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Old 12-20-2017, 03:56 AM   #21
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by dssl1 View Post

Do I get a different fan blade or a different motor? And is this why Saturn Night recommended an entire used cooling fan assembly from a junkyard over just a new motor? All the 2001 SL1 cooling fan motors I see online have the larger output shaft.

Luckily this happened at the right time of year where I don't need to use my AC and it isn't overheating anymore, but I need to get this fixed before winters over. At least removing the fan blade and old motor allows for a little more passive cooling, heh.
Luckily, it is winter and you don't have to worry about overheating right now. And to answer your question, yes, this is why I suggested a used fan assembly from a local wrecking yard.

I don't know all the reasons behind the issues, we as Saturn owners face, but for some reason I had a similar experience with my emergency brake cable replacement. The Dorman replacement brackets, cables, and even the rubber sealing boots were all over sized, and I had to reuse my old brackets and snag a couple of sealing boots at a local yard.

Aftermarket parts can sometimes run into these issues. The fan blade will likely need to be pressed onto the output shaft with a press assembly, if there is no keyway machined into the shaft for keeping the blade in place.

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Old 12-20-2017, 12:33 PM   #22
dssl1
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Wrench Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Luckily, it is winter and you don't have to worry about overheating right now. And to answer your question, yes, this is why I suggested a used fan assembly from a local wrecking yard.

I don't know all the reasons behind the issues, we as Saturn owners face, but for some reason I had a similar experience with my emergency brake cable replacement. The Dorman replacement brackets, cables, and even the rubber sealing boots were all over sized, and I had to reuse my old brackets and snag a couple of sealing boots at a local yard.

Aftermarket parts can sometimes run into these issues. The fan blade will likely need to be pressed onto the output shaft with a press assembly, if there is no keyway machined into the shaft for keeping the blade in place.
Duly noted. I should have taken the advice of someone more experienced than I rather than try to save a couple bucks.

Yes, the output shaft on the old, burnt-up motor has 2 keyways machined onto the end of the shaft that the fan blade slides onto and cannot spin. The new motor has a larger diameter shaft that is perfectly round, and likely the one that would need to be pressed. I may look around a little more and see if I can find an identical motor with the smaller output shaft, but it looks like I will be heading to the wrecking yard to pull an entire fan assy.

Thanks for you help.

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Old 03-04-2018, 03:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

UPDATE: I swapped in a junkyard cooling fan assy and it comes on when the motor gets hot and when AC is turned on as it should. But I started to hear a hum/moan that at first I thought was the blower motor because it happened when I turned the fan on, on heat, with diverter set to windshield defrost. Then it made a burning smell which I still thought was the blower motor, but then it started bogging the engine power/rpm and I knew it wasn't the blower motor but the compressor. Now the compressor is seized and kills the motor anytime it tries to engage. I disconnected both electrical connectors to the compressor so it can't be accidentally engaged.

I'm not sure if the cooling fan burning up led to the AC compressor failing, or vise versa, but they seem somehow connected. I believe the cooling fan may have been out for quite some time and I never noticed it until the failing compressor started putting enough load on the engine to make it overheat. But maybe that condenser/cooling fan being out led to the compressor starting to fail??? Chicken or the egg....

Either way, I think I'm now looking at buying a shorter (65"?) serpentine belt that bypasses the AC compressor, and trying to remove the compressor, lines, and maybe condenser for weight savings(27lb?). Is it worth doing? I've already removed wiper fluid res and some other stuff. I need to do an oil change and was thinking about putting the shorter belt on at the same time, through the passenger wheel well. I'm a little worried the seized compressor may have damaged the belt that's on there. (What I smelled burning?) This car has one foot in the grave, though. I'm already looking for another car. (What should I get?) I'm thinking something like a Mitsubishi Mirage

Last edited by dssl1; 03-04-2018 at 03:43 PM..

