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Old 08-21-2019, 11:15 AM   #1
Tyson
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Default coolant overflow

Every once in a while my coolant will overflow out of surge tank. This morning I heard a weird noise from passenger side. So as I always do I checked under hood and watched my coolant build up in surge tank until it slowly leaked from under cap. Its a new cap . Also, I did replace water inlet and get air out of coolant system as far as i know. So does anyone have any ideas. Im wondering if its either the expansion tank hose, water pump, or God please not head gasket. Please help

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Old 08-21-2019, 12:14 PM   #2
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Default Re: coolant overflow

You can get a chemical test kit to check for Head gasket leak.

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Old 08-21-2019, 12:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: coolant overflow

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Originally Posted by Dsaturn View Post
You can get a chemical test kit to check for Head gasket leak.
Iím thinking itís the water pump. Because the coolant isnít being sucked back into radiator from surge tank

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Old 08-21-2019, 02:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Garages can do various non-invasive tests for head gaskets. Pressure and Leak Testing. It might be worth checking out that cost, rather than throwing parts at the problem.

on the suggestion that it could be the water pump, one question I would have is when was the timing belt last changed? The belt on the L series V6 should be changed at 100,000 mile intervals. It's an interference engine, so if the belt goes, then so does your engine.

Because the water pump is located where the timing belt is, it is usual to change all the bits & pieces there, timing belt, tensioner, idler pullet and water pump all at the same time. It's simple economics as you are in there (or the garage is), so you only incur one ste of labor charges. It's false economy not to do so.

So if you are unsure on when the timing belt was changed, err on the side of caution and do that whole job, including the water pump. Rock Auto shows the complete component kit ranging from $170.00 to $220.00.

I'd still be tempted to get it check out with pressure and leak tests, otherwise you are grasping at straws.

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Old 08-22-2019, 04:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Mileage? As mentioned, water pump and timing belt are recommended for replacement every 100k miles. Long lasting timing belts aren't guaranteed to last forever. Water pumps should be replaced at the same time because it's behind the timing cover and many things are in the way unless a person doesn't mind repeating parts removal for access to the water pump......

Personally, I doubt water pump failure and presume coolant isn't rusty with floating debris suggesting a poorly maintained cooling system. Flushing of the cooling system when antifreeze is replaced ensures corrosion free protection, guarantee against freezing and lubrication to pump. If the pump failed, several hints become obvious; coolant leaking from a worn water pump, coolant level dropping in the coolant container, engine overheating if it actually failed and the temperature gauge needle fluctuating wildly. A water pump failing to run simply allows the engine to overheat immediately as soon as a few minutes of driving begins. If a coolant overheat indicator exists, the indicator would turn on (usually a red lighted symbol) as the temperature gauge needle moves right to the red line. You haven't described any symptoms of a failing water pump or the temperature needle moving towards HOT. What you haven't mentioned and no one asked yet - did you replace coolant at any time and when coolant was drained, did you refill the system with water to run the engine, flushing itself before draining this water flush? Usually when flushing a cooling system, either the lower radiator hose is pulled or the drain cock is opened to allow coolant draining. When draining, water should flow out freely (coolant cap removed otherwise a vacuum is created, impeding the drain process). Removing the lower hose should allow coolant to drain out in less than a minute or two. Draining coolant completely shouldn't take more than five minutes. If the radiator is clogged, flushing may not help and contribute to higher operating temperatures. The best way to know what your engine operating temperature is other than knowing where the temperature needle always sits on a warm engine is with a reader. Most readers will display coolant temps. Your thermostat is rated for 195F so expect to see this temperature on a warm engine, give or take five degrees. This is with the engine cooling fan off unless you drove in hot and humid weather for 15 minutes or more/turned on ac. Above 200F would be cause for concern. If the radiator is plugged or clogged, a chemical flush with off the shelf stuff sold in auto stores may help. Worse case scenario is the radiator is clogged and may be the cause of coolant boiling up and forcing itself out the coolant container.

