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Old 01-26-2018, 03:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

that1man, some facts you need to know. Your ecotec engine is used in several GM models and whatever issues the ecotec engines have are already known in many car forums. There are two timing chains, the main one connecting the crankshaft to the overhead camshafts for mechanical engine timing and a second timing chain used to drive counter balance shafts and water pump. The balance shafts give 4 cyl engines more smoothness compared to engines without balance shafts. This chain drives the water pump and requires a tool to hold the chain up while replacement the water pump. While this thread has been running for five months and your engine isn't ruined yet, maybe some help from you can help members here see your predicament.

Are you familiar with posting videos, YouTube or other places, or images? If you can post images of coolant in oil or oil in coolant, pictures can show the extent of contamination and whether or not it's serious for repairs. Whether using digital camera or cellphone, images are several megabytes too large for attachments here as thumb nails. You'd have to resize images to around a megabyte and convert them to jpeg format. Use whatever image program your familiar with. Most have the capability to change image formats and resize them. And please review your images in full size before posting. Some here think their pics are great but turn out completely fuzzy because they didn't review them on their computers for full size images too see how terrible snapshots can be.

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Old 01-26-2018, 05:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

fdryer has the right idea. If you can post pictures here, or post a video at YouTube that would be a tremendous help. If you're not sure about how to upload pictures or videos then find a friend who can direct you into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
I took my car to a shop to get it diagnosed today, again (not by same person). The guy told me it wouldn't be in my best interest to repair it but it was up to me. Mentioned water in the engine/oil but i told him what the last guy told me as far as that. He said best case scenario $2000 would be the cost. Worst case, 3 to $5000! He said it could be the head gasket or the engine block. Would the engine block be more to repair/replace? I'm thinking yea..
Judging from your description of what this mechanic said, he thinks the engine is bad: perhaps a bad head gasket or a cracked engine block. If you search these forums which discuss ECOTEC 2.2L engines (ION, L-Series, and VUE), you would find little or no mention of cracked engine blocks. While not impossible, it's generally a less likely concern. What I don't understand is, that when he saw condensation/water present in the oil, why did he not automatically perform a test on the cooling system to determine if exhaust gases were present? Knowing that you have a heating problem, and he suspects a possible bad head gasket, this should have been done. That could've confirmed a blown head gasket. Did he not know of your over heating concern?

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
The other guy said $700 for the water pump and head gasket. The guy from today said i might want to get a new car. Also mention over 600 to replace the throttling censor. At the end ove the day he said he really didn't know why the oil had water in it but it would cost 1000 dollars to tear things apart and find out exactly what was wrong
Based on what you're telling us here, I'm not happy with the way you're being advised by these mechanics and the manner of their diagnostic investigations. If this second mechanic is correct then it may be best for you not to repair this car, but replace it instead. Nevertheless, I run into the problem of not having adequate information. Restating fdryer's point, if we had more information from you then it would help us to provide better suggestions and opinions about this matter.

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Originally Posted by that1man View Post
What would you guys do. My credit isn't looking pretty at the moment so i dont know how hard it will be to get a new car, especially if I can't find a cosigner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
I read another thread where a guy out a lot ove money into his ion and a short while later it threw a rod. Should i take a chance with paying 700? Would you?
Related to the above two quotes: until a better understanding of your whole repair situation can be had, I don't believe that I can give you a thoughtful response.

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Old 01-30-2018, 11:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Sounds like you've been driving it after being advised not to with a possible water pump/ pully/ belt problem that turned into an overheating problem due to that. The overheating may have caused the head gasket to let go or cracked or warped the head which can explain the water in the oil. Or is the water pump got bad that would put water in the oil. If you've been driving it with water in the oil then the bearings and rings are getting severe damage. At this point without a tear down or major testing you will be throwing money at it for no reason without someone finding out exactly what happened and how much damage has been done. And no offense to ppl that advertise on craigslist but for the future ask people you trust for a mechanic they trust.

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Old 01-31-2018, 11:21 PM   #24
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Heart Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

I have a 04 Ion 2.2 ecotec automatic with 220,000 miles. My timing chain started rattling (making noises) at around 190,000 miles in the dead of winter and turned out to be a broken timing chain guide which are made of plastic. I went ahead and had a new timing chain kit installed with the new updated timing chain oiler and a balance shaft chain installed (might as well since you are in there ) however when you take the timing chain off the water pump runs off the timing chain and is a pain in the a*s to acess, so given my high miles and my water pump had never been replaced I had a new water pump installed along with a new thermostat. It was costly but I did not want to pay to have that job done again if the water pump ever failed because its about the same amount of labor hours to change because you have to remove the timing chain to remove the water pump unless you have a special tool for the water pump. Basically you might as well change it all out at these kinds of milages or if you are unsure of service history. Water pumps or timing chains are not easy to get too on this engine so I would pay to have a profesional do the job correctly.

