SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series General
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2014, 02:32 AM   #1
DogOfDeath
New Member
DogOfDeath is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Default Main bearing swap while block remains in car

First of all I am new to this site and have been doing lots of reading in the forums for the past couple of weeks. I joined after doing a search for excessive oil consumption. To find out I'm not the only one with this problem.

Needless to say, I did the piston soaks a couple of times using the GM piston cleaner without success as it appears so many of us have done.

Now I'm getting ready to tear into my 2002 SL2 with 176k on it and replace the piston rings. I was in the one quart per 250 mile range and at times it looked like a shuttle launch when getting back on the gas after a long down hill run using the engine to help break.

So since I was going to tear into the engines lower end and replace the rod bearing while the prisons were out, I was wondering what your thoughts were on changing out the main bearing while I'm down there. I have had no knocks or oil pressure issues like most of the threads I have read.

So should I leave well enough alone and leave them since I don't really suspect an immediate problem, or change them out since I have 176k on the engine and I'm in a good place to replace them? Is the main bearing swap A job that can be done with the engine in the car?

As a side note for some more info, I am also planning on replacing the oil pump, timing chain, inspecting the head and valves, replacing the valve guide seals and of course, drilling the drain back holes in the Pistons.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


2002 Saturn SL2 DOHC with 176k / 5 speed manual. Car was given to me from my father and law who bought it new and took descent care of it. ( yes he likes me

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DogOfDeath's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DogOfDeath reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DogOfDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 10-16-2014, 06:37 AM   #2
wi111y
Advanced Member
wi111y is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 866

1995 SL
1995 SW2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogOfDeath View Post
First of all I am new to this site and have been doing lots of reading in the forums for the past couple of weeks. I joined after doing a search for excessive oil consumption. To find out I'm not the only one with this problem.

Needless to say, I did the piston soaks a couple of times using the GM piston cleaner without success as it appears so many of us have done.

Now I'm getting ready to tear into my 2002 SL2 with 176k on it and replace the piston rings. I was in the one quart per 250 mile range and at times it looked like a shuttle launch when getting back on the gas after a long down hill run using the engine to help break.

So since I was going to tear into the engines lower end and replace the rod bearing while the prisons were out, I was wondering what your thoughts were on changing out the main bearing while I'm down there. I have had no knocks or oil pressure issues like most of the threads I have read.

So should I leave well enough alone and leave them since I don't really suspect an immediate problem, or change them out since I have 176k on the engine and I'm in a good place to replace them? Is the main bearing swap A job that can be done with the engine in the car?

As a side note for some more info, I am also planning on replacing the oil pump, timing chain, inspecting the head and valves, replacing the valve guide seals and of course, drilling the drain back holes in the Pistons.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


2002 Saturn SL2 DOHC with 176k / 5 speed manual. Car was given to me from my father and law who bought it new and took descent care of it. ( yes he likes me
Pulling the motor would be easiest. FWIW, I was going to suggest it when you were mentioning tearing the bottom end apart, but since you plan on doing all that other work, you should almost definitely pull everything.

...
'95 SL 5 Speed 220k - DD
'95 SW2 5 Speed 230k - Gone!
'95 Camaro Z28 - Project
'00 Tahoe Z71 - Truck stuff

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to wi111y's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help wi111y reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
wi111y is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 07:55 AM   #3
Highmile
Senior Member
Highmile will become famous soon enoughHighmile will become famous soon enough
 
Highmile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 1,167

1995 SL1
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

I'd pull a couple of the main caps and check them before I just decided to replace them.

But to answer your question, yes you can replace them with the block in the car. I just did it.

Highmile
'95 SL1 554k and counting

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Highmile's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Highmile reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Highmile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 09:12 AM   #4
AlexofNazareth
Master Member
AlexofNazareth will become famous soon enough
 
AlexofNazareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 2,531

2002 SL1
2006 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

How are you replacing the mains when you only have access to the load bearings and not the top half of the bearing(the crank isnt coming down unless you unbolt the flywheel and rear main seal).

