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Old 02-18-2018, 01:19 PM   #1
TomM96
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Default Vehicle Identification location(s)

On my '97 SW2, there's a Vehicle Identification Plate, visible from outside the car at base of driver's side windscreen; it's riveted to the upper, forward left side of instrument panel; the VIN is printed clearly.

There's a Tire Pressure Label on the door trailing edge, facing the door post when closed... it also features the VIN.

In addition, the spare tire cover (beneath the carpet) sports a Service Parts Identification Label; in addition to the VIN, it lists the Regular Production Options (RPOs).

After buying my '97 car, i removed the seats, console, and floor carpet (etc).
My recollection is that there was another location which indicated the VIN, and some other vehicle-specific data-- possibly beneath the console, or on the passenger side floor.
* * * *

Yesterday i drove home a car i just bought... and I've become concerned about the Title/VIN legitimacy.

Today i enquire about locations for vehicle-specific info on a 3rd gen SW:
a 2000 SW2.
I see the Vehicle ID plate at base windshield, the Tire Press Label on door, with the same VIN.

I do not see any Service Parts ID Label:
There's no spare tire cover, and the liftgate leaks, the spare tire compartment is a pool.

Can anyone report an additional location for VIN confirmation aside from base windshield; door edge, and spare tire cover, FOR THE 2000 model year ??

Thanks, in advance , T m

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Old 02-18-2018, 02:56 PM   #2
MobileSaturn
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Since all years of the Saturn S-series are considered a classic in many states at this point, I’m not sure how much the legitimacy of VIN plates on the car weighs in today – either in your state legally or in general. However, best I can recall, there is some sort of identification beneath the console, but I too cannot remember for sure.

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Old 02-18-2018, 06:32 PM   #3
TomM96
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

re legitimacy-- I just don't want to be accused of buying stolen property....


Thanks, Mobile, for the recollection about console.

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Old 02-18-2018, 11:12 PM   #4
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Doesn't matter what year the car is. Since 1954, Federal U.S. Code has had the same requirements, for ALL vehicles sold in the United States.


https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/CF...nt-detail.html

If you suspect the vehicle is stolen, or has been repaired with stolen parts, then you shouldn't buy that car.

While state laws vary, in Ohio, IF a "reasonable person" would suspect property to be stolen, a person in possession of stolen property can be charged with "Receiving Stolen Property". With an automobile, it is a Felony of the 4th Degree for us. You can be sentenced for 1-3 years in state prison, for that charge.

You may want to go to a local library, or a Law Library, and look up your state laws concerning possession of stolen property, as well. New York may actually have stiffer penalties for such crimes.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 02-18-2018, 11:42 PM   #5
MobileSaturn
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn Night View Post
Doesn't matter what year the car is. Since 1954, Federal U.S. Code has had the same requirements, for ALL vehicles sold in the United States.


https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/CF...nt-detail.html

If you suspect the vehicle is stolen, or has been repaired with stolen parts, then you shouldn't buy that car.

While state laws vary, in Ohio, IF a "reasonable person" would suspect property to be stolen, a person in possession of stolen property can be charged with "Receiving Stolen Property". With an automobile, it is a Felony of the 4th Degree for us. You can be sentenced for 1-3 years in state prison, for that charge.

You may want to go to a local library, or a Law Library, and look up your state laws concerning possession of stolen property, as well. New York may actually have stiffer penalties for such crimes.
Good info; didn't think about this in the context of stolen property. However, there's a much easier, 21st century way to check the law. Here's the link for New York: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/lawssrch.cgi?NVLWO:

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Old 02-18-2018, 11:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

At one point most of the body panels had a sticker with the car they were installed on's VIN. Most likely this has worn away in the nearly 20 years since they were new, but it's a place to check.

One time I was at my local DMV office to register a car, a couple came in to ask if the registered owner according to the DMV matched the paperwork the seller gave them...in their case it didn't (and they couldn't find out who it was registered to either). Doesn't mean much when vehicles over 15yrs old don't get titled and can get passed around to 5+ people before someone registers it again but a good idea if the deal sounds fishy and before handing money over.

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Old 02-19-2018, 12:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomM96 View Post
...
There's no spare tire cover, and the liftgate leaks, the spare tire compartment is a pool. ...
As a safety precaution, and since there is no spare tire in the way, consider something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Device.../dp/B00SZAFDZY

Alternatively, drill a drainage hole or just keep the trunk closed when there is no lifeguard on duty.

