SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn Vue > Vue Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-15-2014, 07:38 PM   #81
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,439
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

I may be mistaken but the service manual does show the low temperature sensor mounted next to the txv (drawing below). And its shown in the wiring diagram. It may be a TSB I'm not aware of and removed from wiring.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ltps.jpg (195.7 KB, 76 views)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 07-16-2014, 07:35 AM   #82
Keico
Junior Member
Keico is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Keico, presuming you evacuated and recharged with the correct amount of refrigerant and have the cooling fan running (a must when a/c is running), below is a copy of your '05 Vue's temperature/pressure chart. I noticed a faint dye marker on one of the scroll valve cover bolts. Hopefully, this was the only leak from a well used a/c system and fixed with new seals when the scroll valve was replaced? It pays to have and use a uv blacklight if you don't own one.
Thank you for the pdf

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Keico's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Keico reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Keico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 07:40 AM   #83
Keico
Junior Member
Keico is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Ok so I am just trying to get a understanding of this.

when I turn my AC on my fan should come on and run at a low speed. If not this could be a bad resistor.

I am referring to the giant fan mounted on my radiator.

Also as I stated earlier. I can see that the compressor is running and yet there is no cold air at idle.

Is there something that stops the refrigerant from circulating until I press the AC button

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Keico's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Keico reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Keico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 07:42 AM   #84
Keico
Junior Member
Keico is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Keico, presuming you evacuated and recharged with the correct amount of refrigerant and have the cooling fan running (a must when a/c is running), below is a copy of your '05 Vue's temperature/pressure chart. I noticed a faint dye marker on one of the scroll valve cover bolts. Hopefully, this was the only leak from a well used a/c system and fixed with new seals when the scroll valve was replaced? It pays to have and use a uv blacklight if you don't own one.
Yes I did replace the seal when I replaced the scroll valve

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Keico's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Keico reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Keico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 09:29 AM   #85
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,439
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

When a/c is ON, low speed fan (radiator) is on to maintain a constant air flow thru the condenser coil and radiator otherwise both overheat in local stop and go traffic. If the cooling fan doesn't run when a/c is turned on, the low speed resistor may be faulty.

When refilling the system, did you refill with 1.5 lbs (or 24 ozs) of R134a? What was observed on low and high pressure gauges? Inside vent temps?

While the loss of cooling occurs at idle and you replaced the scroll control valve, did you make any attempt to determine whether or not a leak occurred before replacing parts? This was the best opportunity to find out while not assuming the scroll valve and cover was the only leak. Even after replacing parts, when pulling a vacuum prior to refilling with refrigerant did you notice any vacuum leak after the pump was turned off to observe the vacuum gauge for needle movement? Are there any leaks now?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 12:22 PM   #86
Keico
Junior Member
Keico is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
When a/c is ON, low speed fan (radiator) is on to maintain a constant air flow thru the condenser coil and radiator otherwise both overheat in local stop and go traffic. If the cooling fan doesn't run when a/c is turned on, the low speed resistor may be faulty.

When refilling the system, did you refill with 1.5 lbs (or 24 ozs) of R134a? What was observed on low and high pressure gauges? Inside vent temps?

While the loss of cooling occurs at idle and you replaced the scroll control valve, did you make any attempt to determine whether or not a leak occurred before replacing parts? This was the best opportunity to find out while not assuming the scroll valve and cover was the only leak. Even after replacing parts, when pulling a vacuum prior to refilling with refrigerant did you notice any vacuum leak after the pump was turned off to observe the vacuum gauge for needle movement? Are there any leaks now?

There were no leaks. I left the vacuum applied for hours and it was constant

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Keico's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Keico reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Keico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 01:21 PM   #87
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,121
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
I may be mistaken but the service manual does show the low temperature sensor mounted next to the txv (drawing below). And its shown in the wiring diagram. It may be a TSB I'm not aware of and removed from wiring.
Actually I think you're right. It sits up next to the TXV. Its definitely not a part of the TXV itself (I have a couple sitting on my work bench as a reference).

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 01:22 PM   #88
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,121
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Might be time to close this thread and sticky it. If people have other A/C issues we should start a new thread.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2014, 05:14 PM   #89
Marz
Junior Member
Marz has a spectacular aura aboutMarz has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North DFW
Posts: 18
 

1995 SC2
Idea Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Thanks to everyone on this thread!

I have fixed the low idle issue on my '07 Vue with the relatively inexpensive and easy-ish scroll valve kit replacement!

I just wanted to add to the comments about the upper compressor bolts being a bear to remove. It's true, for me the two bolts closest to the pulley where relatively easy but the one at the top above the scroll valve cover was a pain job with my 13mm box end wrench(1/2 may work).

So here's my tip: IF you have an offset ratcheting wrench I believe it would speed up the work as there is not enough room for a socket. I have a set of straight gearwrenches but have miss placed the one I needed! Also try not to wait until the the temperature tops 101F.