Just pull the engine. You will thank yourself for it.

...
'02 SL1 [w/ a snail-shaped muffler]
'06 Vue RL
Saturn Night is Special ED.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to AlexofNazareth's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help AlexofNazareth reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
AlexofNazareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 12:09 PM   #5
DogOfDeath
New Member
DogOfDeath is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexofNazareth View Post
How are you replacing the mains when you only have access to the load bearings and not the top half of the bearing(the crank isnt coming down unless you unbolt the flywheel and rear main seal).

Just pull the engine. You will thank yourself for it.
I wasn't sure how I was going to pull it off. I was hoping someone had done it and could explain the procedure. Looks like High Mile has done it. I was thinking about loosing up all of the main caps and let them hang as low as possible while supporting the crank. Then slide out the upper bearing and replace it with the new. Then lift the crank up slightly and replace the bearings on all the caps. But I wasn't sure how feasible this would be while still in the block working underneath the car. High Mile, could you shed some light on how you did it?

Defiantly think checking the condition of the existing bearings and crank is a good idea first and will definitely do.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DogOfDeath's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DogOfDeath reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DogOfDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 12:46 PM   #6
blue92
Senior Member
blue92 will become famous soon enoughblue92 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,287
 

1992 SL1
1998 SC2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

He must be thinking of the rod bearings.

...
92 SL1 original owner
94 SL2 Homecoming
98 SC2 White Hot
02 SC2

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to blue92's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help blue92 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
blue92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 03:45 PM   #7
DogOfDeath
New Member
DogOfDeath is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Yes I am planning on changing the rod bearings. I figured that won was pretty straight forward and forgot to mention it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DogOfDeath's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DogOfDeath reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DogOfDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 05:35 PM   #8
AlexofNazareth
Master Member
AlexofNazareth will become famous soon enough
 
AlexofNazareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ann Arbor MI
Posts: 2,531

2002 SL1
2006 VUE Red Line
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

You can change the rod bearings in the car, that's a given. But you'll need to pull the motor from the transmission, unbolt the flywheel, rear main seal, and timing cover in order drop the crank and get to the crank bearings.

...
'02 SL1 [w/ a snail-shaped muffler]
'06 Vue RL
Saturn Night is Special ED.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to AlexofNazareth's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help AlexofNazareth reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
AlexofNazareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 06:31 PM   #9
bachands
Advanced Member
bachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southeastern WI
Posts: 999
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

First of all, I do agree that removing the engine is the best way to replace the main bearings properly (and more easily). That being said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHeO1h3U4GE

It appears that there may be a couple special tools necessary as well as some modification since you will be upside down under the car. It's probably not a trivial task, and you will really have to trust the condition of the crank journals. But it's possible .

Also, I think instead of removing all the caps at one time and attempting to support the crank somehow, it would be better to do one bearing at a time while keeping the crank in place. But I don't know from experience, only from my reading and some logical thought.

I'd really like to know how difficult this would be. Please come back and let us know if you were successful or not.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to bachands's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help bachands reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
bachands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 09:27 AM   #10
blue92
Senior Member
blue92 will become famous soon enoughblue92 will become famous soon enough
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,287
 

1992 SL1
1998 SC2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

If you were going to go through all that trouble, you already have it stripped down to just a block with a crank. If you have an auto, it's 4 bolts on the bell housing and torque converter bolts, thats all that is stopping you from pulling the engine. It is so light, that you can lift it out by hand. (I have done it)

...
92 SL1 original owner
94 SL2 Homecoming
98 SC2 White Hot
02 SC2

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to blue92's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help blue92 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
blue92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 11:00 AM   #11
Highmile
Senior Member
Highmile will become famous soon enoughHighmile will become famous soon enough
 
Highmile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 1,167

1995 SL1
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

I did it pretty like you expected. I loosened the front and rear mains and then pulled all the ones in the middle.