...
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:38 PM   #8
TomM96
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

>" If you suspect the vehicle is stolen, or has been repaired with stolen parts, then you shouldn't buy that car. "

I agree. I think i found a 'good' used-car dealer, i like the people... the price was right {$1600; dropped from $2500 after sitting on lot for 19 months}
for a 2000 SW2 with 164kMi; needing exhaust, struts, brakes, a subframe, and a windshield, at a minimum, but with little/no body rust.
* *
The Suffolk Cty(in NYS) Police Dept ran a VIN check this morning, and told me it's OK- "enjoy the car".

Two online websites report the car (judging by the VIN) is OK:
(I.)

https://www.vincheckpro.com/members/title-info-problems
vin check pro 2000 Saturn S-Series VIN – 1G8ZN8279YZ167783 Print Date: 2/18/2018
2pg pdf SavedAs: [[1G8ZN8279YZ167783-Report]]
“Title Info & Problems
The following section list our checks for 60+ possible problems related to the title of this vehicle. VINCheckPro keeps a history of brands that have been applied to the vehicle by any state. When records found, these records may show a severe problem that were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) or other parties. A "clean" report is a good thing!”

… ' No brand records found! '

+*+*+*+*+**+*+******
(II.)

https://www.nicb.org/how-we-help/vincheck
NICB National Insurance Crime Bureau
NICB's VINCheck is a free service provided to the public to assist in determining if a vehicle has been reported as stolen, but not recovered, or has been reported as a salvage vehicle by cooperating NICB member insurance companies. To perform a search, a vehicle identification number (VIN) is required.
VINCheck® Results VIN: 1G8ZN8279YZ167783

VINCheck® Theft Record.........
VIN: 1G8ZN8279YZ167783 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the
VINCheck® Theft Records.

VINCheck® Total Loss Record
VIN: 1G8ZN8279YZ167783 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the
VINCheck® Salvage Records.
VINCheck® is updated regularly as additional information is reported.

* * *
(III.)
A third website suggests an issue concerning the VIN:

https://motosnoop.com/free-vin-search/ Not found, Enter valid VIN .

+******+*+*+*+*+***

I HAD NO RESERVATIONS about the legal status of the vehicle, or transaction (was frankly only concerned about the 2+ hour drive home, and chances of breakdown), as i left the used car dealership, and proceeded across the street to fill the gas tank at a filling station.

At the filling station an individual approached and made some comments which raised the issue of the legal status of the vehicle... and thus of the transaction, and my ownership. The demeanor of the individual was more professional than anybody else nearby, and may have been an undercover cop (or Not).

I ignored those comments until, after driving home, changing the motor oil, eating & sleeping... i woke about 3:30 A.M., and began to wonder if i had unwittingly become part of a vast international drug-running and money-laundering operation!

So i just want to cover the bases -- to avoid a Bad investment.

The old Saturn Dealership suggested I call a Chevy dealership, who suggested that a CarFax report was in order, and adequate.

I'll lift the console to find another VIN; if that matches, I'll relax and get to the repairs.
* *

Bumpdraft--
On my current '97SW, the lid had leaked for so long (it had been dented in an accident) that about 1/3 of the attachment of the bottom to the sides, had become, like, air.

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Old 02-19-2018, 07:21 PM   #9
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomM96 View Post
>" If you suspect the vehicle is stolen, or has been repaired with stolen parts, then you shouldn't buy that car. "

I agree. I think i found a 'good' used-car dealer, i like the people... the price was right {$1600; dropped from $2500 after sitting on lot for 19 months}
for a 2000 SW2 with 164kMi; needing exhaust, struts, brakes, a subframe, and a windshield, at a minimum, but with little/no body rust.
* *
The Suffolk Cty(in NYS) Police Dept ran a VIN check this morning, and told me it's OK- "enjoy the car".

Two online websites report the car (judging by the VIN) is OK:
(I.)

https://www.vincheckpro.com/members/title-info-problems
vin check pro 2000 Saturn S-Series VIN – 1G8ZN8279YZ167783 Print Date: 2/18/2018
2pg pdf SavedAs: [[1G8ZN8279YZ167783-Report]]
“Title Info & Problems
The following section list our checks for 60+ possible problems related to the title of this vehicle. VINCheckPro keeps a history of brands that have been applied to the vehicle by any state. When records found, these records may show a severe problem that were reported by a state Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) or other parties. A "clean" report is a good thing!”