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Old 08-23-2019, 07:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Also when you had the leak did you add any coolant stopleak? That can cause blockages and create what fdryer said about a dirty system.

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Old 08-23-2019, 09:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: coolant overflow

FWIW, I don't think there's a head gasket problem here. In the following thread, http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=237808, the OP had stated that the engine temperature has remained normal. Hot exhaust gases entering the cooling system will heat it up leading to higher than normal temperature gauge readings at the dash console. I think that fdryer's suggestion regarding a cooling system flush is the most useful thing that could be done at this point to help resolve the problem of the coolant backing up into the tank.

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Old 08-23-2019, 09:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: coolant overflow

I hope I am not teaching Grandma to suck eggs, but in a closed, pressurized cooling system, the coolant temperature is controlled by the thermostat and exceeds the normal boiling point of water. Water boiling point is 212 degrees F. The operating temperature of your L series cooling system is between 194 to 223 degrees F. The expansion tank cap is spring loaded and is designed to be a safety valve with an opening pressure of 20 psi.

When you lose that pressure for whatever reason, the coolant will boil at water temperature. I think that is what you are seeing when you are hearing the gurgling on the Expansion Tank. it's the coolant boiling.

If your engine was running hot, then you would see that in your coolant temperature gauge and I presume that the gauge is showing Normal?

Possible causes could be a leak in the cooling system. A pressure test when the engine is cold will identify any leaks. A faulty tank cap will allow cold coolant to leak out and that would confirm your cap has failed. Check to make sure you have the correct cap with the correct release pressure first. If the system is testing OK for pressure leaks including the tank cap, then you need to dig deeper.

Your coolant flows is pumped via the water pump through various hoses throughout the engine and radiator and heater. The coolant in the engine is 'kept' in the engine until it has reached normal operating temperature, then the Tstat will open and allow the hot coolant to flow to the heater and radiator where it is cooled and then flows back through the entire system. Crucial to the overall flow is the powering of the water pump itself. A worn and stretched accessory belt or failed tensioner will mean the pump and other belt powered ancilaries will not work as effectively as they should. So check belt tension.

Anyone of those components can affect coolant flow. An old blocked radiator will slow flow and not cool the coolant down enough. Old hoses that may have collapsed internally can also slow or stop flow causing over heating. A stuck Tstat can either stick open and that means the engine takes longer to warm up or stick closed, in which case the coolant is held in the engine, again causing overheating. A worn water pump will simply not pump the coolant around the engine fast enough.

A water pump that is worn and failing will generally 'weep' under the pump housing through the weep hole or you will hear the strangling noise of a pump seizing and the belt struggling to turn it.

Here are a few things that you can do/ask yourself for free;

1) When was water pump/timing belt last changed?

2) When was Tstat last changed?

3) Physically feel all the hoses for any signs of failing or blocking -bulging, softness, etc. Check the cooling fans (2) are working as they should be.

4) You could hose out just the radiator by removing top & bottom hose and hosing plain water through. You can also do this with the whole cooling system. If you want you can remove the radiator and flush it out in both directions, so as to ensure any sediment at the bottom gets flushed out.

5) You can test the water pump operation by simply removing the top hose, starting and running the engine to check water flow. if it gushes, it's working.

6) Check your dipstick for coolant on it and check the coolant for any oil in it. Both signs of a failing/failed head gasket.

One thing I would highlight from my own experience is that my son's 2003 L300 began losing coolant and we could not trace it. In the end, there was a leak in the 'valley of the V6, which is where the Tstat resides. There is the Tstat housing and a long cross tube. Over time, the O rings and gaskets had failed. It was a fairly big task as the intake manifold has to come off and the parts list, including several intake manifold gaskets, etc, etc added up a to a fairly large garage bill. But try the free checks first.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by floridasl22002; 08-23-2019 at 10:06 AM..