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Old 03-05-2018, 06:55 PM   #24
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Well, if you remove the lines, condenser, evaporator, and the compressor, you will save about 60 total pounds and free up a LOT of space to work under your hood. Your fuel economy will also improve slightly(about 2-3 mpg overall). The fuel economy gains come from reducing the amount of load on the engine and slightly lower curb weight.

The question is: Do you absolutely NEED air conditioning?

So, it comes down to personal preference, really. I don't use AC, so that was the very first thing I removed on my car and the shorter belt went on.

As far as what made the compressor seize up? The cooling fan will have no bearing on the compressor life span. Compressors, like any other component of a car, have their own bearings, clutches, etc which can(and eventually do) fail at any time.

As far as the Mitsubishi Mirage, you will likely want to do your research before committing to buying one.

When I seen my 1995 SC2 was available via a government auction, I did extensive research(which also led me to many threads here on Saturnfans.com before I joined), before bidding on that car. I actually bought it, sight unseen(the PO had trashed most of the car) and began restoring it to a road-worthy condition.

Also, many members have sold their Saturn S-Series and later came to regret it, because other models are not quite as easy to service or repair.

On the flip side of this coin, a personal friend of mine drove his 1990s model Mirage for many years. To my knowledge, he did his own maintenance and repairs on it. It was rusty and beat up, but was a fairly reliable car. He loves imports, and currently owns a 2000 Civic.

I am not going to tell you what the best choice is, because I honestly don't know what your needs are. I am giving you as much info as I have knowledge of, and you may interpret it as you see fit for your own needs or wants.

...
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"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 03-10-2018, 02:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

I think the cooling fan failing may have expedited the compressor failure for the reasons that fdryer mentioned, high pressure limit switch causing compressor to cycle on/off. I know that's to prevent damage but if you're constantly hitting that switch it may be doing some small amount of damage over time. I could be wrong though. 17 years and 174k miles is about what you could expect out of any compressor.

I don't know that removing the AC equipment will increase my mpg, because my windows will be open, which will seriously hurt the drag coefficient. But it will improve handling, make the car stop and accelerate quicker and handle jumps a little better. I've already removed the windshield wiper fluid res pump and lines for these reasons.

AC is not really an option in southern AZ, it's more a necessity in summer. That's why I'll be looking for a new car. I like Saturn S-series for their low purchase and operating costs and ease of maintenance, but the problem is they just don't make them anymore. GM had to dissapear Saturn because it was making all of their other brands look bad. Well, they made Saturn look as bad as all of their other brands first, then they disappeared it.

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Old 03-10-2018, 07:39 PM   #26
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

www.car-part.com

My advice, then: price a used AC Compressor and call a few shops to price an estimate for testing/recharging the system.

At least then, you have an idea of what your expected costs of repairing the system are versus replacing the entire car, as buying a different car brings on a different set of "known problems" as well as required, preventative maintenance costs.

Example: A used Cobalt/G5, which will likely require a timing chain replacement as that was the problem with the 2.2L Scrap-O-Tec boat anchors.

Or the Mazda 2.3L engine debacle that Ford has suffered from, with its main bearing failures. These engines even have NO TIMING MARKS for the DOHC cylinder head timing system. Kinda makes rebuilding them a "tad" difficult.

And I will leave Chrysler/Fiat products alone for once, because the entire S-Series forum community knows, all-too-well, how I feel about "dependable Dodge" products.....

My point is that every car has its own set of problems. The question is which problems are you willing(and able to afford paying for) deal with?

...
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"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 03-17-2018, 01:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Question: If I remove the condenser, what will the cooling/condenser fan mount too?

BTW, the reason my old fan blade didn't fit the new motor is because someone else before me replaced the fan motor and fan blade with a different cars that had the same mounting bolt pattern for the motor and the same diameter fan blade as the Saturn. I think they thought a 9-fin fan blade would give more cooling than the Saturn's standard 7 fins???