… ' No brand records found! '

+*+*+*+*+**+*+******
(II.)

https://www.nicb.org/how-we-help/vincheck
NICB National Insurance Crime Bureau
NICB's VINCheck is a free service provided to the public to assist in determining if a vehicle has been reported as stolen, but not recovered, or has been reported as a salvage vehicle by cooperating NICB member insurance companies. To perform a search, a vehicle identification number (VIN) is required.
VINCheck® Results VIN: 1G8ZN8279YZ167783

VINCheck® Theft Record.........
VIN: 1G8ZN8279YZ167783 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the
VINCheck® Theft Records.

VINCheck® Total Loss Record
VIN: 1G8ZN8279YZ167783 has not been identified as a vehicle listed in the
VINCheck® Salvage Records.
VINCheck® is updated regularly as additional information is reported.

* * *
(III.)
A third website suggests an issue concerning the VIN:

https://motosnoop.com/free-vin-search/ Not found, Enter valid VIN .

+******+*+*+*+*+***

I HAD NO RESERVATIONS about the legal status of the vehicle, or transaction (was frankly only concerned about the 2+ hour drive home, and chances of breakdown), as i left the used car dealership, and proceeded across the street to fill the gas tank at a filling station.

At the filling station an individual approached and made some comments which raised the issue of the legal status of the vehicle... and thus of the transaction, and my ownership. The demeanor of the individual was more professional than anybody else nearby, and may have been an undercover cop (or Not).

I ignored those comments until, after driving home, changing the motor oil, eating & sleeping... i woke about 3:30 A.M., and began to wonder if i had unwittingly become part of a vast international drug-running and money-laundering operation!

So i just want to cover the bases -- to avoid a Bad investment.

The old Saturn Dealership suggested I call a Chevy dealership, who suggested that a CarFax report was in order, and adequate.

I'll lift the console to find another VIN; if that matches, I'll relax and get to the repairs.
* *

Bumpdraft--
On my current '97SW, the lid had leaked for so long (it had been dented in an accident) that about 1/3 of the attachment of the bottom to the sides, had become, like, air.
Good info to remember, for checking VINs.

www.car-part.com

You may use this link, to source a used sub frame and parts for repair, as it searches local wrecking yards.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 02-19-2018, 07:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

If the cops on the vin I don’t worry. I have had them check vin numbers a couple times when buying a car and the seller started getting strange. But someone are just strange.

-Robert

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Old 02-19-2018, 10:04 PM   #11
TomM96
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Thanks RobertG~

I was relieved by their response.
However:
(1) we have lotsa mob activity in our (NYC) area
(2) An article last fall reported that there are connections between the export of used autos to Latin America (&, i think Europe), the cocaine and heroin trades, ... and money laundering, which ends up funding Iranian Hezbolla.

Another recent previous article described an auto exporter (business located between my residence and the used car lot where i made my recent purchase) who specialized in sending cars to Haiti.
It is said that one reason Haiti remains 'underdeveloped' concerns the corruption of government officials, by various drug trades!

Four years ago i was at a wrecking yard in Rhode Island. A Jamaican, dressed in party whites, cruises in with a list of vehicles/powerplants to buy.
The yard counterman asks the buyer whether he wants newer/low-mileage items, or older/more-worn pieces. The buyer responds, "It doesn't matter".
The context matters!
* * *

There may be an issue with the databases concerning stolen vehicles.

The implication is they only list 'stolen' articles.
If they also listed 'known good' articles, that would increase the veracity of the listings.

If i can find a third/hidden VIN, i'll be re-assured.

- ...

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Old 02-20-2018, 12:36 AM   #12
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomM96 View Post
Thanks RobertG~

I was relieved by their response.
However:
(1) we have lotsa mob activity in our (NYC) area
(2) An article last fall reported that there are connections between the export of used autos to Latin America (&, i think Europe), the cocaine and heroin trades, ... and money laundering, which ends up funding Iranian Hezbolla.

Another recent previous article described an auto exporter (business located between my residence and the used car lot where i made my recent purchase) who specialized in sending cars to Haiti.
It is said that one reason Haiti remains 'underdeveloped' concerns the corruption of government officials, by various drug trades!