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Old 08-23-2019, 06:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Mileage? As mentioned, water pump and timing belt are recommended for replacement every 100k miles. Long lasting timing belts aren't guaranteed to last forever. Water pumps should be replaced at the same time because it's behind the timing cover and many things are in the way unless a person doesn't mind repeating parts removal for access to the water pump......

Personally, I doubt water pump failure and presume coolant isn't rusty with floating debris suggesting a poorly maintained cooling system. Flushing of the cooling system when antifreeze is replaced ensures corrosion free protection, guarantee against freezing and lubrication to pump. If the pump failed, several hints become obvious; coolant leaking from a worn water pump, coolant level dropping in the coolant container, engine overheating if it actually failed and the temperature gauge needle fluctuating wildly. A water pump failing to run simply allows the engine to overheat immediately as soon as a few minutes of driving begins. If a coolant overheat indicator exists, the indicator would turn on (usually a red lighted symbol) as the temperature gauge needle moves right to the red line. You haven't described any symptoms of a failing water pump or the temperature needle moving towards HOT. What you haven't mentioned and no one asked yet - did you replace coolant at any time and when coolant was drained, did you refill the system with water to run the engine, flushing itself before draining this water flush? Usually when flushing a cooling system, either the lower radiator hose is pulled or the drain cock is opened to allow coolant draining. When draining, water should flow out freely (coolant cap removed otherwise a vacuum is created, impeding the drain process). Removing the lower hose should allow coolant to drain out in less than a minute or two. Draining coolant completely shouldn't take more than five minutes. If the radiator is clogged, flushing may not help and contribute to higher operating temperatures. The best way to know what your engine operating temperature is other than knowing where the temperature needle always sits on a warm engine is with a reader. Most readers will display coolant temps. Your thermostat is rated for 195F so expect to see this temperature on a warm engine, give or take five degrees. This is with the engine cooling fan off unless you drove in hot and humid weather for 15 minutes or more/turned on ac. Above 200F would be cause for concern. If the radiator is plugged or clogged, a chemical flush with off the shelf stuff sold in auto stores may help. Worse case scenario is the radiator is clogged and may be the cause of coolant boiling up and forcing itself out the coolant container.

My gosh, some of these people are way too much for me. Thatís why I always come back to you. Look, as you know I replaced that water inlet unit. My problem start there. Yesterday, I ran in somewhere for 10 minutes, come out and coolant is coming out of it again. However, the day before is when my expansion tank overflowed. When I say overflow I got out of my car because I heard a weird gurgling from passenger side. Never heard it before. So I lifted the hood and watched the coolant rise in the expansion tank until it seeped out under cap. So today I flushed it out. I donít know what to do. That damn water inlet unit is a problem. Iím thinking maybe some air was trapped in the radiator and finally made its way up. But, thatís a long shot considering I havenít had a problem since I put jb weld epoxy on the top of water inlet unit where the small seeping was coming from. This is the strangest thing Iíve ever seen. I have a water pump coming. Do you think I should go ahead and put coolant in , purge it and drive it a couple days? Or put water pump on?

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Old 08-23-2019, 06:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierrot View Post
FWIW, I don't think there's a head gasket problem here. In the following thread, http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=237808, the OP had stated that the engine temperature has remained normal. Hot exhaust gases entering the cooling system will heat it up leading to higher than normal temperature gauge readings at the dash console. I think that fdryer's suggestion regarding a cooling system flush is the most useful thing that could be done at this point to help resolve the problem of the coolant backing up into the tank.

You know I like your advice . Thatís why I always read your threads on this site. I want to tell you whatís going on and tell me what you think. Yesterday I left my car running for 10 minutes as I ran in a store. I came out and coolant was leaking from where I just replaced the water inlet unit a few weeks ago. I was having problems getting a good seal on that, so I jb welded it with epoxy. It was good up until the day before yesterday when I got home I heard a gurgling type sound from passenger side, I think. Thatís what makes me think itís water pump. Anyways, I got out lifted the hood and my coolant in expansion tank was rising until it seeped out under the cap. Which is brand new. Iím baffled. I donít know if water pump isnít circulating properly causing pressure to build. Or if that water inlet unit is causing problems. I replaced it once a month ago. But it wouldnít seal. So I got another one and itís not sealing properly either. I tried gasket maker and sealant but I donít want it on the o ring because it might effect its job. I donít know what to do? Help me!

