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Old 07-02-2019, 01:30 PM   #1
MikeNW
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1997 SL
Default Cylinder head Qs

1997 SL
197,000 miles

Haynes manual says, replace the two torx head bolts that hold the camshaft retainer. WHY. Can I reuse old ones and use blue loctite? I can't find them anyway.

Since I just replaced the head gasket 300 miles ago, and it leaked oil into coolant again, I'm re-doing it.
But am having the head milled this time. Machine shop said it was flat last time.

Hope that's the ticket

...
97 SL. Born 6/5/97, bought 7/7/97
08 Burgman 400
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:39 PM   #2
OldNuc
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

Did you find out where it leaked? This a rather critical question. Reuse the cam shaft retainer but buy new headbolts.

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Old 07-02-2019, 09:18 PM   #3
ssicarman
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Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNW View Post
1997 SL
197,000 miles

Haynes manual says, replace the two torx head bolts that hold the camshaft retainer. WHY. Can I reuse old ones and use blue loctite? I can't find them anyway.

Since I just replaced the head gasket 300 miles ago, and it leaked oil into coolant again, I'm re-doing it.
But am having the head milled this time. Machine shop said it was flat last time.

Hope that's the ticket
Did you check for a crack in the head by the #4 cylinder camshaft journal area.

Engine Runs Hot and/or Engine Oil Mixed with Engine Coolant In Engine Coolant Recovery Reservoir #96-T-65B - (Jan 6, 2003)
Engine Runs Hot and/or Engine Oil Mixed with Engine Coolant in Engine Coolant Recovery Reservoir (Replace Cylinder Head Assembly). This bulletin is revised to provide updated claim information as well as parts information about the release of a remanufactured cylinder head. This bulletin supercedes bulletin 96-t-65A, which should be discarded.
1991 - 1997 Saturn vehicles equipped with SOHC (LK0-1991-1994, L24-1995--1997) engines.

Condition
Engine may run hot and/or have engine oil mixed with engine coolant. This condition may be noticeable when checking coolant recovery reservoir level.

Cause
Some 1991-1997 SOHC engines may develop a crack on or near the camshaft journals and surrounding casting areas allowing engine oil to mix with engine coolant.


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Old 07-04-2019, 10:16 PM   #4
TomM96
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Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

please forgive my ignorance/memory-issue...

Are these similar to 'allen head'/ 'socket head'/ 'cheese head', ie Female, but with lobular internals....

Or are they like a standard cap screw, but lobular rather than hexagon Male?
.................

For crack detection, think
(1) cleaning + inspection magnifier
(2) 'Zyglo' fluid that flouresces under blacklight
(3) pressurize journals with air & submerge ...

Waiex might know some aircraft engine inspection techniques !!

Last edited by TomM96; 07-04-2019 at 10:21 PM.. Reason: fergat

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Old 07-04-2019, 11:23 PM   #5
focusofheart
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1998 SL2
Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomM96 View Post
please forgive my ignorance/memory-issue...

Are these similar to 'allen head'/ 'socket head'/ 'cheese head', ie Female, but with lobular internals....

Or are they like a standard cap screw, but lobular rather than hexagon Male?
.................

For crack detection, think
(1) cleaning + inspection magnifier
(2) 'Zyglo' fluid that flouresces under blacklight
(3) pressurize journals with air & submerge ...

Waiex might know some aircraft engine inspection techniques !!
Wow! I think I can answer this one - LOL!

Torx® screws, bolts and fasteners have a six-point star design on the head.

I just bought the a small set of Torx Bit Sockets to take off the outer door panel and take off the door pillars.

...
1998 SL2

Last edited by focusofheart; 07-04-2019 at 11:31 PM..

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Old 07-04-2019, 11:33 PM   #6
fetchitfido
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2001 SC2
Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

Common bolt head types:


Saturn only use's "hex" and "torx" style heads. There might be a "security torx" on the adjustment bolt for the '95-'97 FPR.

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Old 07-05-2019, 03:00 PM   #7
TomM96
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Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

Thankyou, Fetch (and Focus). I searched for torx head bolts with the Male format, and only found smaller screws, skewed toward US standard.

It might be possible to substitute a hex socket head (like Allen). I think that, like
the Torx, the socket heads are Smaller in diameter than standard hex head cap screws....

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Old 07-12-2019, 01:50 PM   #8
MikeNW
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1997 SL
Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

I can't see a leak. Head gasket has only 300 miles on it since the spring repair.

The cam retainer bolts are torx head. Flat heads. Set flush with cam retainer.

Yes I will get new head bolts.

...
97 SL. Born 6/5/97, bought 7/7/97
08 Burgman 400
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:01 PM   #9
OldNuc
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1998 SC2
Default Re: Cylinder head Qs

When you torqued the head which procedure did you follow?

This one:
Clean the head bolt holes with a fiber brush and blow out with compressed air. Clean the head and block mating surfaces with acetone. Set your new gasket on the block in the correct position so the oil port is not blocked. Carefully set the head on the gasket and do not scratch the head or block. If the bolts seem to be oily when you pull them out of the box wipe them off with a clean dry rag and don't leave any lint on them. Now screw all the NEW head bolts in by hand and torque them in order and stages to the 48ft-lb final value.

SOHC head torquing procedure

Initial dry bolt torque in sequence to 48ft-lb following the torquing pattern in stages to 20ft-lb, 30ft-lb, and final 48ft-lb. This establishes the proper clamp load on the gasket.

This is followed by removal in about 1/4 turn in sequence until loose.

Bolts washers, threads and bolt heads are oiled with clean engine oil and reinstalled finger tight.

Torqued in sequence to 22 ft-lb then 33ft-lb and then additional 90 degree turn.

The 90 degrees is important so do not guess at the 90 degrees. You can eyeball it and use a 1/2 drive breaker bar and make the 90 degree turn in a single smooth motion.

If this is not followed the new gasket will end up leaking.

Torquing sequence
intake side
8-4-1-5-9
7-3-2-6-10
exhaust side


Cleaning the bolt holes before install is critical. After the initial bolt torquing to 48ft-lb it is a good idea to let it sit for a couple of hours minimum overnight is better.

A dry bolt is a lightly oiled bolt as it comes out of the box, ther has to be some lube on these bolts initially. The oiled bolt condition mentioned for the final torquing is 5w-30 engine oil and not dripping.

When making the 90 degree turn the last 3-5 degrees should be quite difficult and immediately preceded by the feeling that the bolt has gone soft and stretched.

it is very easy to not have the SOHC head inadequately torqued and the oil line to the cam will also leak across the gasket into the water as there is not a lot of distance between these 2 points. This is why I asked you to carefully check for external leakage as that single head bolt can be tightened slightly if it leaks. DO NOT ever use any additional sealant on these head gaskets.

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