Thanks for the excellent information!

...
1995 SC2 Purchased with 119985 miles

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to Marz's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help Marz reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
Marz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 01:46 AM   #90
aerial_22
Junior Member
aerial_22 has a spectacular aura aboutaerial_22 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 38

2007 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

I recently posted a reply in a thread I started over two years ago looking for help with the idle/low rpm cooling issue on the Saturn VUE. I have a 2007 VUE with the 2.2 liter engine. I reading through this thread it sounds like the Scroll Compressor Valve may be the answer to my issues. Is it confirmed that the part available at A/C Parts house for the 3.5 liter also works for the 2.2 liter? If so, can someone give me a pretty good procedure you went through to replace it? I guess worst case I can purchase the part and have a mechanic I trust install and then recharge my a/c system. This sounds like a much better and cheaper option than replacing the entire compressor. Thanks in advance! I am hoping this is finally a solution for my two year ordeal. That is two Texas summers I have burned up while sitting idle at the traffic lights, which in Austin is quite often.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to aerial_22's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help aerial_22 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
aerial_22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 08:49 PM   #91
aerial_22
Junior Member
aerial_22 has a spectacular aura aboutaerial_22 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 38

2007 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Well I received the scroll valve, spring, O-ring, and a small plastic piece that appears to be some sort of filter. To recap, I have a 2007 Saturn VUE with the 2.2 L engine. I have a friend who owns a transmission shop in town who is going to help me evacuate the R134a, replace the parts, and then recharge the system. Can someone provide any additional details such as how much R134a needs to be put back in the system, proper oil amount (assuming half an ounce since very little will be lost), and what the proper pressures should read at the low side and high side ports at both idle and with the engine above 2,000 rpm. Also, is the small plastic piece a filter that fits inside of the scroll valve. Anything else you think I may have missed? Many thanks!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to aerial_22's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help aerial_22 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
aerial_22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2014, 03:31 PM   #92
aerial_22
Junior Member
aerial_22 has a spectacular aura aboutaerial_22 has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Buda, TX
Posts: 38

2007 VUE 2.2L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

I wanted to take the time to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. Especially goose737700 who stumbled across this great solution to the low idle a/c issue. I ordered the replacement parts and had the repair completed last Friday. It immediately addressed the low idle a/c issue. I now how ice cold air in the Texas heat. Along with addressing the issue of warm air at idle, it also lowered the temperature of the air I was getting while moving by about 30 degrees. The day before replacement I was getting an average temp out of the center vent of around 55F with the air on high in re-circulation mode with the outdoor temp of 100F. After the repair I am now getting a temperature of 32F. Needless to say I am one happy camper! It's nice to be able to sit at a traffic light or in a parking lot without burning up. Many thanks to all!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to aerial_22's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help aerial_22 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
aerial_22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2014, 03:35 PM   #93
ionmy1
Member
ionmy1 is on a distinguished road
 
ionmy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Huntsville, AL/Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 147
 

2003 ION-1 Sedan
2004 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

I didn't see any mention of this here, but wanted to share the information in case someone was interested in this type of fix.

My scenario was that my compressor was leaking (not from the scroll valve plate) and it was decided it needed to be replaced. After replacement, I didn't have low idle/around town A/C. Took it back and the shop talked with their supplier for the new compressor. Apparently you can swap the scroll valve and spring around, putting the spring between the valve and the plate held on by 2 bolts, forcing the system to always run at full cooling. I only just had this done (and since the shop did it at the manufacturers recommendation, they said they would still back their warranty), but it was perfectly cold all the way back to work in stop and go traffic light traffic.

My initial thought was it would put a slightly bigger load on the engine, but it was still idling around 750 rpms. Perhaps it's programmed to keep it there, regardless of load?

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to ionmy1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help ionmy1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
ionmy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 02:58 PM   #94
foxbatonrg
Junior Member
foxbatonrg is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

All,

Just to add my 1cent (inflation got the other one) to this srcoll valve issue.

I changed the scroll pressure control vale on our 2005 Vue with the 3.5L engine yesterday. It was a very difficult operation on our Vue, in part, because of the tow bar base plate that blocks one of the frame openings under the compressor. Of course being 71 may have attributed to the difficulty. At any rate, after having the AC freon recovered, replacing the valve, evacuating the system for one hour, then waiting 4 hours to insure no leaks, I started to replace the R134A refrigerant. I added 2 twelve oz. cans, then started the Vue and checked the low side pressure. It was low, so I started adding the third can of R134A. It took the entire can. Checking the low side pressure at idle (~30 psi) and at 2000 rpm (~22 psi), the AC air temp out of the vents was extremely cold, don't have a thermometer to read the cold air temp. I couldn't find a high pressure tap to monitor the high side pressures.

