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Old 08-12-2003, 05:36 PM   #1
Bigbadbert
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Default Removing bolts in dog bone mounts

OK, I don't need instructions on how to install. I just need to know how in the hell you get those bolts out. I tried and tried to get those damn things out, to no avail. I broke two adapters for my socket wrench. Theres no room around the bottom one to try and get any leverage, because im small and have to put all my weight into it, otherwise I wind up hurting myself, which I did, alot. I tried wd-40, but that was a waste. Any thing anybody can tell me that will help to get them off and still allow them to be reusable, I would GREATLY appreciate.
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Old 08-12-2003, 06:04 PM   #2
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Have you tried a big manly breaker bar with 6-point sockets? Worked for me.
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Old 08-12-2003, 08:05 PM   #3
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might be a dumb question...but u never know....are ya turnin the bolts the right way?
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Old 08-12-2003, 08:28 PM   #4
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An impact wrench will loosen them right up. You can buy hammer powered ones. Put the socket on 1 end, make sure it's an impact socket (They are black in color). Stick it on the nut, and smack away. Once it's loose use a standard socket.

Of course the air powerd ones work much faster.
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Old 08-13-2003, 03:48 AM   #5
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LOL. Yeah, actually as dumb as it sounds, I was turning them the wrong way, at first. But even turning them the right way netted 0 success. Like I was saying theres little room to negotiate the stupid rachet. My dad found his impact wrench today while I was at work (thank GOD!) so I will be trying that tomorrow. Wish I woulda known he had that thing earlier today....stupid foreign tools suck ass. Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 08-13-2003, 09:06 AM   #6
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Old 08-13-2003, 03:01 PM   #7
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Yeah I know, Im a retard eric. I tried agian to take them off today, and instead of being smart and making sure I had everything I need, I took it off then realized I dont have the impact wrench sockets, which my dad failed to mention where they are. SO, I guess Ill be trying AGAIN, to do it tomorrow. Ever get that feeling where you just wanna break stuff?
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Old 08-13-2003, 03:14 PM   #8
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A regular socket might work if the bolts are not too tight. You might break the socket.
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:06 AM   #9
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No they are WAAY too tight, already tried. I tried again tonight, with the impact wrench, after buying 14 and 15mm 1/2" drive sockets, but not doing as I should have, I didnt buy a 13, which is what I need. I will be damned if I dont have the worst possible luck when it comes to this stuff. I WILL have these on by tomorrow, or bad things will happen.
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Old 08-14-2003, 12:54 AM   #10
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Don't get discouraged if it doesn't loosen up right away. I had an older car that I was removing a suspension bolt on. I had to let the impact hammer at it for almost 2 minutes. It finally came off.
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Old 08-14-2003, 02:38 PM   #11
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Those things ARE on tight. I had a helluva time getting mine off, even with air tools! (I'm spoiled. I get to use all the tools at my husband's work.)

All I can say, is good luck. Oh, and do the bottom mount from the bottom, and the top mount from the top. I made the mistake of doing the top mount while the car was on the lift, then we brought it down and was like, boy, am I dumb. The mount was like right there, easily accessible from the top.
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Old 08-16-2003, 12:51 AM   #12
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Alright, they are on, FINALLY. I had a tough time getting the bottom one out of their after the bolts came out. To anyone who might try doing this anytime soon, word of advice. Jack up the car from the oil pan as most would say, and also jack up the hub assembly as far as you can, to get clearance from the damned cv boot. Turning the wheels all the way to the left helps also. With a little elbow grease I finally managed to squeeze it out. The car is rougher at idle by a little, but alot at low rpms. I did notice it felt a little torquier, if thats a word. Peels out easier anyways. Thanks to everyone for helping me out. Now all I need is to take it to the track and see how much of a difference it might of made.
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Old 08-16-2003, 10:52 AM   #13
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when you say "jack up the hub assembly" do you mean to put the jack under the brake rotor, or under the steering knuckle?

just want to be sure, as I will be attempting this pretty soon. My uncle has an air ratchet, I guess I may have to borrow his.

Also, is your car manual or auto? I was wondering about the vibrations at idle, too, but I just leave the car in neutral any time I'm stopped. All idle vibrations I've heard of is when you leave the car in gear at a stop, and it's usually with auto. cars.
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Old 08-16-2003, 12:23 PM   #14
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Yes, "jack up the hub assembly" threw a curve ball to me also. I have been sitting on my Twistec dogbones for several weeks and was thinking about trying to swap them in today!
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Old 08-16-2003, 02:34 PM   #15
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David, if you do these dogbones, and you are successful, let me know what methods you used.

I also have a set waiting to go in. Actually I'm waiting for the heat and humidity to go down and I'm waiting to get a good floorjack and jackstands.
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Old 08-16-2003, 09:23 PM   #16
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If you have access to an impact gun (air or electric) then this job is a snap.

No impact gun? No Problem. Just make sure you jack the car up at least a foot, and have a good assortment of extensions, and a long handled ratchet.

Jack up the car and remove the right fron wheel and splash shield.

support the oil pan with a floor jack (use a block of wood to prevent pan damage) and remove the 5 nuts securing the upper engine mount (torque axis mount).

slowly jack up the engine by the pan until you can remove the upper mount.

two ways to proceed from here:

1) remove the two through bolts (different sizes- put them back in the same place) securing the dog-bone, jack up the engine, and wiggle the mount out, and wiggle the new one in.

