a LED with a built-in resistor or we need to add our own resistor. (In case anybody is curious, with incandescent bulbs the base of the bulb serves as a resistor.) We can provide current to the LED by tapping the orange wire for the cigarette lighter because that wire is hot all the time. Of course before working with this wire we should make sure that there isn't any electricity flowing in that wire! Okay, so we run a new wire between the orange wire of the cigarette lighter and the positive wire of the LED. Halfway done. Now if we were to attach another new wire to the negative wire of the LED to a grounding point then the LED would be on all the time the cigarette lighter has power. But we want it to come on and off in tandem with the fan. So to do that we want the LED to get grounded when the coil of the fan's relay is grounded. The easiest way to do this is to use the switch that we use when following Wolfman's directions. In my diagram we can see that attaching the new wire from the negative side to the "positive" side of the new switch will get the job done. We could attach it anywhere between the grounding side of the relay and the new switch. Again going for simplicity, it is easiest to do this at the switch itself. Now when we use the switch to turn the fan on, we are providing a ground for the coil of the fan's relay as well as for the LED.

I hope this makes sense...

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-18-2004, 09:40 AM   #45
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by David 93 SL2m
I forgot to mention that I added a LED with a built in resistor. This is important. If anybody does use an LED, make sure it either has a built in resistor or wire in your own resistor. The LED I chose to use with a built in resistor is from Radio Shack, catalog number 276-270.
Quote:
Originally posted by bigbird
12V DC will fry an LED. Any resistor between 500 and 1k ohm will do the job. Put the resistor in series with the cathode (short leg) of the LED.
The LED I used is for 12 VDC, draws only 15 mA, has a built-in resistor, needs a 9/32 inch (7.14375 mm) mounting hole, and costs $2 (USD). Later I will post a picture of my switch and LED installed in my 1993 SL2. Here is a scan of the package from the LED that I used:

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-18-2004, 11:04 AM   #46
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David, that is an awesome idea. As soon as I got through your second paragraph, I knew exactly what you were referring to.

It's also cool because I just ordered more 12V LEDs from superbrightLEDs.com again and I will have some left over. The ones I'm getting have in-line resistors, so this will be a simple job!

Thanks again!

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-18-2004, 11:10 AM   #47
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....I just hope I don't have to move that confounded HVAC unit to get at the orange cigarette lighter wire!! I really despise that HVAC unit. Saturn didn't design it to be easily removed!

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-18-2004, 01:07 PM   #48
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2007 ION-3 Sedan
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Quote:
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
It's also cool because I just ordered more 12V LEDs from superbrightLEDs.com again and I will have some left over. The ones I'm getting have in-line resistors, so this will be a simple job!
Yes, I used SuperBrightLEDs for the LEDs in my instrument panel and HVAC controls. These LEDs are sort of three dimensional...

...whereas the LED I chose at Radio Shack is two dimensional - it is sort of flat when mounted...

The chrome ring near the end away from the wires is a nut and some sort of ring washer. After we drill a small hole for the LED, we remove the nut and washer, we insert the LED into our hole from the front side, we place the washer and nut on the backside, and make it finger tight. Hmmm, maybe the washer goes on the front side? Before doing this you might want to first solder on some longer wires to the existing wires. Since these LEDs don't draw much current it is okay to use thin high-gauge wire. By the way Radio Shack sells these in a few colors: red (catalog number 276-270), green (catalog number 276-271), and orange (catalog number 276-272).
Quote:
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
....I just hope I don't have to move that confounded HVAC unit to get at the orange cigarette lighter wire!! I really despise that HVAC unit. Saturn didn't design it to be easily removed!
No, accesing the orange wire for the cigarette lighter is easy. Remove the panel on the lower left side of the center console thing - the door that is the "mirror twin" of the passenger compartment fuse/relay door - and you'll notice it. The orange wire might be wrapped in black electrical tape with a few other wires. I can't remember and my car is on the road at the moment. Just remember that the orange wire is "hot" even when our key is not in the ignition...

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-18-2004, 08:39 PM   #49
David 93 SL2m
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2007 ION-3 Sedan
Happy

Here is a picture of the orange wire for the cigarette lighter. We can easily access it after taking off the panel for the side of the center console, removing some of the electrical tape covering the group of wires, and gently moving the orange wire away from the other wires in the group.


Here is a picture of my manual radiator cooling fan switch and the LED that indicates when the fan is running.


Both pictures are actually hyperlinks to larger versions of the same pictures. Click either picture to make it bigger.