I agree that pulling the motor is ideal but since I didn't have the head off and I need the car running asap I elected not to.

The hardest main to replace is the thrust bearing. I used a small screw driver on the ouside edge (thrust surface) and tapped it around. I'd suggest using a plastic scraper or other non scratching tool to push out the block side bearings. Once the centers were replaced, then I did the front and rear mains. Either way be super careful not to scratch the crank or block surfaces. The block being alum will scratch very easy and the scratch will create an area of raised mat'l that will cause issues with the new bearing.

Even with the rear main seal and the flywheel and clutch in my case the crank easily moved down enough to roll the old bearings out. I applied pressure to the end of the bearing shell and rotated the crankshaft at the same time. Bearing slid right around and out. Put the new ones in the same basic way except in reverse of course.

Highmile
'95 SL1 554k and counting

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Highmile's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Highmile reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Highmile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 11:33 AM   #12
bachands
Advanced Member
bachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to beholdbachands is a splendid one to behold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southeastern WI
Posts: 999
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue92 View Post
If you were going to go through all that trouble, you already have it stripped down to just a block with a crank. If you have an auto, it's 4 bolts on the bell housing and torque converter bolts, thats all that is stopping you from pulling the engine. It is so light, that you can lift it out by hand. (I have done it)
I'd love to see a video of this....not because I don't think it's possible, but because I'd like to see how it's done.

I know there'd be more steps compared to keeping the block in place: Removal of alternator, starter, all sensor and ground connections, water pump, etc. None of this has to be removed if the block is still in the car. But none of that is difficult either....just takes more time.

And I'm assuming the block and crank would be lifted out the top, correct? Once everything is disconnected, what is it resting on? And can the auto trans just be held up there on a jack or something?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to bachands's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help bachands reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
bachands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 07:28 PM   #13
DogOfDeath
New Member
DogOfDeath is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Post Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highmile View Post
I did it pretty like you expected. I loosened the front and rear mains and then pulled all the ones in the middle.

I agree that pulling the motor is ideal but since I didn't have the head off and I need the car running asap I elected not to.

The hardest main to replace is the thrust bearing. I used a small screw driver on the ouside edge (thrust surface) and tapped it around. I'd suggest using a plastic scraper or other non scratching tool to push out the block side bearings. Once the centers were replaced, then I did the front and rear mains. Either way be super careful not to scratch the crank or block surfaces. The block being alum will scratch very easy and the scratch will create an area of raised mat'l that will cause issues with the new bearing.

Even with the rear main seal and the flywheel and clutch in my case the crank easily moved down enough to roll the old bearings out. I applied pressure to the end of the bearing shell and rotated the crankshaft at the same time. Bearing slid right around and out. Put the new ones in the same basic way except in reverse of course.

Highmile
'95 SL1 554k and counting
Thanks Highmile for your advise and rundown on this. Much appreciated.
I am going to start the teardown this weekend and will take lots of pics and post them with a rundown of my work.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to DogOfDeath's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help DogOfDeath reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
DogOfDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 06:45 AM   #14
S-forever
Junior Member
S-forever is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 26

1997 SL2
1991 SL2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highmile View Post
I did it pretty like you expected. I loosened the front and rear mains and then pulled all the ones in the middle.

I agree that pulling the motor is ideal but since I didn't have the head off and I need the car running asap I elected not to.

The hardest main to replace is the thrust bearing. I used a small screw driver on the ouside edge (thrust surface) and tapped it around. I'd suggest using a plastic scraper or other non scratching tool to push out the block side bearings. Once the centers were replaced, then I did the front and rear mains. Either way be super careful not to scratch the crank or block surfaces. The block being alum will scratch very easy and the scratch will create an area of raised mat'l that will cause issues with the new bearing.

