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Old 04-07-2017, 03:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

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Are there any good instructions for this on here or anywhere? With pictures?
There's a lot of stuff in this thread . . .
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=173406

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Old 09-21-2018, 02:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Here's a wiring diagram for the camshaft position sensor. From the service manual; The camshaft position (CMP) sensor is a hall effect switching device that works in conjunction with a single tooth reluctor wheel used to determine the position of the bank 2 exhaust camshaft. The engine control module (ECM) expects the CMP sensor signal to be low, 0 volts, as the single tooth in the reluctor wheel passes the sensor, and high, 12 volts, during the remainder of the reluctor wheel rotation. The ECM supplies a 12-volt pull up voltage on the CMP sensor signal circuit. The ECM expects to see one transition from high to low every two crankshaft revolutions. This signal, when combined with the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor signal, enables the ECM to properly synchronize ignition timing, fuel delivery and knock control. As long as the CKP signal is available, the engine can start and run. The ECM will default to a non-sequential fuel injector operation even if there is no CMP sensor signal. If the ECM detects extra or missing CMP sensor signal transitions within a certain number of crankshaft revolutions, DTC P0341 sets.

Are there any error codes stored? The MIL/CEL/SES light should be on if an error code is generated. As described, P0341 is for a faulty cam sensor and may not affect how the engine runs.

Are there any symptoms that makes you feel the cam sensor failed?
Fdryer,

Thank you for inserting the repair manual content here. I am working on a 2004 Saturn Vue v6, and would greatly appreciate your follow up consultation here. I am experiencing a loss of signal / spark to one side of the coils of my engine. In my case, the front of the vehicle. I am also enperiencing random no starts, that is to say, after running the engine, I will attempt to turn the engine over, but all I experience is a “click”. After several attempts (4-5) the vehicle will start. This occurrence is random and increasing in frequency. When starting the vehicle, the cranking RPM seems to be at 50% but the battery seems to have endurance.

I decided to test the Camshaft Position Sensor while on the vehicle. I back probed the three wires and connected one lead of my multimeter to the signal wire, and the other to the ground wire. With the key in the on position in the ignition, I rotated the crankshaft two full revolutions and monitored my multimeter. I noted that while the reluctor wheel passed the Camchaft Position Sensor, the voltage was 0, however, during the remaining rotation of the reluctor wheel, my voltage was 4 volts. So my question is, is this voltage somehow managed by the Camshaft Position Sensor itself, or is it regulated by ECU, another device, or even the battery?

I’d rather not replace my entire vehicle one piece at a time, so...test test test away we go!

Thank you, Craig.

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Old 09-21-2018, 02:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

Your flattering reference to me as a consultant will go nowhere. The one cell between my ears has no room for an ego, much less remembering myself as a consultant. I'm just another diyer here and share what I have limited access to.

You're describing more than one problem. The cam sensor is not the problem. Your V6 losing one bank of spark is one issue having nothing to do with cam sensor faults. The intermittent failure of the starter is another issue.

The service manual descriptions of how a cam sensor works can be misleading as I've been misled with electronics until I learned more from gaining perspective on overall functions. Briefly put, remove the cam sensor or have it where it doesn't have a tooth to pickup a signal of a metallic object. Set your meter to lowest voltage (12v) and wave a screwdriver tip past the sensor quickly. You should see a voltage reading but digital meters cannot read and freeze the display. Better digital multimeters with a bar graph can show how fast a signal is generated as the bar graph moves across the screen to represent how much voltage is generated before it disappears. Oscilloscopes are used for this purpose and a digital scope capable of capturing and freezing the display is the best way to see fleeting signals. With what is given, ignore this anyway. My guess is your cam sensor is fine and not the problem.

Losing one side of the ignition/spark implies that circuit is faulty. Presuming the other cylinder bank has spark (verified?), you can check for a blown fuse powering the ignition coil pack, examine for loose/broken connections to the ign coil pack and/or measure for voltage to the coil pack. A resistance check of the coil pack can be performed too before suspecting a dead one.

How many miles on your Vue? This has some bearing on how long a starter lasts. A loud click sound followed by dead silence when starting usually points to either severely corroded/loose battery cable connections or a worn out starter. This presumes the battery is in good condition otherwise have it tested first at any store selling batteries before suspecting a worn starter. There's an easy way to help determine starter from cable problems if cables are clean, free of corrosion and snug.

Last edited by fdryer; 09-21-2018 at 02:41 PM..

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Old 09-21-2018, 03:05 PM   #24
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Default Re: Camshaft position sensor test

And to add more confusion than necessary, since you measured 4vdc on the signal wire of your cam sensor, that is correct. I never question wiring diagrams, assuming they're correct, until someone mentions anomalies. The wiring diagram shows a 5v reference while the written descriptions mentions 12v - the anomaly. Since you found 4 volts, you may have verified 5v as the reference voltage. A simple check on one of the pins should show 5v or 12v. If 5v is found then a misprint was made in manuals. Again, ignore this as I believe the cam sensor is not the issue here.

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