2) lower the engine, remove the four 13mm bolts that secures the dog-bone bracket to the block, remove the lower dog-bone bolt, and then remove the bracket an dogbone together. Much less wiggling.

Reassembly - reverse the above
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Old 08-16-2003, 10:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
David, if you do these dogbones, and you are successful, let me know what methods you used.

I also have a set waiting to go in. Actually I'm waiting for the heat and humidity to go down and I'm waiting to get a good floorjack and jackstands.
I did the dogbones! After finishing up with my alternator swap I installed the pair of Twistec motor mounts. Yes, I was successful. For the most part I followed the instructions at SPS since they have the bolt sizes and torque amounts specified. Their instructions are actually very good.

The advice that I can add:
  • Use a breaker bar to get these darn bolts loose! They are on really tightly. A breaker bar is like a socket wrench with a really long handle. I've seen them as two types: racheting and non-racheting.
  • I had the same issues as Bigbadbert when I tried to get the lower mount out. There really isn't much room to wiggle it to get it to come out. So I followed what Bigbadbert mentioned with the "jack up the hub assembly" statement: I placed my hydraulic jack under the lowest part of the wheel area. Not the rotor, but the thing behind it that sort of looks like an elbow and is in line with the strut. As I slowly jacked at this point the strut and spring compressed and the accordion-looking rubber thing (that we try not to drip oil onto when changing the filter) moved just enough out of the way to let me get the original lower motor mount to come out. Then I slowly lowered this jack so the strut and spring would expand again.
  • Since my car was on jackstands, I used a 6" by 6" block of wood about 3 feet long to place my Saturn jack onto to raise the engine 1" or so. Yes, I had a small chunk of wood above the jack so the jack would not touch the oil pan and the pressure would be spread out over a larger area. My chunk of wood for this is a 2" by 4" about 6" long. I have the "El-Cheapo" strut tower brace so I had to disconnect it from one of the brackets to allow the engine to rise a bit.
  • When I did the other motor mount by the battery I had clearance issues. Not with getting the old mount out, but with finding room for my socket wrench to rachet back and forth. So I used an extension for my socket wrench and that was the perfect length because it allowed me to rachet the socket wrench back toward the firewall by letting it squeeze into the small space between the upper radiator hose and the side of the battery cover. Again, I had to use my breaker bar for loosening this mount as well but it was difficult because mine does not rachet and space is tight. So I quickly gave up on that and used my 1/2" drive socket wrench.
Afterward I gave my car a test drive and found that there is much more vibration at idle and at low RPMs, just like Bigbadbert experienced. It was hard to say if the car felt more responsive. I guess driving it more than 2 miles up and down the street will let me figure that one out.

Here are two pictures that I took right after getting each of the Twistec motor mounts into place.

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Old 08-16-2003, 11:20 PM   #18
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Yeah David, that part about jacking up the hub or whatever that you did was exactly what I did. It was the only way I could get that thing out. My lower one was starting to corrode, due to the fact that coolant has been leaking from my water pump apparently, and got on it. Getting the new ones in is easier than getting the old ones out, I think. Just line up the holes and then youre set. Good outline on the process...hopefully that will help some ppl out.
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Old 08-17-2003, 01:52 AM   #19
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Thank you very much David. I can now attempt this project on my car. Preivously, I hadn't seen any pictures anywhere, so now I can visualize it in my head as to what it should look like when done.

Be sure to post back on how those new mounts feel. I know I should get some improvement when I do mine, because I won't be waiting for the clutch to engage when my foot is already off the pedal; though my clutch is probably already toast after 197,000 miles.

Thanks a bunch!
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Old 08-18-2003, 10:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigbadbert
The car is rougher at idle by a little, but alot at low rpms. I did notice it felt a little torquier, if thats a word. Peels out easier anyways.
Quote:
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
Be sure to post back on how those new mounts feel.
Well, so far I am a tiny bit disappointed because I am getting the same effects as Bigbadbert.

When my engine is idling the car is a little rougher than with the old OEM mounts. The steering wheel shakes a bit and it sort of feels like the upper motor mount (a.k.a. the torque axis mount) needs to be replaced. For the record I replaced that 4 months ago.

When my engine is above 2,000 RPMs the car is slightly rougher than with the old OEM mounts. But it is not so bad that it makes driving the car unpleasant.

However, when the engine RPMs are low such as between idle speeds and 2,000 RPMs, the engine is very rough. Usually this is when I'm accelerating, in particular right after I've released the clutch. The roughness, shaking, vibration, and the noise of things in the car due to all of this is almost unacceptable. It is the same sensation we'd get by upshifting the gears and releasing the clutch too quickly and/or not giving the engine enough gas.

Maybe the new Twistecs need to be "broken in?"

If this roughness does not improve within 2 weeks then I'll try swapping the Twistecs into my other Saturn S-Series car. But if the roughness is just as bad - or worse - then I might be posting them in the Classifieds....

P.S. Check this out: SaturnFans Classifieds: Twistec Dog Bones
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