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Old 05-23-2019, 02:08 PM   #21
poorboy
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Quote:
Originally Posted by billr View Post
I'm in the group saying the pictures look grossly wrong; like there is no pad at all in there. I know, you put them on "both sides"... does that mean both sides of the rotor or both sides of the car?
Are you sure the rotors are correct part#? It's been a while since I have seen a saturn rotor, but the hat part looks big.

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Old 05-23-2019, 04:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Was the caliper bracket ever removed from the knuckle while doing that brake/bearing job?

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Old 05-23-2019, 08:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

I'm with billr, where is the inside pad? There looks to be Zero room between the rotor backside and the caliper piston, snug flat between the rotor & caliper.......

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Old 05-23-2019, 08:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Actually, I'm backing away from any consideration of the pads or caliper. I wasn't grasping before that it is the bracket that is rubbing; and that is all we have seen pictures of. The caliper/pad area is not visible in those pix. Clearance of the bracket would not be affected by the pads, caliper, or how the caliper slides. If the OP will confirm the bracket wasn't removed, then we are down to either the rotor is wrong, the hub is wrong (again, was it changed? or the bearing/installation is wrong. I think the rotor and hub have to come off for comparison to the old (or other side) and the bearing installation inspected.

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Old 05-23-2019, 10:12 PM   #25
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Quote:
Originally Posted by poorboy View Post
Are you sure the rotors are correct part#? It's been a while since I have seen a saturn rotor, but the hat part looks big.
I was thinking the same thing.

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Old 05-23-2019, 10:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Check the part number on the box against the manufacturers catalog dimensions. That does not look like the correct rotor. Go to RockAuto and look at the dimensions for a Centric rotor. Any Saturn as they are all the same.

This is it.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:11 AM   #27
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

First, Thanks to all you guys for weighing in. Lots of stuff to check.

I removed the knuckle last night. I had been thinking along the lines of a botched bearing install, mainly guessing I didn't get the snap ring seated and it popped out allowing the bearing to move. I cannot find evidence of that. The snap ring is in place correctly. It hasn't been asked, but I borrowed a bearing press to seat it.

Before I removed the knuckle, I measured between the edge of the hub and the rotor on both sides. The passenger side is 1/8" more than the driver side which I'm guessing is allowing the passenger side rotor to rub. I attached a pic to show the measurement I'm talking about.

To answer all the questions.

I did remove the caliper bracket from the knuckle. It made it easier in the press I used.

The hub is the original.

The rotor matches the part number and the measurements match the numbers in Oldnuc's attachment. I also compared it to the old one. They both measured the same.

When I cleaned the holes for the pins, they were both amazingly clean already.

I did not flush the brake system. I did bleed it this time on the driver side when I replaced the caliper. Could air possibly have gotten from one side to the other?
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:22 AM   #28
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

I'm not sure what you're trying to measure but what you've got pictured with the measuring tape has no impact on the knuckle to hub face measurement (ie: hub/bearing fully installed). About the only "useful" thing you can measure at that place is how long the lug studs are.

Set the rotor on a flat solid surface hub side up, measure from the surface to the top of the hub. This is the rotor "height", if it's out of spec high it will rub on the inside of the bracket.

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Old 05-24-2019, 11:51 AM   #29
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Problem is not AIR. Measure the actual disk thickness. Exactly what brand are those rotors? Who did you buy them from. Saturn rotors are symmetrical and 18mm thick new.
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Old 05-24-2019, 11:52 AM   #30
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Either the rotor dimension is incorrect or the wheel bearing is incorrect or not fully seated, pick one.

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Old 05-24-2019, 01:06 PM   #31
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

beaverplt, is that rotor a correct replacement? Unless its obvious, is the rotor an incorrect replacement part? Other than diameter, rotor thickness and the top hat dimension (offset) may two areas to examine. The top hat is describing the hub portion of rotor fitting over wheel hub - the distance between rotor surface and drilled holes surface. If this dimension is incorrect, longer than your original rotor, this may be the source of the problem. Measure both old and new rotor top hat offset. Top hat dimensions should be exactly the same.
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Old 05-24-2019, 01:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Well, I'm going to disagree (surprised?). You need to measure from the inside hub-surface of the rotor to the inside friction surface of the rotor. That, alone, determines the clearance where the rotor is rubbing. Neither the rotor thickness or that outer dimension to where the wheel mounts matter.

(I do agree that the measurement shown with the tape is meaningless for the present issue.)

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Old 05-24-2019, 02:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

I edited that drawing for simplicity to prevent making it difficult from actual inside dimensions used for offset measurement. Hopefully something is revealed as to this dilemma.

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Old 05-24-2019, 04:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

The dimension the OP needs isn't shown directly on any of the diagrams posted.

I'll call it "D" for rotor depth, and "D" = "rotor width" + "offset" - "face thickness". I'm trying to show the OP how to measure "D" directly, without the math and tolerance stack-up of using the other three dimensions to derive "D"

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Old 05-25-2019, 09:24 AM   #35
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

What I was trying to show with that measurement was that the distance from the outer edge of the rotor to the end of the hub. It is different on the driver side from the pass side. It's as though the hub on the passenger side is pushed too far into the bearing. To me that would indicate the bearing is not seated properly or it's the wrong bearing. Probably the only way to check that is to push the hub out and inspect/measure the bearing.
I'm going to remove the driver side knuckle so I can put the two knuckles side by side. Maybe then I'll have my "DUH" moment.

I'm dismissing the wrong rotor possibility for now. I measured them again and they both match the measurements on Rockauto's info page and Oldnuc's attachment. Considering they are both the same I would think I would have the same problem on both sides.
The rotors are Raybestos part 56169R purchased from Rockauto.

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Old 05-25-2019, 10:48 AM   #36
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

If the rotors match then the bearing is not seated properly and the snap ring is not installed or it is the incorrect bearing. Where did the bearing come from and who installed it? There is no way to press the hub in too far unless the bearing is incorrect or improperly installed.

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Old 05-25-2019, 12:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Did you measure that inside depth that I suggested, is it the same on the new rotor as all the others? It should be 36+/-.1 mm new.

What diagram/drawing were you using to check the dimension numbers? I think only two drawings have been posted here so far; one has no dimensions, and the other (the Centric from RA) is obviously wrong. Did you notice that the Centric one is for a .43" thick non-vented disk? Look in RA for the Brembo #27148 for a correct drawing.

Oops, my mistake. There was a third drawing posted. It looks like it is probably correct, but doesn't show either that depth or the "face thickness" needed to derive the depth; so it is also useless for your purposes.

Use your common sense here. When you put the washers in there to "fix" it temporarily, the only thing you were changing is that inside depth dimension, correct?

Last edited by billr; 05-25-2019 at 12:13 PM..

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Old 05-25-2019, 03:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Rubbing on the one rotor only not both sides?

Down and dirty...swap the rotors side to side to see if the problem follows the rotors or stays on the one side.

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Old 05-25-2019, 08:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

^^^ +1

There you go! I'm just embarrassed that I didn't think of doing that.

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Old 05-25-2019, 08:55 PM   #40
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Default Re: An interesting brake rotor conundrum

Didn't the OP say he put his old rotors back on and had the same issue?

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