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Old 08-23-2019, 10:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Can you video when coolant rises and flows out the coolant container? Maybe start the video with a cold engine, make a remark and show the temperature needle on cold, pan the engine and stop to view the inlet then pause, get the engine to warm temps when you know coolant will boil out the container, restart video so it shows the container level rise above the high mark and flow out, moving back towards the inlet again. A short video to show a cold engine idling with coolant level at its cold mark, pausing until the engine is warm enough to continue videoing when coolant expands in the container and flows out. Put the video on YouTube and post a link so everyone interested can view what you're experiencing.

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Old 08-24-2019, 10:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Quote "My gosh, some of these people are way too much for me."

Always appreciate positive comments from folks trying to help other members.

I'm out of here and other future threads posted by Tyson.

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Old 08-24-2019, 11:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: coolant overflow

First of all, I think that creating a video as fdryer has suggested would be extremely helpful to those of us out here in the hinterlands of the virtual world hundreds or thousands of miles away from you. If at all possible this needs to be done.
Quote:
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...I want to tell you whatís going on and tell me what you think. Yesterday I left my car running for 10 minutes as I ran in a store. I came out and coolant was leaking from where I just replaced the water inlet unit a few weeks ago. I was having problems getting a good seal on that, so I jb welded it with epoxy. It was good up until the day before yesterday when I got home I heard a gurgling type sound from passenger side, I think.
I'm unfamiliar with this inlet on the V6. I'm only aware of that fact your engine provides many more challenges than mine does in various instances. If there is a leak from that location then it has little or nothing to do with the coolant back up you're experiencing. The inlet merely allows fluid to pass through it - nothing more.

Quote:
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when I got home I heard a gurgling type sound from passenger side, I think. Thatís what makes me think itís water pump. Anyways, I got out lifted the hood and my coolant in expansion tank was rising until it seeped out under the cap. Which is brand new. Iím baffled.
The cap is supposed to release the coolant mixture if pressure within the system is becoming too great which IS what has happened here. In my view then, the cap is working correctly. If you have a long-shank (as in 24" or more) screwdriver of some kind you can use it to listen for where the gurgling sound is originating from, or purchase an automotive stethoscope (made by Lisle), by placing its tip on the spot you think the noise is and putting your ear to the handle. That will help you pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

A water pump merely pushes coolant through the engine and the exterior cooling system parts. It's already been mentioned that water pump failures are typically due to leaks or a bearing failure which makes a grinding noise. On rare occasions I've seen the impeller come off of the shaft, but again it's RARE. Based on your descriptions to date it is not clear to me that you have a water pump that's gone bad.
Quote:
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I donít know if water pump isnít circulating properly causing pressure to build. Or if that water inlet unit is causing problems. I replaced it once a month ago. But it wouldnít seal.
A water pump merely pushes coolant through the engine and the exterior cooling system parts. It's already been mentioned that water pump failures are typically due to leaks or a bearing failure which makes a grinding noise. On rare occasions I've seen the impeller come off of the shaft, but again it's RARE. Based on your descriptions to date it is not clear to me that you have a water pump that's gone bad. The inlet will either have a leak or will be sealed so in and of itself it cannot cause a pressure increase in the cooling system.

Quote:
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So I got another one and itís not sealing properly either. I tried gasket maker and sealant but I donít want it on the o ring because it might effect its job. I donít know what to do? Help me!
Don't confuse the inlet sealing problem with the cooling system's back up problem - they are separate in my view. Resolve the back up problem first as this is a far more serious concern.

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Old 08-27-2019, 06:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: coolant overflow

Tyson, what progress has there been (even if it was small)?

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