Always start the car and test at time of pick up before you pay the mechanic with this type of job.

Last edited by ddemier7; 01-31-2018 at 11:26 PM..

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Old 02-02-2018, 11:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

ddemier7, are our engines the exact same, do you know. Im thinking to have the water pump and chain replaced first to see if that fixes anything as far as AC. Also, I read in another thread that you dont "need" the special tool too replace the water pump but it takes longer?

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Old 02-02-2018, 01:27 PM   #26
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
ddemier7, are our engines the exact same, do you know. Im thinking to have the water pump and chain replaced first to see if that fixes anything as far as AC. Also, I read in another thread that you dont "need" the special tool too replace the water pump but it takes longer?
The water pump and timing chain will not affect your air conditioning. You need to confirm whether or not your radiator fan is running when it should be. It is not normal for it to cycle on and off frequently like you previously described. Your air conditioning will only produce cold air while driving at highway speeds if the radiator fan is not working. The Ion's radiator fan motor does commonly fail so it is very possible that yours is bad.

The special tool is required unless you want the afternoon job to become a weekend project. The tool holds the balance chain sprocket in place when replacing the water pump. Without it the balance chain tensioner will tighten up when replacing the water pump which subsequently causes a loud whining sound while the engine is running. Removal of the timing cover and resetting the balance chain tensioner is required to correct the problem.

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Old 02-02-2018, 05:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruley73 View Post
...The tool holds the balance chain sprocket in place when replacing the water pump. Without it the balance chain tensioner will tighten up when replacing the water pump which subsequently causes a loud whining sound while the engine is running.
Well, yes, but what happens before that would be this:

1) removal of the water pump without use of the water pump sprocket holder tool would be that the balance shaft chain would come completely loose;
2) it would likely also result in the balance shafts losing their timing;
3) these events would occur before the dreaded tensioner concern. (That's bad enough on its own.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ruley73 View Post
Removal of the timing cover and resetting the balance chain tensioner is required to correct the problem.
Exactly.

...
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Gov't's grown bigger, but a chance exists that it will be reduced. I'm cautiously hopeful.

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Old 02-02-2018, 07:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Should be the same engine.

All this being discussed has nothing to do with A/C system.

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Old 02-03-2018, 05:53 AM   #29
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

So i had my oil changed on the 18th of December last year and i don't know if I mentioned that the ruff start and cold start noise (that eventually goes away after the engine heats up while driving for a while) goes almost completely away. It gradually comes back maybe weeks later. Today i checked my oil and and it seemed there was none, at least according to the dip stick, so i put a quart in. I asked the guy where he thinks the oil went so fast and he said " Burning through the exhaust. Head gasket Def bad". I'm gonna be keeping an eye on the oil level see if it changes color. Its dark as of now

Any way I'm gonna take it to one more shop. The guy said he would hook it up to a computer.

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Old 02-03-2018, 12:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
So i had my oil changed on the 18th of December last year and i don't know if I mentioned that the ruff start and cold start noise (that eventually goes away after the engine heats up while driving for a while) goes almost completely away. It gradually comes back maybe weeks later. Today i checked my oil and and it seemed there was none, at least according to the dip stick, so i put a quart in. I asked the guy where he thinks the oil went so fast and he said " Burning through the exhaust. Head gasket Def bad". I'm gonna be keeping an eye on the oil level see if it changes color. Its dark as of now

Any way I'm gonna take it to one more shop. The guy said he would hook it up to a computer.
What was the oil level after you added the quart? I wouldn't jump to any conclusions just yet. For all you know at this point, the place that did the oil change could have shorted you a quart of oil. Check the oil level frequently, and keep a couple extra quarts in the trunk. Check for external leaks. It's not impossible, but head gaskets very rarely fail in the 2.2L Ecotec engine.

If your oil consumption is in fact that severe, it seems odd that the last mechanic you took your car to didn't catch that the oil level was low. Lack of lubrication will definitely cause noise in an engine, and the oil dipstick is the first thing anyone with an inkling of a mechanical aptitude checks on a noisy engine.

...
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Last edited by ruley73; 02-03-2018 at 12:54 PM..