I've been thinking about a 2nd gen Prius, but the hybrid battery system is maybe more complex and expensive than I'd like to deal with, which leads me to a '14+ Mitsubishi Mirage. I think I might like a Ford Fiesta ST, but consumer reports doesn't give it a very good rating, and the turbo, while fun, is again maybe more complex and expensive than I'd like to deal with. I think I'd rather have a purely ecocentric car, and a performance-centric motorcycle.

I've read that most Taxi's are now using Prii as much, or more, for their durability and longevity as their fuel efficiency. "They can just take miles like nobody's business..."

It's been said that the S-Series motors last forever, but everything around them falls apart (CV axle, tranny). On the Prius, everything is supposed to hold up as good as the motor, and the HV battery pack is the only major concern. If I could find a good deal on an SL or SW in good shape I'd jump on it, but they are getting harder and harder to find, and when you do find them, they are priced like this.

Saturn SL2 - $3500
2002 Saturn SL2
condition: excellent
cylinders: 4 cylinders
drive: fwd
fuel: gas
odometer: 77000
paint color: blue
size: mid-size
title status: clean
transmission: automatic
type: sedan


https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/c...533033348.html
(sweet, I can post links now)

Last edited by dssl1; 03-17-2018 at 01:32 PM..

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Old 03-17-2018, 03:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by dssl1 View Post
Question: If I remove the condenser, what will the cooling/condenser fan mount too?
Nevermind, it's the radiator the fan assy mounts to, with the condenser in front of the radiator. Looks like a lot of work to get the condenser out... so may just settle for removal of the compressor and only take the condenser out if I ever need to pull the fan assy again or radiator for any reason.

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Old 03-18-2018, 11:52 AM   #29
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Actually, with only 77,000 miles, I wouldn't bat an eye at that price. The valve stem seals are likely still good. The rings are probably at the point where a "ring soak" will curb the minor oil consumption.

About the only two things I would be worried about are the plastic intake manifold leaking(from the heater inlet hose area), and the transmission having reverse slam from not having its proper fluid changes.

Supply vs Demand:

As more and more people look for cheap, reliable transportation, that they don't have to take to a mechanic for every little thing(like not tightening the fuel tank cap to exactly 3 clicks), and the available Saturn S-Series get less and less, the resale values are going to increase.

Here is the thing, about Saturn: People that have them and take care of them, are the same type of people that GM originally aimed the cars to target for sales:

The people that want a car that can last 30-40 years, without a bunch of headaches, that gets good gas mileage.

Honda & Toyota already had that reputation, back in the 1990s. Saturn was used to earn a similar reputation, with the S-Series.

Meaning, the people that have them, know what they have and what it is really worth.

As far as hybrids? They are junk. The battery packs WILL go bad, because batteries deteriorate over time. Current technology only allows them to last for about 5-7 years.

Replacements typically run the owner about $4,000-$5,000 in parts + labor(and as you can expect, these packs are not "User Serviceable", which means you are REQUIRED to have a Toyota dealership perform the repairs.)

This expense is in ADDITION to tires, brakes, oil changes, transmission fluid changes, antifreeze flushes and fuel.

Now, let's compare.

For simplicity, we will assume all expenses are identical for a gasoline vehicle ajd a hybrid, except fuel mileage and the battery packs.

Saturn S-Series: Average MPG 35
Toyota Prius: 50 MPG

Gallons of fuel to drive 100,000 miles @ $2.50/gal cost

Saturn S-Series: 2857 gallons or $7,142
Toyota Prius: 2000 gallons or $5,000 BUT add $4,500 for the battery pack replacement that will occur around the end of Toyota's 8-year/100,000-mile warranty period, and you come up -$2,142 with the Prius.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 03-18-2018, 02:36 PM   #30
Saturn Night
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Default Re: 2001 SL1 overheating

Correction: You would be -$2,358. I was on my lunch break, at that last post, and had to punch back in.

Plus, the hybrids do not use the electric drive motor during highway driving. So, highway fuel economy is about the same as a Saturn S-Series the only gains, with a hybrid, are during city trips & stop 'n' go traffic.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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