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Old 07-30-2019, 01:22 PM   #1
neurotopia
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2005 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default R-134a and PAG quantities?

I've seen a few different numbers around for these. I was wondering if anybody had the correct figures? I don't have a manual any more and this is all I can find:

The sticker on my car says 2.09 lbs or something like that. However it doesn't identify the amount of PAG oil. My mechanic did 2 12 oz cans of refrigerant (should be 24 oz) after a repair and the temperature was just cool, not cold (PAG already in system).

I've also seen on TechChoiceParts that you should have 7.5 oz of PAG and 33.5 of refrigerant for the L-series. They have correct values for other Saturns so I'm assuming these are correct?

I added another 6 oz and it got nice and cold. Pressures are in the normal range.

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Old 07-30-2019, 03:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

2.09 lbs is correct. Converted to ounces is 33.44 ounces. Two 12 oz cans is only 24 ozs. You're shy of the full amount by 9 ozs. Adding 6 ozs brought the amount to 30 ozs (12+12+6=30). You're still shy 3.5 ozs but that's ok as long as you're comfortable with cooling. Never over fill ac systems as this drives up pressures and heat due to compressing a gas to convert it to liquid form in refrigeration systems. Over filling also loads the engine, felt more in 4 cyl cars than V6, V8 engines.

Your mechanic is lacking information he should have for any repairs. Before supplying service manual info, I have to ask one question. What repairs were made to your ac system, parts replaced? Be specific as all major replacement parts require specified amounts of pag oil. Over filling of pag oil reduces the volume needed for refrigerant in a finite volume of closed ac systems. Under filling of pag oil can result in premature compressor damage.

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Old 07-30-2019, 03:45 PM   #3
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2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
2.09 lbs is correct. Converted to ounces is 33.44 ounces. Two 12 oz cans is only 24 ozs. You're shy of the full amount by 9 ozs. Adding 6 ozs brought the amount to 30 ozs (12+12+6=30). You're still shy 3.5 ozs but that's ok as long as you're comfortable with cooling. Never over fill ac systems as this drives up pressures and heat due to compressing a gas to convert it to liquid form in refrigeration systems. Over filling also loads the engine, felt more in 4 cyl cars than V6, V8 engines.

Your mechanic is lacking information he should have for any repairs. Before supplying service manual info, I have to ask one question. What repairs were made to your ac system, parts replaced? Be specific as all major replacement parts require specified amounts of pag oil. Over filling of pag oil reduces the volume needed for refrigerant in a finite volume of closed ac systems. Under filling of pag oil can result in premature compressor damage.
The old compressor blew (read equal high/low side pressure, couldn't be jumped). I flushed it, replaced the drier and the expansion valve, and put in a new compressor, he put in the new evaporator because I bent the damn lip of the pipe and didn't want to eff with it anymore; I don't have a lift so anything involving the expansion valve was a real pain for me to reach.

I may be mistaken in how much he put in. He just said "I put in what was on the label" and the bad math is quite likely my error. However, I suspect he did underfill it.

I was the one who put the PAG in the system, I used the right viscosity and went with 7.5 oz. Added a bit of UV dye.

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Old 07-30-2019, 05:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

I don't know how I missed it but I usually remind members to update their profile to reflect make, model and year so it doesn't have to be asked repeatedly whenever members ask for help. Please update your profile under the User CP/Edit Your Details tabs. If I can post relevant service manual info, I prefer basic car info so I won't give Lamborghini specs for a VW.....(I wish I had access to Lambo specs - details are fascinating in and of itself). Anyway and although L-series specs are generally the same for year and both models (L200/L300) except for engines, I have no desire to post misinformation.

Compressors, evap coil, and drier are major parts with specified amounts of pag oil to pour into each. Compressor replacement, if not a catastrophic rupture with refrigerant, oil and dye blown everywhere, usually require draining oil to determine the amount to pour new oil into a replacement. Any oil in replacements are drained out before filling with the appropriate amount. Evap coil and drier are simply oiled with listed amounts from service manuals. All procedures are done to ensure make-up oil matches factory amounts. Tedious but necessary to have correct oil in a system that runs a continuously for life in a sealed system no different from refrigerators, freezers and other refrigeration systems.

As soon as you update car info or at least post it in the next reply, I can post the chart of refrigerant and oil amounts.

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Old 07-30-2019, 06:22 PM   #5
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2005 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
2002 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

Heh. We actually have two. My daughter's (which I'm asking about) is a 2.2 L 2002 L200. Though if you have the values for a 2005 L300 with the 3.0 I'd appreciate it too, just in case....

I'll update the profile in a min.

Out of curiosity, doesn't the movement of the R134a tend to migrate the PAG oil around the system to some extent?

Your help is appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I don't know how I missed it but I usually remind members to update their profile to reflect make, model and year so it doesn't have to be asked repeatedly whenever members ask for help. Please update your profile under the User CP/Edit Your Details tabs. If I can post relevant service manual info, I prefer basic car info so I won't give Lamborghini specs for a VW.....(I wish I had access to Lambo specs - details are fascinating in and of itself). Anyway and although L-series specs are generally the same for year and both models (L200/L300) except for engines, I have no desire to post misinformation.