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-19-2004, 02:30 PM   #50
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I'm assuming the picture uploading for this site is now fixed? I just took a ton of pics on the install of my switch that I'd like to post here soon.

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-19-2004, 05:13 PM   #51
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1996 SL2
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
I'm assuming the picture uploading for this site is now fixed?
Not yet.

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Old 09-25-2004, 10:38 AM   #52
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Default .

test

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-25-2004, 11:52 PM   #53
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I just did mine today..was easy. I used a switch without the light, didnt see the need for a lit one for this...i mounted the switch on the small plastic piece under the center radio thing that u can take out...the empty space in the pic above...it looks real good for usin a poket knife to cut the hole...

...
Im not crazy, just bored...
http://www.cardomain.com/id/the_skin_eater ---Chek it out.

All my time goes to the Talon...My girlfriend is jealous. But my car is jealous that I sleep with her...

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Old 09-26-2004, 10:48 AM   #54
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Default pics, maybe.....

manual fan wire connected at the relay:



wire coming from the UHJB:




fan wire wire-tied to the main UHJB cable under the hood:



wire going through the firewall in the grommet that holds the main UHJB cable:



wire coming down the firewall on the inside of the car behind the clutch pedal:


...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-26-2004, 10:50 AM   #55
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running parallel to my shift cables under the radio/HVAC area:



the excess length of wires ties up to ton eof the metal frames:



the manual radiator fan switch:


...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-26-2004, 10:55 AM   #56
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I should note that the wire going to ground is not pictured. It is underneath the passenger's kick panel where the fuses are. It is connected to the frame exactly opposite of the one you see in the wires_tied picture.

I just drilled a hole in the metal and used an electrical terminal connector to connect the wire to the frame.

To get the wire through the firewall, I duct taped it to a metal coat hanger and just pushed it through. It came through about 12 inches above the clutch switch, so I just used small pieces of duct tape to keep it out of the way of annything moving (clutch switch, pedal, etc....)

This thing just works, it's almost Mac-like!

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-26-2004, 11:38 AM   #57
David 93 SL2m
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2004 VUE 2.2L
2007 ION-3 Sedan
Thumbs Up re: pics, maybe.....

94SL2withphone's pictures are great.

My manual fan switch setup looks exactly the same with a few very, very minor differences:
  • I used a different switch.
  • I drilled a hole in the side of the cover of the fuse/relay box, threaded the new wire through the new hole, and then put the end of the new wire into the apropriate slot for existing relay (the one closest to the bolt). Inside the box I left about 1 foot of the new wire so when I remove the cover of the fuse/relay box it can be moved easily to the top of the battery. Making and using this new hole allows the cover of the fuse/relay box to close all the way and not "crush" our new wire.
  • For grounding my new wire, I soldered a spade connector to the end of the wire. Then I loosened a bolt in the left side of the "H" frame thing that was already grounding something (the radio?), slipped my spade connector for the new wire into place, then tightened the bolt again.

...
Current
∙ 2004 VUE 124K
∙ 2007 ION3 112K
...
Past
∙ 1993 SL2 212K
∙ 1993 SC2 140K
∙ 1996 SC2 157K
∙ 1996 SC2 126K
∙ 2001 SC2, 145K
∙ 2002 L200 20K
∙ 2002 SL1 129K
...

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Old 09-26-2004, 04:59 PM   #58
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^^thats how i grounded mine...xcept i didnt have any way of crimpin or sadering so i just remover the bolt and stuk it in between

...
Im not crazy, just bored...
http://www.cardomain.com/id/the_skin_eater ---Chek it out.

All my time goes to the Talon...My girlfriend is jealous. But my car is jealous that I sleep with her...

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Old 09-27-2004, 07:43 PM   #59
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you should really solder if you can.

I just soldered a cheap spade lug terminal to the wire, then ran a bolt through the terminal and connected it to ground. It's a good, solid connection to the metal and is well worth it!

Besides, soldering irons and solder is dirt cheap, even at Radio Shack you'll spend less than $20.00 . Instructions for soldering the CORRECT way can be found online and to tell you the truth it's really easy. I taught myself in 6th grade!

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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Old 09-27-2004, 07:47 PM   #60
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oh yeah, the wire running underneath the UHJB fuse box doesn't really get crushed too much. Plastic on plastic and that sort of thing. Also the wire gauge is so small (22 AWG) that it's almost a non-issue.

If I get really bored one day, I'll take my Dremel to it, but that's if I have NOTHING to do that day, which rarely ever happens!

...
1996 Dodge Avenger ES: 2.5L V6

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