Even with the rear main seal and the flywheel and clutch in my case the crank easily moved down enough to roll the old bearings out. I applied pressure to the end of the bearing shell and rotated the crankshaft at the same time. Bearing slid right around and out. Put the new ones in the same basic way except in reverse of course.

Highmile
'95 SL1 554k and counting
I would think the easier way for removing(and replacing) the top half bearing would be to make a small tool out of a bolt or nail to fit in the crankshaft oil hole and catch the bearing shell(without touching the block) and turn the crank to remove the bearing. Just turn it in a way that doesn't go past the bearing key(indent). I've not done this job yet but have an SL2 with a bad lower end needing fixing.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to S-forever's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help S-forever reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
S-forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 09:44 AM   #15
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,634
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Keep in mind that if the bearings are noticeably bad that the crank condition is as well. You will find that if the crank is bad you will have to pull the engine or try and get the flywheel off with it in the car and I assure you pulling the engine is easier.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 03:47 PM   #16
onlinebiker
Advanced Member
onlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of lightonlinebiker is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: sw michigan
Posts: 755
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Use Plastigage to check clearances. By far the easiest way.

...
92 SC2
93 SC2
96 SC2
97 SL2
97 SC2
99 SC2
01 SC2
02 SC2
02 SL2
parts
2 94 SC2 parted out
2 96 SC2
98 SC2 - rusty frame minus engine.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to onlinebiker's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help onlinebiker reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
onlinebiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 04:16 PM   #17
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,634
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

If you do a bit of research you will find that actual clearance measurements show that plastigauge is unreliable.

You can tell by looking at the reflection of a bright monochromatic light on the shaft if it is OK or not likewise the bearings. A high tech LED light will do the trick. Hold the light at an angle to the shaft journal centerline not direct onto it.

In most cases if you think there is a lower end problem there will be no question when you start pulling bearing caps. Keep in mind the hanging the crank shaft and flywheel in the rear seal can easily destroy it.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 06:01 PM   #18
alordofchaos
Super Member
alordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud ofalordofchaos has much to be proud of
 
alordofchaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central MI
Posts: 12,631
 

2002 SC2
1998 SL2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

OP last checked in about four years ago, 2015. Never came back with the promised pics and rundown

...
I'm not worthy to grovel in the shadow of Signmaster's wisdom

11/2016 red 2002 5 spd SC2 141k DD
7/2010 Craigslist white 1997 SC2 project
12/2008 eBay silver 1998 SL2 5 spd 102k, now 201k+ miles

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to alordofchaos's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help alordofchaos reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
alordofchaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 06:05 PM   #19
OldNuc
Super Member
OldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond reputeOldNuc has a reputation beyond repute
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Far Southwestern Iowa
Posts: 66,634
 

1998 SC2
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

That is likely because when it was opened up the OP discovered the engine was trashed. Generally when the oil light comes on it is already way too late and same goes for knocking at idle. If you hear knocking you need a crank regrind or the knocking will be back near immediately.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to OldNuc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help OldNuc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
OldNuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 08:33 PM   #20
454cid
Member
454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough454cid is a jewel in the rough
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 141
Default Re: Main bearing swap while block remains in car

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
OP last checked in about four years ago, 2015. Never came back with the promised pics and rundown
This person recently commented on several very old threads.

...
2000 SL2 Automatic (back on the road) 17X,XXX miles.
1999 Chevy K3500

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 454cid's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 454cid reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
454cid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Main & Rod Bearing replacement? acamato S-Series Tech 24 08-03-2014 05:58 PM
Main Bearing Seal kp_fisher S-Series Tech 4 03-03-2012 06:49 PM
main bearing replacement questions ericfragola S-Series Tech 1 01-15-2012 10:56 PM
Is it possible - Main shaft bearing kickarse S-Series Tech 5 04-23-2005 01:36 AM
02 sc1 main bearing SKILLITER S-Series General 29 02-20-2005 10:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:17 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.