Four years ago i was at a wrecking yard in Rhode Island. A Jamaican, dressed in party whites, cruises in with a list of vehicles/powerplants to buy.
The yard counterman asks the buyer whether he wants newer/low-mileage items, or older/more-worn pieces. The buyer responds, "It doesn't matter".
The context matters!
* * *

There may be an issue with the databases concerning stolen vehicles.

The implication is they only list 'stolen' articles.
If they also listed 'known good' articles, that would increase the veracity of the listings.

If i can find a third/hidden VIN, i'll be re-assured.

- ...
Well, you have the door sticker, the dashboard driver's side(right under the windshield), and both front fenders with VIN identification.

You also stated you had no issues, to respond to my postings, until you had already bought the car.

So, why do you need any reassurance now? You are already in possession pf the vehicle.

If your statements, about the police stating the VIN checked out as "not stolen"(meaning it is not in their database), then I don't see the point of searching for another VIN..

But, you can refer back to all those searches you posted showing the VIN was clean, or search the link I previously provided with the federal regulations on where auto manufacturers have to place the hidden VINs to conform to U.S. Code.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 02-20-2018, 12:45 AM   #13
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Placing vehicles, with CLEAN VINs, into a "stolen" vehicle database would not aid in timely searches. This would merely add a bunch of peoples' cars to a database, that police simply would not need to worry about.

I have had guns stolen, from my house. The database for stolen guns is just like that of stolen gaming consoles, cars, or any other object that contains a serial #, or identification number. I have dealt with the police, and pawn shops in these matters.

If the VIN does NOT show up in the database, there is no need to worry about the issue.

Even if you lose the title, to your car, your vehicle registration amd even your insurance policy will still contain the VIN to the respective vehicle, in the event that the vehicle is stolen. Obtaining your insurance policy declarations page os actually a good backup plan to obtain that information, if it were needed to be given to police, for trying to locate a stolen vehicle.

Although, looking at all the irrelevant information as to why you have such a problem with stolen vehicles and why Haiti is still a 3rd-world country, I suspect the real issue is not whether your vehicle is stolen.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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Old 02-20-2018, 09:08 AM   #14
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Had a customer once that bought a 2 yr old ford suv from private party. A month later while vacuuming found an uncashed paycheck. Called to give it back and it was her stolen car. Turns out vin on car was glued on from a totaled out similar car. Had to return vehicle and out the full amount.

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Old 02-20-2018, 09:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomM96 View Post
Bumpdraft--
On my current '97SW, the lid had leaked for so long (it had been dented in an accident) that about 1/3 of the attachment of the bottom to the sides, had become, like, air.
Don’t hesitate to drill a hole or two. Drain the water.

...
Competition Clutch 10Lb. Flywheel. 14 stalls to date (and loving it)

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Old 02-20-2018, 11:21 AM   #16
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

You can also check the engine on the car and the bell housing of the transmission where it mates with the Engine Block. That location will be printed in Dot Matrix Numbers, just south of the Spark Plug Coil Packs.

*If you wanted to see if your car still has the original engine and transmission.

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?p=935690

...
Bryan

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99 SL

94SL2 260K Miles
1/15

97SW2 266K Miles
2/15

Always
94SC1 340,501 Miles
Org. Engine/Auto Trans
2/97-10/08
Gone 3/12

92SL1
05VUE
91SC

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Old 02-20-2018, 08:26 PM   #17
Saturn Night
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Default Re: Vehicle Identification location(s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefunkar View Post
Had a customer once that bought a 2 yr old ford suv from private party. A month later while vacuuming found an uncashed paycheck. Called to give it back and it was her stolen car. Turns out vin on car was glued on from a totaled out similar car. Had to return vehicle and out the full amount.
Ouch, that is a very rare and extreme case. In Ohio, you can rebuild a wrecked vehicle and have it inspected by the state highway patrol. They check for the "hidden" VINs, for that very reason. They also check the VIN/receipts(which MUST have the VIN of ANY USED parts) for stolen parts being used to rebuild a wrecked/abandoned vehicle.

That was the process I went through, to title and register my 1995 SC2. Put a fair amount of time, effort, work, and money into it, but actually bought the car for only $200($15 buyer's premium) off a police impound auction.

...
"What does a Saturn owner do, at the gas station?"

"He checks the gas, and fills the oil....."

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