Compressors, evap coil, and drier are major parts with specified amounts of pag oil to pour into each. Compressor replacement, if not a catastrophic rupture with refrigerant, oil and dye blown everywhere, usually require draining oil to determine the amount to pour new oil into a replacement. Any oil in replacements are drained out before filling with the appropriate amount. Evap coil and drier are simply oiled with listed amounts from service manuals. All procedures are done to ensure make-up oil matches factory amounts. Tedious but necessary to have correct oil in a system that runs a continuously for life in a sealed system no different from refrigerators, freezers and other refrigeration systems.

As soon as you update car info or at least post it in the next reply, I can post the chart of refrigerant and oil amounts.

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Old 07-30-2019, 06:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

Refrigerant oil circulates freely throughput the entire acc system, returning back to the suction side to continue lubricating the compressor. When refrigerant is compressed and becomes a liquid in the condenser coil, liquid refrigerant facilitates oil movement thru the system. The entire system is oily with oil dispersed everywhere. Below are files for the '02 L200. I'll check to see if '05 L300's use the same info and follow up later - I'm going out for some house maintenance and should be back in an hour or so unless I'm distracted for other chores I loathe......
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Service Information.pdf (48.5 KB, 1 views)
File Type: pdf Service Information(1).pdf (84.6 KB, 2 views)
File Type: pdf Service Information(2).pdf (120.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: pdf Service Information(3).pdf (93.9 KB, 5 views)

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Old 07-30-2019, 07:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

Much appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Refrigerant oil circulates freely throughput the entire acc system, returning back to the suction side to continue lubricating the compressor. When refrigerant is compressed and becomes a liquid in the condenser coil, liquid refrigerant facilitates oil movement thru the system. The entire system is oily with oil dispersed everywhere. Below are files for the '02 L200. I'll check to see if '05 L300's use the same info and follow up later - I'm going out for some house maintenance and should be back in an hour or so unless I'm distracted for other chores I loathe......

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Old 07-30-2019, 08:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

The differences of oil amounts between L200 and L300 are minor. With the same refrigerant amounts, I suspect similar operating pressures.

Thank you for profile changes.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Service Information.pdf (96.3 KB, 3 views)

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Old 08-02-2019, 07:59 PM   #9
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2002 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
The differences of oil amounts between L200 and L300 are minor. With the same refrigerant amounts, I suspect similar operating pressures.

Thank you for profile changes.

So I added just one big can. And it was cold for not very long. So if I was to give it another can and a half I should have air barring no leaks. I guess what Iím asking is, since system is not full, I shouldnít have any cold air right?

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Old 08-02-2019, 09:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: R-134a and PAG quantities?

Tyson, you should be posting a new thread about your ac system as yours has nothing to do with questions in this thread.

If you used those cans containing sealer......the damage may have doubled. If you searched threads within Saturnfans, sealer is never recommended and worsens the predicament from far too many diyers looking for a quick fix that doesn't exist.

1-You already have a leak but aren't trained or became familiar with diagnosing vehicle ac problems. You didn't do anything more than 99% of diyers looking to save on ac repairs with so called quick fixers in a can. They simply don't work, period. If they did, why don't they guarantee their product if it doesn't work and return your money? You already wasted money on a temporary repair to a leaking system that's still leaking. Don't waste any more money on more cans of sealer as all this does is make a repair shop more money rebuilding your trashed ac system from contaminants, the sealer no vehicle manufacturer ever uses. NO VEHICLE MANUFACTURER EVER USES OR ENDORSES SEALER OF ANY KIND. Only three things are circulating in vehicle ac systems; refrigerant r134a, pag refrigerant oil and dye compatible with GM ac systems. Nothing else. Anything else is described in every service manual as contaminants to interfere with normal refrigeration, cooling as it came from the factory (with zero sealer). 98% of all vehicle ac system problems are the eventual leaks occurring from normal wear and tear rattling ac systems into cracking stress hardened soft aluminum tubing, loosen fittings or other ways to allow a leak to occur. Dye was added at factory assembly to help diyers as well as dealer techs find leaks the easy way, with an inexpensive uv blacklight shining on every part of the ac system to make leaks glow from dye leaking out along with invisible refrigerant gas. Oil stains aluminum to help find leaks.

2-Second guessing on how much to add is gambling on your safety. Operating pressures are between 25-250+psi. If not careful and an explosion occurs from over filling ac systems, a sudden rupture of any part of the system can result in injury as refrigerant gas freezes anything it comes in contact with along with oil, both under high pressure. Ac repairs are unforgiving of mistakes from guessing.

Post a new thread about your ac system and describe in detail what occurred from the beginning before you decided on trying refill kits. Don't continue here.

Last edited by fdryer; 08-02-2019 at 09:41 PM..

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