Summary, many thanks to all on this forum for providing all the information on this repair. It certainly fixed our AC problems. Now for the questions.

1. If the freon can weights are correct, I have added 36 oz for freon to this system Does that makes sense? I was thinking the system called for 28 oz.
2. Are my low side pressures OK? They sound a bit low from what I have been reading.
3. Is there a high side pressure tap on this car, and if so, where would it be located.

Once again, thanks to all on this forum that have contributed so much to resolving this AC issues for so many of us.

Jim

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to foxbatonrg's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help foxbatonrg reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
foxbatonrg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 04:04 PM   #95
RobertGary1
Master Member
RobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of lightRobertGary1 is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 4,121
 

1996 SC2
2006 VUE 3.5L
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Just off the top of my head I believe the high side is right next to the coolant reservoir.

-Robert

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RobertGary1's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RobertGary1 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RobertGary1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 04:15 PM   #96
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,439
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Refrigerant and oil capacity are labeled in the engine area. Yours uses 1.75lbs or 28 ounces. A can is about 12ozs so two cans would be 24 ozs and adding about 1/3 to 1/2 of the third can is more than sufficient without over charging. This takes into account the small losses from can/hose disconnects. 36 ozs is 8ozs too much and will raise high side pressures higher than necessary for safe a/c operation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg hvac lines.jpg (223.2 KB, 49 views)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 12:00 PM   #97
foxbatonrg
Junior Member
foxbatonrg is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

RobertGary1,

Thanks for the reply. I found it right where you said it would be.

fdryer,

Thanks for your reply. The tap you show is the low pressure side. Thanks also for the specs on the amount of freon the system should hold. MY question now is with the low side pressure @ 2000 rpm, of 22 psi, is this OK, or am I still showing low on freon? Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Jim.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to foxbatonrg's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help foxbatonrg reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
foxbatonrg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 02:04 PM   #98
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,439
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

Are you sure of where the low side/high side ports are located? All vehicle a/c systems have two service ports, sized deliberately different to eliminate accidents from those unfamiliar with high pressure hazards. I copied the drawing directly from the service manual for replacing the high pressure lines where the high pressure port is found. The suction/low pressure side would be on the return line from the HVAC/firewall line going to the compressor.

See the chart below for expected temperatures and pressures against ambient humidity.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg '05 Vue HVAC.jpg (134.5 KB, 47 views)

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 04:30 PM   #99
foxbatonrg
Junior Member
foxbatonrg is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 11
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

fdryer,

Thanks for your quick reply. Yes I am positive of the low pressure tap. The one in the PIC you sent me is the low side pressure. RobertGary1 directed me to locate the high side pressure tap. After finding the high pressure tap, I hooked up both my low and high side pressure gauges, and ran the following tests.

Sitting parked in the sun, outside temperature ~ 95 degrees humidity ~ 65%, I started the engine, and recorded the following pressures at idle low side ~35 psi, high side ~ 200. With the engine running at ~ 2000 rpm low side pressure ~25 psi, high side pressure ~ 260..In both tests, AC duct air was extremely cold. If I read your chart correctly, low side pressure should be ~44 psi, with high side pressure ~ 224 psi. If I assume the chart is for idling rpm, I think it means I'm a bit low on freon. Am I doing that right, and if so, are my pressures OK?

Jim

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to foxbatonrg's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help foxbatonrg reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
foxbatonrg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 05:09 PM   #100
fdryer
Super Member
fdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond reputefdryer has a reputation beyond repute
 
fdryer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 42,439
 

2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default Re: Lo Idle AC mystery solved.

1-Please enlighten me as to where the high side port is located.

2-The temperature/pressure chart (provided) is used with idle rpm for Vues only. At 95F/65% humidity, low side should be between 30-44 psi, high side between 187-224 psi. Your observations of pressures seem to be right on target. Idle rpm measurements only. All other Saturns specify 2k rpm's. Vues use a different compressor (scroll valve) and when they work they're very good. All other Saturns to my knowledge use VDC's that require 2k rpm before recording operating pressures.

Please refrain from presuming low amounts of refrigerant. Over filling any system simply raises high side pressures and strains the compressor unnecessarily. 28 ozs, no more no less. Leave it as is and enjoy your repairs.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to fdryer's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help fdryer reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
fdryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Idle problem solved!!! Nicktheviperman S-Series Tech 19 02-03-2013 12:08 PM
I think I may have solved a mystery... XRL Vue Mods 27 07-04-2009 08:29 PM
Mystery stumble solved..Kinda Long eyewarts S-Series Tech 5 04-24-2008 09:14 AM
tire mystery solved! quiksc2 S-Series Mods 12 06-19-2007 06:34 AM
Idle issue solved RobertGary1 S-Series Tech 0 11-30-2005 01:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 AM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.