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Old 02-04-2018, 12:38 AM   #31
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

The guy who last changed it said there was none in it or it was really low. When i out the quart in it the dip stick was pretty much at full from what i can tell. Earlier today i took a few drives and checked the oil and it seemed to go down a little (i think).

I attached pictures as suggested. Oil looked different when the guy who said its a bad head gasket pulled out the dip stick. Also uploaded image of coolant

Please let me know if the pics look horrible on your end
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7505.jpg (125.3 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 7500.jpg (151.3 KB, 15 views)

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Old 02-04-2018, 03:32 AM   #32
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

My 2004 Ion with 220,0000 miles uses some oil. Just monitor it often and add as needed. These engines are known for consuming some oil.

If you have a bad head gasket and coolant is mixing with oil it would look like chiclate milk. Color of your oil looks ok but level looks a tad low. Add as needed

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Old 02-05-2018, 11:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
The guy who last changed it said there was none in it or it was really low. When i out the quart in it the dip stick was pretty much at full from what i can tell.
I'm curious: when exactly were you told about this unusually low level of the oil relative to the last oil change? Was it prior to the oil change while the car was at the shop, or afterwards? If afterwards, how long afterwards were you informed of this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
Earlier today i took a few drives and checked the oil and it seemed to go down a little (i think).
Checking the crankcase oil level after shut down will typically reveal it to be 1/2 of a quart below what is actually in the engine. If you want an accurate reading of the oil level then check it prior to the first drive of the day, or after at least three hours have past since the engine was turned off. This item is well known regarding the ECOTEC 2.2L.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1man View Post
I attached pictures as suggested. Oil looked different when the guy who said its a bad head gasket pulled out the dip stick. Also uploaded image of coolant

Please let me know if the pics look horrible on your end
The pictures are fine. The antifreeze looks normal to me and the oil seems okay, too, but I wouldn't state that unequivocally. Since you're there with your car and we cannot be, please do the following: place some of that oil from the dipstick on your fingers. How does it feel? Does it seem like normal engine oil, or is it thin with a something of a watery feel to it?

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Old 02-09-2018, 12:29 AM   #34
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

I compared the engines oil to some oil that I had not opened and it seem to be the same thickness as far as I can tell. Also, Its about 75% on the dip stick

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Old 02-09-2018, 02:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Insofar as your oil is concerned, I'd say that it's fine. (The color seemed okay.) The engine's crankcase oil level is good. Great!

Since bottles replaced cans ages ago you can add any amount of oil to your engine whever you wish to do so. You don't have to wait until the oil level reaches a full quart low before adding some to it.

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Old 02-16-2018, 11:22 AM   #36
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Does this look like the bubbles the mechanic guy might have been referring to?

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Old 02-16-2018, 11:24 AM   #37
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Keep getting "page not found" error when trying to upload images

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Old 02-16-2018, 12:54 PM   #38
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Uploaded images on this site...

https://m.imgur.com/a/86Gqi

https://imgur.com/a/B6MY5

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Old 02-17-2018, 12:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

So, it turns out the fan ISN'T working as ot should. Seems it only starts turning when i give it a little push with a stick. As far as what i was "hearing" when i said the fan is going in and out more frequently than it should (what i think), i dont know what that is kicking in and out (compressor?).

Also, seems the a/c is fine! But, it only blows cold air when the "compressor" kicks in but only for a few seconds. When the compressor cuts back off (after about 3-4 seconds), then all i get is room temperature air. 15 or so seconds later the compressor cuts back on and the air gets cold... UNTIL I poke at the radiator fan with a stick.. then it spins and the a/c blows cold like it should, constantly.

From observing, the fan spins for as long as the car is running. After I cut the engine off and start back up it doesn't come on.

My questions are:

1. Is there another fan somewhere? May one responsible for my engine not overheating all this time?

2. How fast is the fan i mentioned (behind radiator) supposed to spin because although its spinning once i poke it, it seems pretty slow.

3. Is this easy to fix? A shop i went to yesterday said it would cost like $380 but if i could fix it myself and save i would rather do so.

4. (Edit) how often should it come on and off and should it run constantly? Seems to after i poke it

Thanks to all who responded in this thread. Greatly appreciated!

Last edited by that1man; 02-17-2018 at 12:45 PM..

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Old 02-17-2018, 12:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: 07 ion water pump replacement... timing chain also?

Just discovered that what sounds like the compressor kicking in and out seems to stay running once i give the radiator fan a little push, rather then cut off and on. Is the radiator supposed to stay constant?

Also, maybe im wrong about the fan going slow but im not sure as i don't deal with this type of thing like mechanics do

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